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Messages - Kizzie

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Friends / Info/Resources
« on: October 21, 2019, 10:52:35 PM »

General Discussion / MOVED: Time to let go... Cptsd or bpd
« on: October 21, 2019, 10:49:37 PM »

General Discussion / Re: therapy vs. family
« on: October 21, 2019, 10:45:30 PM »
I am not using these as a means of getting out of something. I work very hard and I am a full time student. I take care of my family.

Really sorry to hear your H is not supportive Zeek, I'm sure that must hurt. It's important and healthy that you know it's not fair though, so many of us do accept the negative things people try to make us believe about ourselves.   :thumbup:  Also, good for coming here and sharing about this :grouphug:

Do you have any thoughts on what you might say or do when it comes to his behaviour?

Depression / Re: Information & Resources
« on: October 21, 2019, 10:33:57 AM »
A new theory on depression: It’s a disease caused by the body’s immune system, by Alexandra Shimo, Special to The Globe and Mail, October 2019. 

Now a new theory about the cause of depression has emerged: That it is a disease caused by the body’s immune system. The idea is that chronic stress causes hormonal dysregulation, and this leads to depression and other inflammatory disorders, such as arthritis, lupus, heart disease and even some forms of cancer.

Sorry things are so difficult for you right now, I can well imagine you are anxious.  Here to listen and support you  :grouphug:

Keep on listening to that  :sunny: voice, it's telling you the truth finally.   :grouphug:

I think we need to feel safe enough to say I am NOT okay including or especially in doctors' and therapists' offices. Unfortunately, we have learned to say we're okay when we're not because it helped us to survive, but also because little was known about CPTSD/RTR by professionals and/or the public.

The first barrier will require us to try to be more open about what we went through and what it left us struggling with, to say "No, I'm really NOT okay." It's just not easy because it goes against everything we learned and did to survive.  I do my level best to present as someone who has things together and giving up that persona/mask is quite difficult, but I am trying to do it more, a bit at a time. Having a "trauma tribe" makes that just a bit easier  :grouphug:

The second barrier means we have to do what we can when we can to raise awareness that CPTSD is now an official diagnosis (i.e., accepted into the WHO ICD-11).  If we're going to see a doctor or T we can take the info sheets, completed tracking forms for symptoms and comorbidities to appts from the Resource section, we can give family info sheets, and so on.  As I mentioned in an earlier post I also think we need to refer to work on being recognized as a distinct trauma group (relational trauma survivors), much like refugees, military, first responders, etc are when it comes to PTSD.

Bessel van der Kolk talks about the effort to have PTSD recognized (much like  what we're going through right now with Complex PTSD):

The story of how the diagnosis of PTSD came into being is a good example. Back in the late ’70s, it became increasing difficult to ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of Vietnam veterans were profoundly disturbed after coming back from the war. They sought treatment because they kept blowing up with rage, were unable to calm themselves down and go to sleep, and because they couldn’t feel fully alive in the present. Given the political and economic consequences of acknowledging the connection between the struggles these vets were having and their combat experience, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) tried to define the problem as a matter of individual pathology. In effect, they wanted to blame these guys’ troubles on their genetics and upbringing. Through a hard-fought political process, involving veterans organizations and mental health professionals, the diagnosis of PTSD eventually was created in 1980.

PTSD was a pretty good diagnosis for war veterans, but it was clear that there’s a much larger population of traumatized people. For every vet who comes back messed up, there are at least 30 kids who get abused, molested, abandoned, and neglected at home. Even though they’re quite different from combat vets in many ways, they show many of the same symptoms. In response to our lobbying, the American Psychiatric Association funded a field trial for a new diagnosis: complex PTSD or DESNOS. After that study was completed, the PTSD committee voted 19 to 2 to create a new diagnosis in the DSM. But to our amazement, that diagnosis was eventually left out of the DSM-IV, despite overwhelming research evidence for a much more complex developmental response to trauma.

Books & Articles / Re: Good article about us
« on: October 17, 2019, 03:55:19 PM »

For those who have experienced trauma, anxiety comes from an automatic physiological response to what has actually, already happened. The brain and body have already lived through “worst case scenario” situations, know what it feels like and are *-bent on never going back there again. The fight/flight/ freeze response goes into overdrive. It’s like living with a fire alarm that goes off at random intervals 24 hours a day. It is extremely difficult for the rational brain to be convinced “that won’t happen,” because it already knows that it has happened, and it was horrific.

I think or at least hope as more of us come together here and in other groups we will develop the language to convey the complexity of the relational trauma we endured.  :yes:

Before I knew what I was dealing with I landed at our sister site Out of the FOG and it was the language that helped me to finally understand and talk about what I had gone through - covert NPD behaviour  -- which is absolutely crazy making and messes with your mind and heart. Having the words/ terms and a tribe of others who understood was so affirming  and in fact life saving

One term I would like to see used more is "relational trauma survivor" when referring to people who developed Complex PTSD as a result of ongoing exposure to abuse/neglect. Currently there isn't a term used to identify us a distinct group. Much like PTSD tends to be affiliated with military and first responders, IMO we need to become known as relational trauma survivors who suffer from Relational Trauma Response which is less stigmatizing and pathologizing and will make it clearer that: a) our trauma was inflicted by others; and b) we responded in a normal way to extreme stress and threats to the self. 


Good for you BB  :thumbup:   Your post is a reminder for all of us that we need to stop when we need to stop and our T's must honour that.  They of course want us to face our trauma but we have to live with the consequences of that and know better than anyone what we're capable of dealing with at any moment in time.   :yes:


BB I'm sorry you had such a reaction to this situation.  :hug: I think you're very brave to try and figure out why, as most of us know it's tough to do when something is that traumatic we feel paralysed.

I know you weren't expecting answers but your post made me think of how I feel when I can't do something on my own. It makes me feel really vulnerable. We MUST rely on others in life and that has not gone well (to say the least) in the past. Either my family was just not there for me at all (and how frightening & lonely is that?), or I paid mightily for any help I did get (eg criticized for being weak, not very capable, now had a debt to repay .....).

In life whenever someone did let me down I would feel intense anger, followed by the thought "That's what I get for relying on someone else. I'm on my own, always have been." Like you though I've tried to figure it out what's beneath that and have come to see it's grief, deep grief that I did not matter to my family, that they would take any opportunity when they saw "weakness" to make me feel bad about myself, etc.  :'( 

Anyway, not sure if this resonates with you at all but wanted to put it out there in case it's helpful.   

General Discussion / Re: A Day That I Couldn’t Control
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:46:02 PM »

Announcements / Guideline Reminder - Giving Advice
« on: October 16, 2019, 04:38:46 PM »
For those who are new here, occasionally we will post a guideline reminder about something we're seeing creeping onto the board.  We discourage giving advice in the form of "You should do this or that" because none of us knows what is best for someone else. 

What we can do is share our experience and make suggestions that might help then leave it up to the member to make their own decision. 

The only exception to this are if the member is in danger (suicide, domestic violence, self-harm) and then we do recommend they seek help as soon as possible.

While we encourage members to support and encourage others in theirs recovery, it is important to remember that we are each here to work on our own recovery first and foremost.  Many of us with CPTSD have been trained to be caretakers and recovery for us involves resisting the temptation to do so here at OOTS.   

Feel free to share how you cope or have coped with various situations and to make suggestions (as long as they are phrased as such) - that's the purpose of this forum, but please don't make blanket statements like "You *should* do this and that" based on what you think and/or have read in the resources about CPTSD.  Another person's situation may be very different from yours.  Often, people need to come to their own conclusions in their own time frame. We are all coming from different stages, situations, and backgrounds.

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