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I just have to share my experience with Kanna - a legal herb from Africa.  It has the longest recorded history of any other psychoactive herb.  It is considered an SSRI.  It has no recorded side effects.  There are no reports of withdrawal symptoms.  I have already cut my dose in half with no symptoms.  Kanna can be smoked (effects will be instantaneous), snorted (burns nose), or taken sublingually (this is how I take it).  I use a very small pinch of it under the tongue for about 15 minutes, I do not swallow my saliva, then I spit it out and rinse my mouth.  Things taken sublingually do not go through the g.i. tract.  Pharmaceutical antidepressants caused me to have IBS for 25 years!  I have no side-effects what-so-ever.  Kanna does not cause sexual side-effects either.

On the Kanna I believe I feel like normal (non-depressed) people.  I believe this based on listening to people.  I am a very spiritual person, but unmedicated I never FEEL the love, peace and joy that most people with my outlook and habits report feeling, e.g. I can "know" I have a lot to be grateful for, but I cannot FEEL gratitude.  Now that my serotonin levels are adequate, my 30 years of recovery work is coming to fruition in an experiential way - amazing!  I have created a good life during those 30 years, but I still could not enjoy it.  Now I can!

Since starting the Kanna I've come off of: 5-HTP, DHEA, Passion Flower, and Lemon Balm that I used to treat the depression and the insomnia it creates.  I'm also going to come off of Theanine and Doxilamine Succanate (an antihistamine used for sleep).  When I was on pharmaceutical anti-depressants I didn't need anything else for sleep, but I've been on a buttload of stuff these last 3 years since my g.i. tract couldn't handle the anti-depressants anymore.

I have been thinking about the chicken and the egg.  Why were my parents so troubled?  And their parents?  Could the genesis be untreated low-level depression that made life little more than a chore?  Can this kind of suffering create personality disorders?  I give myself a lot of credit for living such a functional life and helping/contributing to the world in a positive way even though I felt pretty miserable.  That's what 30 years of therapy had bought me.  Now I get the whole reward - enjoying life, FEELING happiness, peace, joy, gratitude, contentment, good-will.  WOW!!!

I haven't had a will to live as long as I can remember, at least 30 years.  I am not suicidal.  I am willing to live, but don't really want to and haven't most of my life.  I'd really like to fix this if possible and have been working at it.  I become healthier and my life becomes better in many ways, but I have no more of a will to live.  I know people who have suffered/are suffering more than I have/do and they have a will to live.

We've all been through *; most during our formative years.  I'm curious if there are others who are not suicidal but don't experience a will to live.

I'd also like to hear from people who have a will to live; can you describe what drives your will to live?

Holidays are often very challenging for me; I often spend them alone.  Normally spending a day alone would feel fine, but a holiday is so associated with family, and everyone is spending time with their families.  I actually enjoy time with my family now that my uNPM has passed away.  My Dad has Alzheimer's and is more cheerful and agreeable than he ever was; very benign these days.  My sister is sober after being an alcoholic for for 40 years - she's quite a good friend at this point.  I love my brother but he's hyper-religious (not allowed to have a self) so it's like he's there but not really there anymore.  With my uNPM being so angry and unpleasant, we all learned to connect with our spouses' families and spend time with them on the holidays.   Even though our Mom died in 2004, it seems like we all have learned to spend holidays elsewhere.  My brother wants to be with his church friends on the holidays and he has the only decent home for a group gathering.  So, it's hard, I'd like to see my family on holidays but it never happens anymore.  The day alone feels sad and I'm constantly aware of being jipped in the family department.  Being divorced with no children exacerbates it.

I imagine the holidays are difficult for many of us, so I thought having a "Holidays are Hard" thread could be helpful.

Two days ago I re-injured my left knee which means I'm in pain, can't walk stairs, run, or play.  One thing I'm aware of is that Cptsd has made it much more difficult for me to: feel good and have fun.  I think non-traumatized nervous systems can much more easily enjoy things, feel well, feel happy, have fun.  For me, I almost primarily feel those things through some form of athletic activity.  So having on-going issues with my knees is not only painful, disappointing, limiting and expensive - it feels like it takes away my access to fun, happiness, joy, healthy pleasure.

I'm doing my best to fend off the inevitable depression that descends whenever I experience another setback with my knees.  It's hard.  If I was able to experience fun, joy, etc. in non-athletic ways I could turn to those in these times.  I'm a freeze type so I certainly know how to lay in bed and vid out/numb out.  I want to stay present and continue living, but the wind has really been taken out of my sails and I'm in the doldrums. 

I have plans to be with a friend who I enjoy physical activities with  this afternoon, but I'm thinking of cancelling because being with him and not being able to do the things we enjoy doing together makes me feel sadder.  He's really my only available friend at this point so backing away from him doesn't feel great either.

This "knees" saga is going to last for awhile.  I have an appointment with a knee surgeon at the end of April.  I will be starting to work with a new physical therapist next Friday.  It's inevitable that I will continue to experience setbacks and disablements on the long road of knee surgery/rehabilitation.  I thought I'd start this thread so I can write to people who care and understand the pain of being disabled, of having what feels like limited access to joy/happiness, who know what it's like to feel extra-challenged in the living of life.  You all may get really weary of hearing about my on-going knee saga.  Still, it feels somewhat better to write about it. 

So few things feel enjoyable to me - all of them physical.  Feel free to share what makes you'all experience fun, joy that are non-athletic.  Thank you! 

I've been recovering for 30 years.  Here are some stats:
Have no one in my life who mistreats me.  Have work I enjoy and am good at.  Clean and sober.  Trim and fit.  Live in a beautiful, affordable place. Am respected and welcomed by everyone I know.

Here's the problem:  I feel SO unmotivated!!!  I continue to live out healthy habits, but I have to push myself every step of the way.  I don't WANT to do anything.  I have finally stopped chasing boys (at 56) and I am just being with myself, being mindful.  I am seeing that I have no enthusiasm, interest or motivation to do anything.  My mood is up and down - not too far up or too far down.  Even when it's up - I have to push myself to do anything and every thing.  Ugh!

Here's what I think I know about this:  My parents never appreciated life, work, the mundane.  They did what had to be done and then indulged in rest/food/cigarettes (mom) or sports (dad).  I see now that I have lived in a very similar way - do what you "have" to do so you can indulge in... boys/sex, sports.  My knees became unable to keep up with my sport in November and physical therapy did not help.  I can no longer be an athlete     As far as boys/sex, I have become very particular about who I'm with so it's mostly nobody.  Besides, I don't want to use anybody as an "antidepressant."  Apart from these "peak" experiences I see that I have no real interested in life, just like my parents, even after 30 years of strong recovery.

Early programming: seeing people as opportunities to have "fun" with or complain to.  Again, the mundane part of human relationships feels draining and uninteresting.  There are the highs of life, the peak experiences and then there is the rest - mundane, boring, uninspiring.  I've been trying to stop chasing the highs and just appreciate life, live in the moment, appreciate and enjoy simply living.  What I feel is a more intense awareness of just how unmotivating I find life - take a shower, do the dishes, work, etc.  Go meet (make smalltalk) with people.  None of it interests me at all.

With my knees going bad (I can't afford surgery) the peak experiences of my sport are no longer available to me.  Now what?  Regular life just doesn't interest me and I wish it did.  Should I try to pump myself full of antidepressants and hope they make me high enough to enjoy "life?"  I take supplements for depression now and I believe they are adequate at keeping a biochemical depression at bay.  But perhaps my screwed-up early programming has left me permanently unable to appreciate the mundane, routine aspects of life.

I am enormously disciplined when it comes to self-care and doing the right things - but it's exhausting to live this way.
Thanks for reading my words - I appreciate this forum and all of you 

My relational history is so convoluted: raised by 2 personality disordered parents, sibs messed up, bullied and excluded at school, two PD ex-husbands.  Now I'm single and middle-aged and I feel very lonely.  It's hard to "get out there" when most social venues are so loud and over-stimulating.  It's also hard to feel close to "normal" people who aren't dealing with Cptsd - my life is so small and sheltered compared to theirs - can't exactly share the victories of coming out of EFs and continuing to get better bit by bit.  I feel like I'm an alien - on a foreign planet yet I need to connect - to feel close to people - or at least to someone who will spend time with me on a consistent basis.

Sometimes I feel apathy and deep despair - I've led such a lonely life.  I got away from the crazy people early on, but it's left me with no one more often than not.  I think that a person can only provide so much to one's self: I have been my own mother, father, sister, brother, lover, therapist and doctor because the ones I've had were so toxic and/or incompetent.

I don't fit into any groups - I'm not an addict, etc.  I feel like I need what I didn't get as a child: attention, love, touch, validation, loving interaction.  Sometimes I feel like the orphan in the crib that's given up on ever being picked up.  Don't mean to sound so dramatic but since my divorce 3 years ago I feel very lonely indeed.  Most people hang out in families/couples.  Singles generally struggle, I know.  But to add Cptsd into the mix makes it even harder and more painful. 

Hello,

I have been working on my healing and recovery for 30 years.  A month ago I was diagnosed with CPTSD.  The diagnosis has helped to clarify a great deal – especially why my recovery has been such a long and complex process – and I am still not "there."

"There" for me is the tipping point in my recovery when life feels like it is "worth" living, i.e. less suffering and despair and more peace, joy, happiness and connection.  I don't remember having a will to live, but I am willing to live and curious just how far I can take my recovery and if I can actually get "there."

My stats are: mother BPD with Narcissistic features, dad Schizoid PD with Narcissistic features.  The "social skills" I was "taught" were atrocious.  I was the most hated kid in school – elementary through junior high.  The summer before high school I started smoking pot and when I got to high school the stoners let me "party" with them; it was an immense relief. (I was a stoner for 17 years)

First husband was a Sociopath, the second a Narcissist (left him after 2 months).  My third husband is a good man who has Asperger's.  We were married 18 years.  The lack of warmth, empathy and emotional availability was traumatizing for me throughout the marriage.  We ended our marriage 3 years ago.  It was devastating and tragic because we were great together in so many ways and he was willing to get help, but alas at his age his Asperger's prevented the necessary changes.  I was physically ill my entire marriage (I have a somatitization disorder).  Staying with him was literally killing me.  I divorced a good man who I love to save my life.  So now I find myself single at 55.

I have struggled financially my whole life.  I have been trying to recover for 30 years.  But I have only been able to afford therapy about 12 of those years.  I chewed the leather a lot when I was in desperate need of help but could not afford it.  I went through Bradshaw's book, "Homecoming" on my own about 23 years ago and it was the beginning of true self-acceptance, self-love and self-care.  That part of my recovery has been successful.  But I am still a deeply traumatized person.  I get triggered daily in small ways and often in significant ways.  I need a lot of down time to rest my nervous system and avoid stimuli.  My financial situation has recently stabilized a bit and that helps – financial trauma has been profound in my life.

The biggest piece for me right now is the need for deeper, more resonant connection with others.  I have friends, good-hearted people every one.  But they do not really understand what it's like to live life as a traumatized person.  I hope that being a part of this forum will help me to address this need.

Thank you for reading my intro – it's sad and complex but well intentioned – like me