Messages

hey, what's up.....not sure what to say, never was one for first posts on things.  I guess, what would be really awesome is if you guys told me that this is actually happening.  that lady IS that horrible, she really DOES like it when i'm sad or upset or angry.  if i make her angry, she really DOES punish me for it somehow.  she actually has made everyone in my immediate family think i am so crazy and that the terrible tension that permeates this house is MY fault, so now none of them talk to me.  at family functions, i am literally ignored, its like i'm not there...unless i go off somewhere, being of course hurt and mystified by this treatment.  then from where ever i've escaped to, i hear "where's katie?" "where's katie?" and then i sigh and wipe my tears and go back to where everyone else is.  they will just come looking for me if i don't go back.  "oh there she is"...i become furniture again. 

i feel like i can't do anything right.  i feel like i literally can't DO anything.  "you're an unfit mother" "you're useless"  "you can't do anything"  [incerpt  anything bad a person could possibly feel]

i am not an adult.  i am not a person.  i am not really allowed to parent my own children.  i have to do what that lady says literally "or else".  i am always wrong.  she is always right.  blah blah blah...you guys know this whole deal i'm sure.

i've just started to realize that i am NOT in fact crazy.  what occurs around me and to me SOUND insane when i write them down but its still actually happening.  its really happening,  guys.  but it doesn't matter that i realize this.  no one else in my family would believe me, ever.  no one else at all would believe me, ever.

sorry, my thoughts are never very focused but i try.  i am 35 years old.  i have two of the best children there could ever be.  i had to move back in with my parents ten years ago when i was pregnant with my son.  i don't know why, but i thought it would be good.  wouldn't be for long.  i'd save money and move out....okay i'm not doing the back story thing lol, its too much.  lemme try to use short sentences so that i can't ramble.

nevermind, i feel stupid now anyway...i know that i don't have to, but i do.  if someone could just talk to me...about anything really, but this specifically would be nice lol....i know i am not crazy but i still feel like i am.  i know i need to get away from this house but it seems impossible right now...if it were just me, i already gave up, wouldn't be here, etc. melodrama etc....but i have to save my babies.  i refuse to let that lady or my sister get them.

yeah, i'm gonna stop talking now.  advice?  secret coping skills?  a joke that makes me laugh?  hit me back!

I believe you. I get it. And, I believe that you are not crazy. You know the truth, and it does not matter who, if anyone, gets it. In time, you will know that all that matters is that you know the truth, and that you know that FOO is dangerous and that you must protect yourself and your babies.

I rarely post here, as I have mostly been on outofthefog. But I know exactly how you are feeling right now and I just want you to know that you are not the crazy one.

I feel so alone.

Oh yes. I've had a few frenemies like this. In time you will see that it is better to be alone, than to be abused, or minimized, or taken advantage of, or belittled, or ignored, or humiliated, or........ You will be better off without her, and you will begin to recognize these bloodsuckers sooner in the future.

I say "Who needs them? Who needs this crap?" Not me.

She did you a favor by leaving you alone.

I have some thoughts.

I have been in and out of therapy my entire life. For various reasons. I am 54.

I now know that a few of the Ts were awful. One, who should have told me that my M was a N, and that I was the FOO SG, gave me terrible advice and I now know that what he suggested only made my situation and the abuse I was suffering worse.

Please, go with your gut feeling. Do what you think is best for you. These Ts do not know everything. And, how many of them have CPTSD themselves, and/or have had similar experiences to ours? They may think that their training makes them experts in something, but I don't.

I'm not in T now. I'm tired of feeling like I am wasting my time, money, and energy.

It may take you going to many Ts until you find one that you feel comfortable with.

If you keep working on yourself, and recovering, you will move forward.

Nice post arpy. Well put.

i refuse any more to pretend that things are ok when they demonstrably aren't.

What a * of a task that is, no?
For me it is, at least.

I believe that this perspective makes the enablers, the FMs, and the rest on the the gravy train, feel uncomfortable. They dislike us for telling the truth. And we certainly do know the truth - and we've got the scars to prove it. For whatever the reason, they can't, or won't admit to the truths.Finally, I can say "Who cares?" to that.
When I finally started on a road to recovery, this was a major breakthrough. I said "No more" to the pretending. And I escaped.
The truth really does set us free.

Both. All of it. There was one incident where I suddenly realized that my mother keeps on crossing my boundaries, that she doesn't respect me at all, and that she's constantly distancing herself from me. THAT was a shock. It all made sense in hindsight, and I realized I'd always sensed that something was off. But I'd kept on explaining it away. I kept on thinking it was MY problem - that I'd caused it and that I simply had to do things the right way to fix it. In short, that I'd simply have to keep on jumping through hoops and things would turn out well, she'd finally like me and treat me with kindness. So when that house of cards collapsed, it was hard to digest. It felt mostly like grief, like abandonment. But you see, I'm now convinced that I can only heal if and as long as I'm keeping my distance from her. So that step was VERY necessary. And it was also a great relief to find out that it wasn't just me - that I'm not THAT unlovable or incompetent.

I really relate to this. I have so many unbelievable memories (flashbacks), I cannot believe that I lived being abused for 50 years. Why didn't I question the way I was treated? It was completely abnormal. I was the obvious scapegoat. And no one protected me, or raised the issue, or came to my rescue. I can't help having flashbacks, and I can't help being in complete disbelief. As with all of you here, the stories are so incredible, I don't tell people about them because they would think I am making it up.

[3 tips for handling communication with an abusive personality type]

I have been thinking about this thread and I got an email over the weekend from SpartanLifeCoach called 3 tips for handling communication with an abusive personality type:


Sorry to disturb you on a Saturday morning, but Im on the
4th day of an overdue caffeine fast (15 years of non stop
coffee, my poor brain) and its the first day I feel
non-foggy and all inspired n stuff so if you can please endure and
forgive my "slightly too loud for the morning" enthusiasm
for a moment I have something cool to share with you.

First I should inform you of this

"emotional blackmail, flying monkeys and CPTSD" the next
interview with "whats wrong with Kris and Steve" will go out
live today at 12.10 pm Arizona MST time. Which is 20.10 pm
UK time.

http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=5KkB2&m=3k2QqqX4pbcNF_R&b=ok9YUGmIrcrfpDXiBWjG6g

If you want to listen to your favourite life coach spill the
beans on these spicy hot topics then feel free to tune in!

Now to the main reason for my email:

We MUST discuss the thorny issue of handling
communication with an abusive personality type that
because of circumstances outside your control you
simply can not get away from.

Yes, No Contact with them ever again would be
the ideal solution, but we do not, sadly, live in an ideal
reality, as evidenced by the current (unacceptable) lack of
unicorns and/or dragons.

I will be releasing a proper tutorial on handling contact
with a narcissistic personality type soon, but lets get
through some top tips that you can start using today.

1. Snake Handling Gloves

Have you ever seen the way pro snake handlers handle really
venomous snakes? They have all kinds of funky looking
equipment they use and they TAKE ALL NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS SERIOUSLY.

They take their task very seriously.
In doing so they alter their emotional state.
You may or may not know that I am a self protection
instructor of the combative martial arts variety. One of my
areas of specialty is the psychology of self protection so I
know all too well just how important it is to train the
emotions and mind as well as the physical body to handle
violence.

One of the things I would focus on is "state management".

One would hope that a SWAT team member is in a different
emotional and psychological space, smashing down the front
door of a crack den than he is at the dinner table? The pro
snake handler doesn't handle a highly venomous snake whilst
chatting on his mobile with the other hand and chewing a
sandwich.
Well he might, but he wouldn't live very long!

The risk of getting it wrong would be an agonising death so
he: changes state and pays attention.
Do not approach communication with a narcissist in a slack,
off the cuff, impulsive way. Yes, they will do their best to
get you to relax, that's their game plan, but don't.
Use a different mindset and HANDLE them with as much
emotional distance as you can.

When they call, take a breath, mentally put on them thick,
fang and venom resistant gloves, switch your awareness level
to "present moment Zen" and be as detached as a surgeon.

2. Start With The End In Mind

This is a rule not just for handling snakey narcissistic
types but for life. Have a clear objective in your mind and
stick to it. Many people, places, things and bizzare
eventualities may unfold seeking to knock you off your
objective but your success in life will be proportionate to
your dogged determination to stick to the plan and focus on
the end goal, ignoring all else.

Like a pitbull. Be stubborn. Bite down on the objective.
Dont let go.

When I teach self protection, I call the mindset needed to
survive a violent confrontation, an attitude of tenacious
resolve.
The abusive personality type is a black belt in
discombobulation, prevarication, equivocation, garbling,
shucking and jiving, quibbling, sidestepping and fudging
with a good working knowledge of the subtle art of the flip
flop, the reversal, the deadly art of reframe-jitsu and the
kung fu master of "no matter what its your fault and I'm the
victim here".

Do not fall prey to the knavish, quarrelsome strategies of
the swindler-villain.

Instead start with the end in mind and stick to your
objectives without getting pulled into the emotional
poop-puddle they seek to wrestle you into to distract you
from your true purpose.

Stay stoic. Laconic. Cool. Focussed.

This will take discipline and impulse control. But its well
worth it as it deprives them of the emotional oxygen they
need from your distress.



3. Abandon Sincere Communication When Communicating With The
Insincere

Like a ninja dropping a smoke bomb to stealthily mask her
timely escape the abusive personality knows that distraction
is key to an effective strategy. If you analyse the
communication with a new pair of glasses on, glasses that
only let you see the one frequency of emotional
manipulation, you will see things differently.

With your new specs it will be clear that they are almost
never really talking about what they seem to be talking
about and are just engaging in a series of provocations to
foster certain emotional reactions in the people around
them.

Ready for another martial arts lesson?
Here we go:

FOCUS ON CONTEXT NOT CONTENT.

Whilst you bravely and sincerely try to deal with the
content of the reaction-seeking gibberish they have vomited
your way they are relishing in the context of your emotional
upset.

The content is what they are saying the context is your
emotional state.

If they can not alter it, they cant win.

mmmm, looks like this "state management" thing might be
pretty critical eh?

Ok thats enough from me for now.

Have a great weekend.

Cheers!

Excellent post, KayFly! Thank you.

i just read this thread for the first time. I'm happy to hear that you are 90% not going.

I went, saw, and spent time with, way too many people, things and times, that I now wish I never went to. I went because it was the right thing to do. When, really, the right thing to do would have been to do what I really and truly wanted to do, which was to Not go, not see those people, stay away, and protect myself. By staying away all of those times I would have avoided so much abuse.

My point is - do what you think is the best thing for you to do. Do what you want to do. Don't pay attention to what anyone says about your decision.You will fee best about your decision if it is YOUR decision, with no pressure from anyone else.

Hi Southbound! You are an awesome writer and I hope that you will share your writing with all in this forum. I, too, am sorry you heard about your father's passing like you did. And, I understand how you simply went to bed.

About the forgiveness issue - why? Why would I forgive my abusers? How would that benefit me?

Now, finally, I'm putting myself first, and I don't care one bit about NM or FOO. Not what they say about me, what is going on in their lives, nothing. THAT, I believe, is forgiveness. Forgiving myself for accepting the abuse for most of my life. And allowing myself to recover.

Hi all!

Just popping in to say that I am still doing better! This month was the 2nd year anniversary of my father's death and my going NC. He died the day before father's day. But, I've been living my life, abuse-free, and so this year June was not as bad as it was last year, or the year before, or the year before that....

And something else I've noticed - I no longer feel "bad" about being NC with FOO. When people talk about their families, or their mother, or their brother, it does not bother me like it used to. I am less sad now about not having a mother, or a FOO, or a brother, than I used to be. I'm amazed.

Thank you all for your support, and for your wise words.

Hey Salsera, it's been a while.  Welcome back 

Thank you, Kizzie!

Fredricka, it is eery how these PD families are so similar. You are not alone. I was the lifelong SG, and I was treated miserably. I think the invalidation and gaslighting was the worst. I am 2 years NC with NM and all of FOO. NGCbro was an abusive bully, trained to do a lot of NM's dirty work, and I loathed him. My other NGCbro was recruited onto "team against Salsera" and I noticed that in just a few years, he was copying the bully's abuse of me. I was humiliated to my face, smeared, blamed, you name it.

After 2 years of NC, I am soooo much better. I don't care one bit about any of them, what they say about me, to whom, what's going on in their lives, nothing. I left to protect myself, and now I am safe. I avoid triggers, and to do so I have to ignore holidays, not look at photographs, and do things that may be considered sad or lonely. But it is worth it, because I am no longer being abused.

I still sometimes feel a little angry that I don't have a family. And never did. But, I'm ok without them. And better than ok without the abuse and anxiety.

Hi Fredricka - SG here too and lots of invalidation, gas lighting, triangulation, all the lovely things PD FOO do including smear campaigns by my covert NPDM.  I just leave them to themselves and the big sticky PD web they are all caught in.  I actually feel sorry they are caught in that web and don't even seem to know it. So be it though, I am free and I love it. 

Me too!

[because forever it was "normal" for us to be treated this way]

I believe we can feel this way because forever it was "normal" for us to be treated this way....I feel that by getting rid of the people that are not sincere,  who ignore us and are genuinely unkind, we will get to a place where we can trust people's kindness because we have lived enough of it at that point.

However, it is a long road. The longer I stay away from them, the better I feel.

Today I realized that it often makes me feel uncomfortable if someone is kind to me. Growing up the way I did, I've come to expect being pushed around, being ignored, being blamed for 'whatever', being (publicly) shamed for every little flaw I have, .... Kindnesses, on the other hand, put me instantly on my guard. The only 'kindnesses' I am used to (...and that's including birthday presents or hugs when I was injured), were 'given' to me with the understanding that I would be expected to repay them 10 times over - and at the giver's demand.

There are two thoughts that seem to pop up in my mind:

1) Shame. A very deep feeling of "I don't deserve niceness. I am not good enough."

2) What does s/he really want from me?

I wish I could break this cycle. Not only understand cognitively that  it's okay to expect and accept kindnesses from others, but also be able to feel that I deserve it.

Does anyone else still have problems with this? How do you handle it? How do you stop your automated thoughts that tell you you're not worth it?

Yes, me too. It's an awful feeling, I know.

 

Hi Again Kate - I just wanted to add that if you haven't been to our sister site Out of the FOG, it might be something to take a look at as it concerns living/dealing with people who have a personality disorder.  It's at  http://outofthefog.net/forum/.   Great site and lots of information, support and encouragement there too 

I'm new on OOTS but have been on OOTF for 2 years. Both are awesome!

Thank you for the warm greetings!

I will read the guidelines, and I certainly will be posting in the future as I read "The Book".

It's nice to talk with people who understand where we are coming from.