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[Inability to ask for my needs to be met -]

 My discovery of my mother's NPD combined with my tendency towards being introspective has led me to figure out the reasons behind some of my most frustrating symptoms of CPTSD. I am in DBT therapy, which means that I have to interact with people with BPD on a weekly basis. They trigger me into emotional flashbacks at times. It is both a blessing and a curse, because it is distressing, but I am learning to navigate interactions with PD people without panicking.

Inability to ask for my needs to be met -

Whether it is at the Dr's office, in a work situation or even with my fiance, I can't clearly ask for things that I need without my eyes welling up. This leads to a tendency to never ask for what I need. I just accept whatever is offered to me, and then ruminate on things when they are unfair or stressful. I found that this is due to my being a Fawn/Freeze trauma type. My NM trained me to be her everything - her coach, emotional sounding board, court jester, maid, parent - you name it. If at any time I expressed that this was unfair, or tried to get what I needed out of our relationship I was punished, so eventually I stopped asking and just took whatever scraps she offered. Now I think that asking for things as an adult would be met with the same punishment, so even the idea of asserting myself is distressing to me.

Lack of self-care -


I feel like I don't deserve to be healthy, like the thought that I'm worth putting on makeup or fixing my hair is laughable. I think people are going to see me dressed up and think "who does she think she's kidding." This is because I was repeatedly told I was not good enough, worthless, a burden, and subtly put down for my looks (I look like my father). I can count the amount of times I went to the dentist from birth to age 18 on one hand. I only went to Dr when I was a kid if there was no way out of it - broken bone, severe stomach virus - or as punishment "You are FAKING and when the Dr tells me so, you are really going to be in for it." One of those times, I ended up having strep throat. I was told to often and for so long that I didn't deserve to take care of myself, how am I supposed to have self-esteem now? I shower regularly and brush my teeth, but I don't want to. I feel like "who cares" about it. I never go to the Dr or Dentist.

I need to "right" the "wrongs" -

I have flashbacks when I am met with a situation that is "Unfair" to myself, or others. Watching a tv show or movie where a person is blamed for something they didn't do. In real life when I am blamed for something I didn't do. In a work or school scenario, where one person is habitually late or doesn't contribute and it goes unnoticed. When a PD person gets away with something by lying to avoid blame. When my NM, who I haven't spoken to in almost a year, is lying about me to people on social media. I  desperately want everyone to know the TRUTH, I want someone who can exact justice to do so. I flashback for various reasons, but in instances of "unfairness" the flashbacks are angry and my brain tells me that violence is the direction I should go. When I was younger, I would break my phone, or throw something - I have never hit anyone, but during those times I want to.

Isolation from others -


My mother's behavior has made me believe that everyone is a threat. They might seem nice and genuine, but she lied about almost everything to me. Surely other people could be lying about who they really are as well. By keeping myself from people I am saving myself from future pain. I feel guilty because people do want to see me and spend time with me, but it is safer to pretend I don't want to hang out with them. I would rather people think I am a jerk than to know that I am basically broken.

I'm sure there are more, but these are what I can think of right now.

I am one of those people as well. I am no longer in an abusive relationship, my ex boyfriend of 4 years was most certainly either uBPD or uNPD (possibly both), and it's something I didn't realize until I made the discovery about my mother - 4 years after we broke up!

I also recognized that my best friend from high school is also probably on the narcissistic spectrum, I seem to attract them.

For me I think it's just that I was so used to being treated like my wants, needs and feelings didn't matter because of my mom, that I accepted that everyone would just bulldoze over me and push me around. I am passive, generally easy going and will put up with a lot of BS. Well - not anymore! But you get the idea.

Walker covers this really well, when he describes the Fawn trauma type - a lot of us had parents who were emotionally demanding (parentifying) while simultaneously being emotionally neglectful. This sort of emotional abuse creates a child who is eager to please at any cost, and will push all of their needs aside in order to please anyone in their life.

My ex lovebombed me, pretended to be someone else, then once he had me, he changed totally. We stopped having sex, he started lying to me and I would always catch him in lies. I remember having fights with him, where he would blame me for everything and eventually lash out and punch something or break something in the house. He expected me to financially support him even though we made the same amount of money, he would just spend all of his money right away and then look to me. His money was his money and my money was "our money." I went into horrible debt because of this, I actually just finished paying it off a few months ago. I didn't think there was anything really amiss here, because he convinced me that I was the problem. With my depression that I should just be able to "get over."

Just thinking about it now, I was making my c-PTSD worse by being around him. Thankfully, I set a plan in motion (got a second job, secured my own vehicle) and kicked him out of my house. I am now with a supportive and loving partner. He has his issues, and I believe his father had NPD based on talks I've had with his mom, but he is not abusive in the least. Once you are aware of the hallmarks of PD behavior, it is much easier to spot the red flags early on. I'm sorry Dee, that you are going through this now, but I know in my heart that you will be okay. I think that we are all incredibly resilient.

I love music, lots of different genres and artists. There are quite a few artists who write songs that I connect with emotionally, Elliott Smith (Pretty, Ugly Before), Wilco (Please Be Patient With Me),  Jenny Lewis (A Better Son/Daughter - which to me is about an emotionally abused daughter who blames herself), and the song "Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" - I like the Joe Cocker version, but there have been several covers. Another one is "Same Mistakes" by the Echo Friendly.

There has been debate about Fiona Apple, whether she has BPD or possibly CPTSD, but she beautifully writes from the perspective of someone with a trauma background. She has a few songs that I think are from the perspective of someone with CPTSD trying to explain how they feel to others, "Extraordinary Machine," is a good one. There is one song in particular that resonates with me, "Every Single Night."

Every single night
I endure the flight
Of little wings of white flame
Butterflies in my brain
These ideas of mine
Percolate the mind
Trickle down the spine
Swarm the belly, swelling to a blaze

That's where the pain comes in
Like a second skeleton
Trying to fit beneath the skin
I cant fit the feelings in

Every single nights a light
With my brain

What'd I say to her
Why'd I say it to her
What does she think of me
That I'm not what I ought to be
That I'm what I try not to be
It's got to be somebody else's fault
I can't get caught

If what I am, is what I am
Cause I does what I does
Then brother get back cause my breast gonna bust open
The rib is the shell and the heart is the yolk
And I just made a meal for us both to choke on

Every single nights a fight
With my brain

I just wanna feel everything x3

So I'm gonna try to be still now
Gonna renounce the mill a little while
And if we had a double king size bed
We could move in it and I'd soon forget

That what I am, is what I am
Cause does what I does
And maybe I'd relax let my breast just bust open
My hearts made of parts of all that surrounds me
And that's why the devil just can't get around me

Every single nights alright
Every single nights a fight
And every single fights alright
With my brain

I just wanna feel everything x3

Anyone else have a song or songs, or even just a particular artist that really encapsulates how they feel?

Thanks for the support, Three Roses!

My prediction that she'd go around spreading lies about me came true! But by that point (8 months into NC), I felt less angry, and sort of just felt sad for her because she is clearly desperate. Sorry about the cursing, I noticed that you edited them out.

Last year, I wrote a NC email to my  uNPD mother. She responded with an email full of gaslighting, minimizing, invalidating my feelings by blaming my fiance for my choice, said I was doing this for "no reason." I wrote out a response and it has been sitting in my draft folder for almost a year. I have removed names, but this is exactly as I wrote it.

EMAIL:

No reason? That's hysterical.

This will be my last email to you. You don't even deserve this much from me.

(My fiance) has nothing to do with my decision. There you go again, claiming someone put an idea in my head. We just talked about this on Christmas. You have done this since I was a small child. You claim that someone "poisoned me against you." I could never come up with an opinion on my own, could I? That's just one of many ways you have attempted to diminish me, deny accountability and hurt me for the past 32 years. (My fiance) paid for my entire trip to see you. Why would he try to get me to turn against you?

Listening to the way you talk to (her boyfriend) truly disgusted me. I searched online for answers, why does she act this way, what's wrong with her? The day I got back from your house, I read a book about narcissistic abuse that sounded like it was written about you specifically. It was as if I had written a book about how you've treated me my whole life. I learned that what you are doing to (her boyfriend) right now is abuse. You separate him from his family so you can treat him like * and beat him down by nagging, snapping with an attitude, and treat him like he exists only to serve you, rubbing your feet, scratching your back. Your own built in slave, and no one is around to stop it. It's what you did to me, to (grandmother) and to (her exboyfriend), and probably every person who ever thought you loved them. You control every little thing and fly off in a rage if you don't get your way. You withhold and neglect emotionally when people don't do exactly as you want, so they eventually just always do what you want, walking on eggshells to avoid conflict and cope with the unfortunate situation they're in.

I remember when i used to fight with you when I was a teenager and said that I thought you had multiple personalities or bipolar disorder because you would change from happy to psycho in 2 seconds. Now I know that it's NPD, which is pretty on par with being a sociopath. There's nothing that can be done to change what's wrong, because you don't think anything is wrong with you. It is impossible to change a narcissist.

I won't allow myself to be in a twisted relationship with you anymore. I deserve people who truly care for me, ask me about how school is going, how I'm planning my wedding, things you have failed to do again and again. My decision to stop talking to (my high school best friend) was similar. She had no interest in me or my life, only what attention she could get out of me. For you to blame (my fiance) for that- he "pulled me from my girlfriends" -is totally laughable. You know how selfish (my high school best friend) is. You always have to find a scapegoat to blame for situations you create. You decided that you hated (my fiance) within 2 hours of meeting him, because you couldn't sit for 10 minutes and entertain yourself while he had a migraine. I stopped inviting you over, and my contact with you lessened after that because I was appalled by your behavior that night. It was embarrassing, and uncalled for. Your opinion of him has no bearing on me, because you don't even know him.

Why have I continued to spend time with you if you're so terrible? If I ever tell you I am unhappy with anything you say or do, you attack me from 4-5 angles: I'm judging you, I'm attacking you, someone else had to made me think it, you tell me I'm crazy or I have a selective memory or I live in a fantasy world... So I never disagree, I never tell you anything is wrong because you use fear and abuse to keep me in line. You don't know me at all. You have attempted to create a child who only lives to serve you and to be essentially another version of you. I am not you, and don't want to be. I shouldn't have to conform to a personality that you created in order for us to get along. It's oppressive and abusive. You stunted me in this way, I am a victim of emotional child abuse. What I am sick with, what I have always been sick with is c-PTSD, which is a symptom of your "love." Just because you kept it secret, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'm sure you'll go around and tell all your harpies that I'm nuts, my fiance controls me, you're innocent and wounded. You're really good at lying to yourself and everyone around you and creating an illusion, and I don't care what they think about me. I am vindicated, finally know the truth. I'm free. I am going to graduate at the top of my class and have a really fantastic career and home and life with a loving man who treats me like gold. The life I've always deserved. But he's a controlling * because he didn't act like you were a celebrity one time 4 years ago, right?

I'm sure you will do something else in an attempt to hurt me. If you love me, if you ever loved me, you will leave me alone and go get yourself some psychiatric help.

mourningdove, I guess I should have been more clear. I meant "seek out an alternative religion as a means to self-identify," wicca is one example, but they may be atheist, quaker, etc

here is a scholarly article that explains what I mean. Oftentimes, people with BPD feel so disconnected with others that they can't conform to their religion of origin, so they seek out a religious sect that seems like it is for people who are "different."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4277802/

And again, to clarify, I'm not saying that everyone who is involved in alternative religions has BPD, just that it is something I notice, that individuals with BPD tend to involve themselves with things that are different from cultural norms. We can say correlation doesn't equal causation, of course, but when I notice a pattern I take a mental note.

I often dream that my mother is a zombie or a demon and she is chasing me. I have also dreamed that I was accused of crimes I didn't commit and put into jail.

My exact trauma was continuous and went on for  3 decades, there is no "trauma itself" to pinpoint, it was just a situation full of neglect, emotional abandonment, and verbal abuse by an NPD parent. I think that dreams where we feel helpless is the big issue. Something was happening to us and we couldn't stop it. Dreams of being chased, or attacked, or locked away seem like how our psyche expresses the feelings of vulnerability and helplessness.

This is a really great article. I am currently using my addiction to picking my skin as an anxiety relief mechanism, and I am battling to try to stop but I keep falling into it. I have battled drug addiction (prescription, haven't used in years now), smoking (quit 2 years ago), various eating disorder behaviors, compulsive shopping. I agree with Dee, it's like I trade one addiction for a new one.

I'm sorry that we all seem to have to go through the same thing - feeling as outsiders. I also feel like I can't connect to people, that I don't deserve my relationship, that other people don't like me. My social anxiety has made people label me as uptight or unfriendly in the past.

I did not socialize with any other children until I went to kindergarten. The only people in my life on a consistent basis in the early years were my malignant NPD mother and possible Histrionic or BPD grandmother. I feel like I don't know how to be like "normal" people, I hold people at a distance and can't seem to form the right words. I tend to think about every social interaction and go over what I SHOULD have said or COULD have said, and then feel sorrow that I didn't or couldn't and shame that I am so weird.

Quietone, it's wonderful that you have a supportive partner, that can make all the difference. Just remember that you have value and matter to people, no matter how you feel about yourself.

It depends on what board you use on reddit. I found the "raised by narcissists" board to be very supportive and safe. But that is for people with a specific sort of trauma background. Some of the boards there are outright hateful. I find it useful to read the right side of the page - the rules of each board. Some have "no bullying, no body shaming, no judgements" and those are good for emotional support.

I know this is an old stickied thread, but I just wanted to comment on the "impulsiveness" aspect, that it is supposed to be just a BPD trait. CPTSD can cause impulsive behaviors like binge eating, shoplifting, compulsive overspending... I have dealt with these issues throughout my life. I also fear rejection. I would not say that I am "frantic" about stopping abandonment, but I am definitely paranoid that everyone will leave me or hate me eventually.

I am not a doctor, the following is just from my research, observations and opinion. This is not meant to insult anyone or to make anyone here worry that they are BPD. I know deep down that I am not BPD, though I have worried in the past because of the overlapping symptoms between the 2. I am not diagnosed with anything. I've barely been to a therapist prior to this year, and have just sort of "dealt with" everything on my own. Individuals with BPD tend to end up in therapy early on in life, simply because the people in their lives can't deal with their behaviors.

The main issue that I see as the difference between BPD and CPTSD (I am in therapy with BPD individuals) - is an inability to be accountable for behavior on the BPD side. The incidence of painting things to be different to maintain the image of being a victim. I can acknowledge when I am wrong, and sincerely apologize. People with BPD get increasingly argumentative when they are told they are wrong.

Another issue I see is the incidence of identity disturbance. Individuals with BPD that I have met wear "different" clothes (goth, emo, BDSM wear). Or they dye their hair a million bright colors, or they wear a lot of accessories. Or they become Wiccan, or think they are an animal spirit... they have no idea who they are and try to create a persona to "make" themselves definable. People with CPTSD have a negative self image and are less likely to try to find a persona to adopt, more likely to just be down on themselves no matter what and kind of float through life unsure of what they really like or really want.

Again, this is based on my close relationships with people with CPTSD in my own family, and people with BPD that I have met. I don't know much beyond that, and the articles and books I've read.

Edit to add: I don't think all people who dress outrageously or "different" have BPD, it just seems to be a common trait among the BPD people I have met.

[die]

This is triggering towards the end, just a long-winded outpouring of my symptoms follows...

Aside from the emotional flashbacks that I experience probably 1-2 times a week, the issue of avoidance is the worst of my symptoms right now. I am not working at the moment, going to college full-time. I did not realize that I had c-PTSD until I made the discovery that my mother has NPD a year ago. Once I discovered that her behavior was in fact abusive, everything about my past, which is full of periods of depression where I was avoidant of people/places, emotional outbursts during high stress times, the feeling like I can't connect to anyone and that I'd rather just be totally isolated so no one can see how screwed up I am... well it all made sense.

I have a spotty work history, because frequently in the past I have found myself unable to get my sh%t together to show up every day to a job. For the past ten years, this has been the pattern: I get a job, I work at the job for a year or so, everything is great, I am doing well... then I have an emotional flashback and everything spirals downward for a period of time. Then I feel like I can't work, I can't do anything or go anywhere. The idea of anyone looking at me is terrifying, I can't even go get the mail out of my mailbox.

Right now, I am half in the avoidant camp and half in the "on the way out of a regression" camp. I do not work, having quit with the intention of finishing school, though I am older than most of my classmates. My partner is very supportive and understanding about the issues that I'm having, and gives me praise all the time that I don't think I really deserve. I have been doing better, showing up to therapy, mostly going to school. Today I did not go to school. I feel guilty and ashamed that I did not go, and I think my professor probably wouldn't care that I am having this kind of a problem. I am not physically sick, I have been told by some people to just "get over it," "everyone has anxiety." How can I explain what I am going through without saying "I was tormented by my mother for 3 decades and now am totally broken, sorry."

I feel like pavlov's dog. Conditioned to be the way I am. I'm insecure, afraid of everything, afraid that everyone I meet will be mean/rude/out to hurt me like NM was, I sit in my house checking out the blinds every 20 mins - I know no one is coming! I am paranoid that she will appear at my door, though I am almost 1 year NC. I just know from reading other's experiences on forums that narcissistic parents never give up. Just when you think it's safe, they appear.

My therapist is very kind, but is not really trained to deal with trauma. I am doing DBT, which has been helpful with being strong when asking others for what I want and need, and meditation/deep breathing techniques that help me bring myself down when having a panic attack. DBT focuses on the present and not the past. All of the issues I have are tied to long-term neglect and abuse in my past. I am supposed to just be like "yeah sure, let me read this book and act this way and I will be better."

Honestly, that has mostly been true. I have complied with the homework assignments, no matter how difficult they've been and my confidence has gone up while my self-hatred is going down. But it kind of feels like it is just easier to go "I hate myself, I'm sh*tty, I will always be sh*tty, there's no hope for me." This is how I feel after a flashback, and I am still having them. It seems like anything can set them off. During flashback I feel like a trapped animal, like a person who's been imprisoned for something I did not do and my instinct is to react with intense anger.

For the most part, I don't act on the impulses to engage outwardly with anger anymore, I used to when I was in my early 20's and didn't know I had c-PTSD. I lived with this for years before I knew what it was. I have had long-term relationships with several guys, most of whom I am still friends with. I look back at my past behavior and am embarrassed, knowing now that my past flashback driven outbursts were totally inappropriate and I want to apologize to my first boyfriend. He and I are still friends, he doesn't seem to have negative memories of our time together. I just can't stop criticizing everything I've ever said or done. 

For Thanksgiving this year, I went to my partner's family - the first time I'd seen some of them in over a year because of the depressive period I've been in since going NC - and as I walked up to the door I wanted to run. I was panicking, wishing for a meteor to fall out of the sky onto my head so that I could not have to go. I used DBT skills to get me into the door, and then the experience was totally pleasant, everyone was nice, we had a great time... then I spent the following 2 days filled with anxiety, going over all the reasons why I was too loud, too dumb - my inner critic always convincing me that I suck no matter how well something goes.

I just want this to stop. It's getting better, but it's not totally better. I worry that it never will be. That's where the suicidal ideation comes into it - like Walker talks about. It's not that I want to kill myself, or even that I want to die, it's that I don't want to live. I would rather move to a cabin and be a hermit forever, because it feels like I can't just be normal and handle things. And the fact that I can't be normal, coupled with the fact that I can't explain to everyone I meet why I'm not normal... I'd rather just get cancer and die. Or crash my car and die. I fantasize about these things happening. I could never bring myself to end my own life, but if death came to me on it's own I would welcome it.

I love my partner, we have been together for 5 years. The only reason we are not married is because I am too anxious to be the center of attention as a bride. Also because my mother is totally evil and I will not be inviting her, and having to explain why she isn't invited to other people is too much for me to handle. And I am estranged from many of my friends and family. I have people reaching out to me and wanting to get together and sometimes I just can't. I feel awkward inviting people to my wedding when we aren't that close anymore, but I still value them in my life and am afraid they don't feel the same about me anymore.

I think they all just think I am selfish or an * who doesn't care, when it's really that I am just nonfunctioning as a person and I feel like no one will understand. When someone is like "hey, it's been a while, want to meet up for lunch." I can't be like "I'm sorry, I can barely get it together to go to 2 classes a week... the idea of being in a restaurant, where I will likely burst into tears is overwhelming." I want to slap myself in the face. But that is my mother. "Crying again? You should go to hollywood you'd make a terrific actress." The reasons why I can't regulate my own emotions, all because of her emotional abuse and invalidation for years.

Sorry if this is long and all over the place, just venting.

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

I have c-PTSD as a result of a growing up with an uPD mother. I registered on OOTF with the same username, and recently posted an account of my experience, so I won't rehash that here. I am just thankful to find this forum, as this is the first I have seen like it - specifically for c-PTSD.

I have been NC from my abuser for almost a year, and am in therapy at the moment. Things have improved a great deal for me in the past couple months, but I am still experiencing symptoms, the main ones being emotional flashbacks, a very loud inner critic, and chronic people pleasing (an inability to ask for what I want, or say no).  I am a Fawn/Freeze type, according to my research.

After researching treatment options for ACoN's, I chose to enroll myself into a DBT program, because the main issues that I want to work on - interpersonal effectiveness,  and emotional regulation - are covered in the framework. DBT has been recognized as an effective treatment for PTSD, eating disorders - though it was designed specifically for BPD. The main issue that I have with it, is that everyone else in my group is either BPD or NPD, and their behaviors are triggering to me. I find that I am having an easier time complying with the homework and structure than others in the group, and though the group aspect is designed to be a support system, I find little support to be found. I have made a commitment to see it through no matter how uncomfortable I feel, and that has been helpful in managing my flashbacks.

I look forward to reading everyone's experiences, thoughts, struggles and most importantly - healing together.