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that's interesting dolly, sounds like you're taking the medicine on your own rather than it being delivered in a therapeutic session. Maybe that's the benefit of smaller doses, being able to integrate experiences during later therapy sessions. Have only  been reading about retreats and research trials so far. Hope it continues to bring good things.

Have been off the forum for a while, revisiting this thread. Been working with an Internal Family Systems practitioner for the last two years who's a psychotherapist. Parts work and body awareness and it's bearing fruit. Finding myself interested in psychedelic supported psychotherapy although it turns out my strongest protector parts have many concerns about it. Early days. 

Been listening to a few recordings from the online psychedelic assisted therapy conference. Looks like these are taster sessions before the run up to the main summit in October 2024. Last year's full summit recordings are also available.

Not sure contraindications were fully explained, other than acknowledging that's an issue for the service provider and may well vary. There were healers working from their indigenous traditions who were more of the view that they can intuit who will benefit or not and don't rely on classifications or categories from DSM/ICD11 etc

Some also talking about altered states not needing to be reached via plants and chemicals, but other means like meditation. There was a session on holotropic breathing, a method developed when psychedelics were banned but where participants advised not to do if they already experience panic attacks. So, horses for courses.

Interesting stuff. 

yeah, this was a pretty full blown psychosis starting prior to psychiatric hospital admission.

MDMA looks promising, a different experience but the sense of fearlessness, connectivity and empathy inducing qualities during the experience will bring up a lot of material for integration.

thanks Kizzie, it's not going to be in everyone's toolbox. I'll look up Papa Coco's posts.

Armee, it was my dad who was highly narcissistic and when he got a terminal cancer diagnosis in his early 80's, it rocked his core. A man whose identity was caught up with physical fitness and health, finally saw his demise which he had no control over- he was aiming to be 100. He was pretty emotionally fragile anyway as most narcissists are and allowed himself to crumble / fragment after this news. Declining some treatments and opting for lithium, he eventually got up and running again without meds and died of cancer not long after.

Actually I don't have a lot of detail about his experience other than the diagnosis of 'psychotic depression' but remember he said he was responsible for burning down the hospital he was staying in at the time but thought it may have just been a dream (the hospital didn't burn). I'm able to access his medical records if needed in future.

It does feel a risky business, I've never even smoked a cigarette but the evidence is pretty compelling, albeit not for everyone.

Thanks for the conference link - have subscribed so will post here if I manage to tune into any of the sessions. Good timing, as I'm keen to learn more. 

Having only tuned in to psychedelic's potential this past week, my therapist is also encouraging but I'd forgotten to raise the family psychotic episode. I'm hoping there's a way through this, although I'm also cautious and fearful.

many of us have histories of close family also being affected by trauma and/or possibly a genetic predisposition to certain reactions, will root around a bit more. Glad your therapist is supportive. I think most therapists will have knowledge of other therapists working in this way, or knowledge of people benefitting from this treatment even if they're not carrying it out themselves.

this is such a promising and exciting area for recovery with a few cautions. Research is ongoing about who benefits and I'm wondering if anyone knows more about risks with triggering psychosis.

Further down the line, if not sooner more will be known about  risks with more vulnerable groups but my initial excitement last week (just recently fully realised the significance of this type of therapy for us) has been tempered by me having had a parent who experienced a psychotic episode in their 80's which resolved within 18 months. I'm now 60 and haven't had psychotic experiences but reckon the close relative experience is a contraindication. This isn't to say there wouldn't be benefits but probably any prescriber and therapist worth their salt would be cautious.



 

Hi M, totally relate to the sadness as part of recovery. It seems it was always there for me but not always fully felt and understood while I pushed it away. Crying has been hugely helpful and the grief has come with anger at times much to my surprise. Maybe this is a way to lift depression a little and also anxiety when no longer pushing emotions down or away. I've also found Pete Walker's writing about grief and recovery in cptsd so helpful.

ah, that makes sense Kizzie.

I've found Skype sessions valuable and effective so far for talking therapies. And can imagine some somatic approaches can still be really effective virtually too. Seems to be a bit of a revelation now that many sessions are taking place over zoom/skype when previously it was thought limiting. With everything going on - more awareness of trauma as well as the virus, it's definitely noticeable that therapists aren't taking new clients and have full waiting lists.

thanks Marko, the approach does seem to have value.

I'm still looking around for a suitable match. Betterhelp, although having a range of rates, don't seem to have anyone listed specifically with SE qualifications although some offer a somatic approach.

Many although certainly not all of the SE therapists listed in the SE specific directories have training and experience in areas other than psychotherapy and counselling and I'm wondering how that figures with the importance of the relational component. Of course it's possible to build trust and have therapeutic benefit with any practitioner but just an interesting observation.

do agree with everyone on this thread who's mentioned the benefits of getting reacquainted with bodily sensations where previously the strategy of overriding them was important to carry us through. It's the very stuff that can bring us back to ourselves.

Hi Kizzie, I'm starting to look around. I'm in the UK and this will be funded privately. Trying to find my way around the literature / research and probably getting overwhelmed and stuck. Also aware of virtual options around the globe, so the net widens - not that it makes it any easier !  Reading a bit more about different approaches and trying not to spend too much time reading through the therapists' biogs at betterhelp - too many.

thanks for sharing your experience and your comment about the importance of the relational aspect to our trauma recovery.

edit - have just realised sensorimotor psychotherapy and somatic experiencing are very different approaches although with some things in common.

thanks Barney and Kizzie, it seems an interesting option.

Wondering if anyone has had any progress with SE techniques. I've had quite a bit of talking therapy over the years and now at a crossroads of where to next. It's definitely up until now a case of being more concerned to avoid these huge feelings of overwhelm and it makes sense that being able to experience them more fully may go some way to help discharge them.

I've read some of Peter Levine's stuff and about to read Janine Fisher and beginning to understand that it's important to build in some resilience before embarking on this type of work. Firstly, in times of covid, is it possible to do SE over Skype with a therapist or is it a therapy that doesn't really lend itself to Skype?

thanks woodsgnome for your reply.

I know personally there have been a lot of tears and anxiety and they often happen together. With the anxiety comes huge amounts of adrenaline - to run - and so it makes sense to try and be closer to some of those difficult feelings rather than to outrun them. It does take a while to learn to be there for ourselves and to be with the messy stuff.

Wasn't sure if this is better placed in books section but directly relates feelings of anxiety and depression.

Have reduced my reading around CPTSD for the moment while reflecting on Pete Walker's understanding of depression and anxiety. I'm tempted to go with a simplistic understanding and my reading of Pete's work seems to offer this, if I've understood correctly. I'm wondering if anyone familiar with Pete's work or similar has reached the same conclusions. My understanding may be too narrow though so would welcome anyone's thoughts on this, as he's a bright light in recovery writing, both as a clinician and someone with direct experience of recovering with CPTSD.

When our developmental relational needs aren't met by caregivers, we can experience abandonment depression. We become overwhelmed by having no one and no place to turn for safety and these feelings will come up for processing again and again. 

If we can allow ourselves to feel this depression rooted in the original abandonment, then it can help transform depression. It will require us to sit with those feelings and acknowledge both the original fears (reassuring ourselves we are now safe), and express grief at the loss of not experiencing loving security at a stage when we needed it. It will often also require us to become angry at the injustice of the situation and with the caregiver who couldn't/ didn't provide. The anger is one way we re-establish boundaries and a sense of ongoing safety and the tears help with processing and release.

Just wanted to check with others..is Pete saying that anxiety is the next stage up, when experiencing depression is something we would rather avoid and so feelings of anxiety develop as a defence? As though it's easier to experience anxiety than go back to re-experiencing the original feelings of abandonment depression, which can feel the most difficult, both originally and now.

I was always struck by Pete describing how even now, he gives himself space to cry at those moments of reconnecting with the original abandonment rather than using strategies to avoid it - like being busy, spacing out etc. Of course the pacing of all of this is different for everyone and everyone's recovery journey is an individual one. It's just got me thinking about things differently. If anyone's wondered the same, would be happy to hear from you.