it does make me chuckle and I thought there might be a few others here who relate and find it funny, too 
dark sense of humour may make a difference
dark sense of humour may make a difference
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#2
General Discussion / Video - "The Capacity to Give up on People"
November 01, 2019, 09:01:57 AM
Wasn't sure where to post this, so settled on this General Discussion part of the Child board because it illustrates quite well, both pictorially and in words, how the child mind translates abusive behaviour from care-givers.
It helps remind me and reinforce for me that my mind has been programmed to sell out on myself for the benefit of others who are toxic and that it is totally ok for me to WALK THE * AWAY from toxic people, family, friends or otherwise.
NC and LC are healthy, justifiable choices - I need to tell myself that a lot to quell the toxic shame and guilt.
Hope this is helpful for others, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKOY0ZTDPI
It helps remind me and reinforce for me that my mind has been programmed to sell out on myself for the benefit of others who are toxic and that it is totally ok for me to WALK THE * AWAY from toxic people, family, friends or otherwise.
NC and LC are healthy, justifiable choices - I need to tell myself that a lot to quell the toxic shame and guilt.
Hope this is helpful for others, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKOY0ZTDPI
#3
Web Sites, Support Groups & Organizations / Draft Manifesto for a Social Materialist Psychology of Distress
March 27, 2019, 09:08:54 AM
I was sent this today by someone I'd sent the Power Threat Meaning Framework info to. It's very similar in approach.
http://www.midpsy.org/draft_manifesto.htm
I've not finished reading through, yet, but I found the following section really good for pointing out some massive flaws in pop psych approaches and general cultural attitudes. I've highlighted the beginnings and ends of each paragraph as they strike me as succinct encapsulation of the main points.
"Distress is not the consequence of inner flaws or weaknesses. All mainstream approaches to 'therapy' locate the origin of psychological difficulty within the individual, usually as some kind of idiosyncracy of past experience. A morally neutral 'normality' may thus be seen as having become 'neurotically' distorted via, for example, unconscious personal desires or errors of personal judgment (e.g., over-generalization of negative experiences). Certainly this is the way we often experience our distress since such experience is inevitably interior. But experience and explanation are two very different things Professional therapy tends to presume that both the causes and the experience of distress are interior, since this affords the therapist a legitimate ground of intervention: individuals can be worked on in ways that social and material circumstances cannot. Individuals thus quickly learn to see themselves as in some way personally defective when in fact their troubled experience arises from a defective environment (Smail, 2005).
Neither is distress the consequence of cognitive errors, or failures to process information correctly. Those therapeutic approaches that do not attribute distress to some kind of personal emotional defect (however acquired) often point instead to 'cognitive' failure. The possibility that individuals, through no fault of their own, have drawn the wrong conclusions from unfortunate eventualities may at least have the advantage of absolving them from the odour of blame or personal shortcoming that tends often to waft around more 'psychodynamic' approaches. Again, this kind of view allows the therapist an apparently legitimate field of operation in re-working the person's cognitive processes. It does so, however, at the expense of a truly convincing account of human learning. There is, surely, enough evidence of what a distressing place the world can be for us to avoid the necessity of concluding that the distress we experience is somehow mistaken (Smail, 2001a; 2005).
So-called 'individual differences' in susceptibility to distress are largely the consequences of prior socialization. The fact that some of us seem to survive adverse experience unscathed while others are thrown into confusion or despair may be taken as pointing to 'interior', personal qualities: 'self-esteem', 'willpower', or most recently 'resilience'. However, it is far easier, and more credible, to point to the embodied advantages someone has acquired over time from the social/material environment than it is to postulate essentially mysterious and unanalysable personal qualities that originate from within. To mistake the gifts of providence for personal virtues is an all-too-common category-mistake, and one that psychotherapies do little to rectify."
http://www.midpsy.org/draft_manifesto.htm
I've not finished reading through, yet, but I found the following section really good for pointing out some massive flaws in pop psych approaches and general cultural attitudes. I've highlighted the beginnings and ends of each paragraph as they strike me as succinct encapsulation of the main points.
"Distress is not the consequence of inner flaws or weaknesses. All mainstream approaches to 'therapy' locate the origin of psychological difficulty within the individual, usually as some kind of idiosyncracy of past experience. A morally neutral 'normality' may thus be seen as having become 'neurotically' distorted via, for example, unconscious personal desires or errors of personal judgment (e.g., over-generalization of negative experiences). Certainly this is the way we often experience our distress since such experience is inevitably interior. But experience and explanation are two very different things Professional therapy tends to presume that both the causes and the experience of distress are interior, since this affords the therapist a legitimate ground of intervention: individuals can be worked on in ways that social and material circumstances cannot. Individuals thus quickly learn to see themselves as in some way personally defective when in fact their troubled experience arises from a defective environment (Smail, 2005).
Neither is distress the consequence of cognitive errors, or failures to process information correctly. Those therapeutic approaches that do not attribute distress to some kind of personal emotional defect (however acquired) often point instead to 'cognitive' failure. The possibility that individuals, through no fault of their own, have drawn the wrong conclusions from unfortunate eventualities may at least have the advantage of absolving them from the odour of blame or personal shortcoming that tends often to waft around more 'psychodynamic' approaches. Again, this kind of view allows the therapist an apparently legitimate field of operation in re-working the person's cognitive processes. It does so, however, at the expense of a truly convincing account of human learning. There is, surely, enough evidence of what a distressing place the world can be for us to avoid the necessity of concluding that the distress we experience is somehow mistaken (Smail, 2001a; 2005).
So-called 'individual differences' in susceptibility to distress are largely the consequences of prior socialization. The fact that some of us seem to survive adverse experience unscathed while others are thrown into confusion or despair may be taken as pointing to 'interior', personal qualities: 'self-esteem', 'willpower', or most recently 'resilience'. However, it is far easier, and more credible, to point to the embodied advantages someone has acquired over time from the social/material environment than it is to postulate essentially mysterious and unanalysable personal qualities that originate from within. To mistake the gifts of providence for personal virtues is an all-too-common category-mistake, and one that psychotherapies do little to rectify."
#4
Physical Issues / video - "How stored up traumatic (toxic) stress creates chronic illness"
March 20, 2019, 01:02:34 AM
I wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the resources area as I can see a fit with both ... here for now
a quick, to-the-point video by Irene Lyon (I think I came across her from someone else noting here) discussing the physiology of how traumatic stress disregulates the nervous system leading to chronic health conditions .... I appreciated both the brevity and how much it makes sense and thought others may find it useful too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0DSmN0bkPQ
a quick, to-the-point video by Irene Lyon (I think I came across her from someone else noting here) discussing the physiology of how traumatic stress disregulates the nervous system leading to chronic health conditions .... I appreciated both the brevity and how much it makes sense and thought others may find it useful too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0DSmN0bkPQ
#5
Announcements / Free online trauma healing training with Irene Lyons
March 02, 2019, 09:45:36 AM
Wasn't sure where I should post this, so I am putting it here and in Resources section .....
I actually don't know much about Irene Lyons and have only read a couple of articles by her, so I am not here promoting her work because I know a lot about it .......
BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free
I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09
maybe it will e helpful for someone
I actually don't know much about Irene Lyons and have only read a couple of articles by her, so I am not here promoting her work because I know a lot about it .......
BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free
I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09
maybe it will e helpful for someone
#6
Web Sites, Support Groups & Organizations / Free online trauma healing training with Irene Lyons
March 02, 2019, 09:43:55 AM
I actually don't know much about Irene Lyons and have only read a couple of articles by her, so I am not here promoting her work because I know a lot about it .......
BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free
I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09
BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free
I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09
#7
Recovery Journals / sj's journal
January 06, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
I actually just wrote something of my recent issues for another post, and then got panicky that it was too long and not appropriate for the main board. I started thinking it might be better as a journal entry, so here I am.... 
I've been wondering about starting a journal, but haven't known where to start. I read bits of other people's journals, but so far I feel a bit overwhelmed by them because I feel I've missed so much and want to go back, but can't read that much. I also feel a bit awkward about commenting when I feel like I'm coming in part way and don't know people well, yet. And now that I am actually starting my own journal thread I feel like it's a stupid idea and surprisingly confronted by it. It seemed like a good idea earlier, but now I feel stupid
Anyway.............
Before I begin properly, I want to say that I'm quite happy for people to share any relevant stories that may be prompted by anything I write - what I will call 'Appropriate Hijacking'. I'm also happy for people to pick out something that someone else has said and respond to that, a bit like more normal conversations when people bounce off each other. As long as it is essentially on topic, then I figure it is all potentially helpful and interesting and I welcome others input. I don't want people to feel overly concerned about hijacking, especially if it is all in response to a topic or idea raised. Hope that makes sense.
I've been wondering about starting a journal, but haven't known where to start. I read bits of other people's journals, but so far I feel a bit overwhelmed by them because I feel I've missed so much and want to go back, but can't read that much. I also feel a bit awkward about commenting when I feel like I'm coming in part way and don't know people well, yet. And now that I am actually starting my own journal thread I feel like it's a stupid idea and surprisingly confronted by it. It seemed like a good idea earlier, but now I feel stupid
Anyway.............
Before I begin properly, I want to say that I'm quite happy for people to share any relevant stories that may be prompted by anything I write - what I will call 'Appropriate Hijacking'. I'm also happy for people to pick out something that someone else has said and respond to that, a bit like more normal conversations when people bounce off each other. As long as it is essentially on topic, then I figure it is all potentially helpful and interesting and I welcome others input. I don't want people to feel overly concerned about hijacking, especially if it is all in response to a topic or idea raised. Hope that makes sense.
#8
Web Sites, Support Groups & Organizations / Power Threat Meaning Framework
January 03, 2019, 12:24:10 PM
I wasn't really sure where to place this, so perhaps it will need to be moved...?
I'm very interested in this framework, which I hope is both a sign of greater positive shifts in underlying attitudes and assumptions about mental health issues, as well as a catalyst for further shifts in this direction. I love that in this framework they tend to say 'people in distress' rather than emphasise mental illness and labels, which can be so limiting and stigmatising. Though they also leave room for labels as they acknowledge the benefit of those also. It seems genuinely flexible and inclusive in its approach.
The following link provides further links to the PDF of the the full framework, as well as one for a summary version.
https://www.bps.org.uk/news-and-policy/introducing-power-threat-meaning-framework
I often find it very difficult to read a lot of text, so I searched for videos and found the following one discussing it at the launch of the framework.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrAT7AZqsTU&t=0s&list=LLk7nu_itVEquCtqN1N-H-Rw&index=67
"The approach of the Framework is summarised in four questions that can apply to individuals, families or social groups:
What has happened to you? (How is power operating in your life?)
How did it affect you? (What kind of threats does this pose?)
What sense did you make of it? (What is the meaning of these situations and experiences to you?)
What did you have to do to survive? (What kinds of threat response are you using?)
Two further questions help us think about what skills and resources people might have and how they might pull all these ideas and responses together into a personal narrative or story:
What are your strengths? (What access to Power resources do you have?)
What is your story? (How does all this fit together?)"
This workshops info may be useful and/or of interest to members in Australia - http://www.blueknot.org.au/ptmworkshops
I'm very interested in this framework, which I hope is both a sign of greater positive shifts in underlying attitudes and assumptions about mental health issues, as well as a catalyst for further shifts in this direction. I love that in this framework they tend to say 'people in distress' rather than emphasise mental illness and labels, which can be so limiting and stigmatising. Though they also leave room for labels as they acknowledge the benefit of those also. It seems genuinely flexible and inclusive in its approach.
The following link provides further links to the PDF of the the full framework, as well as one for a summary version.
https://www.bps.org.uk/news-and-policy/introducing-power-threat-meaning-framework
I often find it very difficult to read a lot of text, so I searched for videos and found the following one discussing it at the launch of the framework.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrAT7AZqsTU&t=0s&list=LLk7nu_itVEquCtqN1N-H-Rw&index=67
"The approach of the Framework is summarised in four questions that can apply to individuals, families or social groups:
What has happened to you? (How is power operating in your life?)
How did it affect you? (What kind of threats does this pose?)
What sense did you make of it? (What is the meaning of these situations and experiences to you?)
What did you have to do to survive? (What kinds of threat response are you using?)
Two further questions help us think about what skills and resources people might have and how they might pull all these ideas and responses together into a personal narrative or story:
What are your strengths? (What access to Power resources do you have?)
What is your story? (How does all this fit together?)"
This workshops info may be useful and/or of interest to members in Australia - http://www.blueknot.org.au/ptmworkshops
#9
Family / Reading suggestions re: scapegoating, infantilising, NC/MC
July 10, 2018, 11:54:51 AM
hi
I'm wanting to read some more in-depth information about scapegoating by FOO - all the ways it can play out and the effects on the scapegoat (that'd be me). I want more than just overview articles which briefly describe it. I'm hoping to find something that really delves into it, particularly from the perspective of the scapegoated person. I want to read someone's experience and know they are dealing with the same emotional landscape I am, and to read about how they are navigating it.
Also, I'm keen to find some similarly personal, lived experience descriptions of the costs and benefits of choosing to go MC and NC. I am currently MC with both my (divorced) parents and younger sister, and NC with my younger brother (who is also NC with my F). I struggle so much with this no-man's-land of relationship and often wonder whether I should just go NC with them all and be done with it so I can just grieve who they can't be for me (ie; non-toxic, supportive family) to maybe (??) make it easier to achieve some form of 'moving on' with my (pretty compromised) life. I have debilitating chronic health issues, too, and my parents still both provide some financial support, which is a massive thing that keeps me connected, as I am too sick to work, and even the times I did I was only ever able to maintain part-time and casual hours.
For both of these areas I'd love to read comprehensive stories and outlines about the dynamics involved and how others have worked with them. If anyone can recommend any books or websites that really explore these themes in a through sort of manner, I'd really appreciate it.
cheers
sj
I'm wanting to read some more in-depth information about scapegoating by FOO - all the ways it can play out and the effects on the scapegoat (that'd be me). I want more than just overview articles which briefly describe it. I'm hoping to find something that really delves into it, particularly from the perspective of the scapegoated person. I want to read someone's experience and know they are dealing with the same emotional landscape I am, and to read about how they are navigating it.
Also, I'm keen to find some similarly personal, lived experience descriptions of the costs and benefits of choosing to go MC and NC. I am currently MC with both my (divorced) parents and younger sister, and NC with my younger brother (who is also NC with my F). I struggle so much with this no-man's-land of relationship and often wonder whether I should just go NC with them all and be done with it so I can just grieve who they can't be for me (ie; non-toxic, supportive family) to maybe (??) make it easier to achieve some form of 'moving on' with my (pretty compromised) life. I have debilitating chronic health issues, too, and my parents still both provide some financial support, which is a massive thing that keeps me connected, as I am too sick to work, and even the times I did I was only ever able to maintain part-time and casual hours.
For both of these areas I'd love to read comprehensive stories and outlines about the dynamics involved and how others have worked with them. If anyone can recommend any books or websites that really explore these themes in a through sort of manner, I'd really appreciate it.
cheers
sj
#10
Please Introduce Yourself Here / hullo
July 10, 2018, 11:14:04 AM
Hello to the members of this forum
I've now had 3 separate therapists say that they think I have CPTSD. I have only ever otherwise been dx with depression and anxiety, though I have a lot of stuff going on over the years that I never took to any medical or psychotherapeutic practitioners due to deep mistrust on my part. I also 'spiritualised' a lot of my experiences, which I would now describe, to some though not total degree, as attempts to normalise those experiences and give myself some sense of power and control over quite intense and overwhelming/out-there experiences (nb; I also don't completely dismiss this aspect either, as there is still some wisdom and sense and growth I've found in it all). I've also pretty much experienced the Failure to Thrive, thing, having never been able to maintain full-time study or employment for more than about a year at max since I left high school - I am now in my 40s (also living with chronic, debilitiating health issues since age 30). I have a mid-to high range ACE Score.
Anyway, the more I have come to look at CPTSD, in recent years, the more I am realising it covers all of what I have and continue to live with, so I have recently pretty much started to focus more on researching and understanding all the things related to both what causes this and how to try and recover from it.
I can't believe I have spent since age 16 (major dramatic event, tho abuse exposure started when I was in utero) actively working to try and 'heal' myself, yet always seemed to get dragged back down to Hades, no matter how hard I tried. Like trying to wrestle with ghosts. My life has been pretty much only this, and I have so much grief and rage about that. And still a lot of shame and self-blame I am trying to release.
I'll leave my intro at that.
All the best to everyone here and to whoever reads this.
sj
I've now had 3 separate therapists say that they think I have CPTSD. I have only ever otherwise been dx with depression and anxiety, though I have a lot of stuff going on over the years that I never took to any medical or psychotherapeutic practitioners due to deep mistrust on my part. I also 'spiritualised' a lot of my experiences, which I would now describe, to some though not total degree, as attempts to normalise those experiences and give myself some sense of power and control over quite intense and overwhelming/out-there experiences (nb; I also don't completely dismiss this aspect either, as there is still some wisdom and sense and growth I've found in it all). I've also pretty much experienced the Failure to Thrive, thing, having never been able to maintain full-time study or employment for more than about a year at max since I left high school - I am now in my 40s (also living with chronic, debilitiating health issues since age 30). I have a mid-to high range ACE Score.
Anyway, the more I have come to look at CPTSD, in recent years, the more I am realising it covers all of what I have and continue to live with, so I have recently pretty much started to focus more on researching and understanding all the things related to both what causes this and how to try and recover from it.
I can't believe I have spent since age 16 (major dramatic event, tho abuse exposure started when I was in utero) actively working to try and 'heal' myself, yet always seemed to get dragged back down to Hades, no matter how hard I tried. Like trying to wrestle with ghosts. My life has been pretty much only this, and I have so much grief and rage about that. And still a lot of shame and self-blame I am trying to release.
I'll leave my intro at that.
All the best to everyone here and to whoever reads this.
sj
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