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I really, really want to find a local support group that I can go IRL, I mean, not that I don't LOVE you guys here in OOTS, but I keep hearing over and over, from people recovering from trauma, that finding a good local support group is what made the critical difference for them. I am getting good therapy, so that part is OK, but I am searching and searching and there are too many terms that are used too many different ways. The only local PTSD I can find is very clear that they are ONLY for veterans with post-war PTSD. My searches turn up absolutely ZILCH when I add the term "complex" or "CPTSD".

I just got off the phone with a group that meets on thursdays, which I will try, but they are an open group for any and all mental illnesses, so schizophrenia, bi-polar, depression, whatever, all mixed in together.

You would think a city this size (5 to 7 million people!!) would have a handful of groups for any given diagnosis?

Anybody else conquer this problem? How did you find a group?

With regards to getting upset when hearing about grave injustices like indicting an innocent person, could it be that there is some projection? It's hardest to advocate that much for ourselves, but seeing a surrogate target chanels that emotion we deep down buried.



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Very much a possibility, never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense!

Same here. In my case, the problem was that I was convinced that relationships are impossible, and that the most I could hope for was a shallow exchange of pleasantries without a true meeting of minds (if that doesn't sound too sappy). Also, no one ever empathized with me, so I simply had no idea how it worked. Sorry, that sounds too "boo hoo, woe is me", and it's not. Realizing all that was actually a huge relief. Relationships aren't truly impossible. That's just something my early life has led me to believe. A fallacy. It's not the truth. It is possible to truly interact with people. Knowing that feels good. I just wish I'd realized all that when I was, oh, thirteen. Then I wouldn't have spent so many years and decades basically shut in within myself. Empathy lets you visit other people's worlds, so I imagine it must feel a lot less claustrophobic.

No, I don't hear any "boo hoo" at all. Not sappy.

It would be nearly impossible for others to empathize with us. The key to all these definitions is "emotion," and since a key indicator of CPTSD is basically broken emotions, how can the un-broken ever be expected to understand? It's like describing color to a blind person. There is no frame of reference. When I started to understand that, it was a relief to me, too. I no longer felt aggravation or resentment toward people, and I stopped trying to explain the unexplainable. I started to appreciate their intention, and no longer felt stung by their failure to "get me."

"Time heals all wounds" - I'm planning to be petty towards the next person who says that in real life. Either I'm going to say "...all wounds?" and get them into a detailed discussion of physical ailments that are not, in fact, healed with time. (Appendicitis... stab wounds... gangrene...) Sometimes when I'm particularly annoyed at this proverb, I cheer myself up by trying to come up with really unsettling ailments.

The explanation is, my mother loves such proverbs. I've had them flung at me at all hours. She practically used them as a parenting tool. So I've come to think that they're an attempt at control. You just mention that proverb, and it's supposed to carry all that weight of popular opinion. You don't even engage with the other person properly. They seem likely to mention that they're in trouble? "Move on!" - WHAM, end of story. You're simply just trying to make the problem magically go away. You stop the conversation, basically.

So it isn't just the content that's harmful. It's also the way such proverbs and bits of advice are often used. People use them to distance themselves from other people's real situations. They use them to gain a quick and easy sense of control: they want to feel that they've seen through the problem, and they want to feel that they've fixed it. There's also often this hierarchical thing, too - like they think they're your mentor or boss.

Wow, cat, BOOM! You hit several nails on the head!!  I never even thought about the controlling aspect of it. That is so true. That must be at least part of my resistance... it's the patronizing, condescending attitude some people are trying to pass off as advice. Or they truly just do not give a sh*t, and want you AND your problems to just disappear.

Time heals all wounds, really? Stephen Hawking? Amputees? Death row inmates? Yea, that's what I thought....

Detachment is a form of self-sabotage for me, I think.

I recently started forcing myself to get out of the house, and two weeks in a row I went to a Wednesday morning "between jobs ministries" thing they have at a local church. I made note of my behaviors & interactions, as if I were an anthropologist following myself around, trying to understand social dynamics.

I put on my professional knee-length "jackie o" type of dress, pearls, bring my professional game. I pay attention, take notes, and I am very smiley, happy, friendly, and engaging with everyone I meet. I always converse at length with whoever sits next to me, exchange contact info, and I'm pretty sure we both leave feeling good about the whole thing.

The first time, I ended up getting an interview with a recruiter I met there. I got offered a job, but after doing some math, I decided it just wasn't worth it - the drive was too far, and the pay was too low. So I emailed the (male) recruiter and explained my reasoning. His reply to that email had a distinctly flirtatious tone to it, which disgusted me. OK, that's beside the point, another topic...

But the next time I went, I met a lovely female professional, and we had a wonderful chat, lots in common, etc., but here I am over a week later and I have not followed up with her. Or the other people I met the previous week. I have not checked my LinkedIn messages since Jan or Feb. CLEARLY this is self-sabotage, and I sit in this house day after day, feeling out of touch, and hopeless, (yet more apathetic than anything) and I cannot bring myself to do the most basic essential interactions, not even online from the safety of my home, with people.

Have you noticed how unpredictable and the infrequency of my visits here in OOTS? Kinda the same thing happening that always happens. I make connections, then I let them die of neglect. It's my comfort zone I guess, and I don't know what to do about it. I have close to 100% success rate at killing connections with people in my life. Family, friends, communities, I have nearly zero meaningful ongoing interactions.

The one thing I hear over and over again, from people who are well on their way to recovery from trauma, is how IMPORTANT it is to have a strong support group or community. How can I ever expect to improve, if I have no such thing, and I constantly sabotage every attempt?

Anamiame, I agree, this must be at the core of mine too.

Hugs to your younger self , you can sit next to me on a bus any day 

And a BIG cheer for turning things around by reparenting yourself       

PS - I used to get pains like that in my side whenever I ran and it was a stitch which I think came from being so tense all the time - tightly coiled muscles and shallow breathing do not make the body happy when you put it to work. Once I learned to stretch out and warm up before I ran (which I hate to do by the way) I didn't get them as frequently or as bad.

Thank you Kizzie! If I ever have dreams about that damn school bus, I will try to put you on it with a friendly smile, making room for me! 

Wow, what a difference one person could have made, if they had just showed me how to warm up back then!

I just realized something else about this!

I am so terrified of confrontation or conflict, that's why I almost NEVER say or do anything but freeze when someone is being PA.

But just now I tried a new thought exercise that has been super helpful if I can remember to do it... I usually forget all about it but it's brilliant... put the shoe on the other foot! What if *I* was the one rolling my eyes at somebody, and they called me out on it with Rain's hilarious suggestion? "Is something physically wrong with your eyeballs?" Would I react with anger, or would I laugh? Part of the "shoe on the other foot" exercise requires really trying to imagine both reactions, so I try to imagine reacting to that with anger. It's not easy, because I guess that's not my real nature. But I think if I had enough anger that I absolutely could not see any humor in it, then WOW, what's that about? Almost all anger is defense against sadness. What is the sadness about? What if this confrontation actually ended up helping the PA person see something they are always trying to hide from themselves? Even if you never know, because they would never *admit* that to you, maybe not even to themselves, it could still open up an idea for them, and if you keep doing it, who knows... But you are off the hook because you are not responsible for their journey.

Charlotte, I wish I could help. I never had kids, and I don't regret it because I'm certain I would have messed them up. The fact that you are aware, and taking it seriously, is a really good sign that you will do a much better job than someone like me who was completely unaware.

Are you both in therapy? CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) is a really good tool for both of you to learn how to deal with feelings.

The best book I would recommend, is CPTSD by Pete Walker. That was the one book that changed everything for me, and got me going in the right direction.

Welcome to OOTS!

 

Rolling eyes.  "Are you attempting to communicate something or are you having a physical problem with your eyeballs?"

Rain, this had me laughing out loud, I'm glad I wasn't eating or I would have spit food everywhere!

But seriously, thank you for this. I'm glad I dropped in on this thread, because this is excellent advice that I needed to hear as well. I spend a LOT of time triggered and doing nothing about it, frozen and fawning, because of this PA behavior that is so slippery to deal with.

I always thought I knew what empathy and emotional intelligence were, but right now I'm beginning to have second thoughts. I think it might be possible that I have mistakenly given myself a pass on this topic because I am extremely sensitive, but I never really stopped to think about it or explore with an open mind. Sensitive may not necessarily equate to empathy.

For example, I feel intense sadness and outrage when I learn about innocent people thrown in prison, child abuse, animal abuse, endangered species, etc., but whatever you want to call that, it does not necessarily, in my case anyway, interpret into everyday interactions with people - at home or in a work environment.

I just finished a book called "Strengths Finder 2.0" and although I did not take their test, I read all 34 of the strengths descriptions with as much of an open mind as I could muster, and I was quite surprised that the description of "Empathy" did not completely resonate with me, not nearly as much as several other areas. I always thought of myself as empathetic, but maybe I'm not! I think it's a common mistake people make, to give themselves too much credit in some areas, and too little in others, and never re-evaluate.

I found this article in Forbes about it: http://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2014/01/09/emotional-intelligence/

From the article:
"Self-Awareness is your ability to accurately perceive your emotions and stay aware of them as they happen.
Self-Management is your ability to use awareness of your emotions to stay flexible and positively direct your behavior.
Social Awareness is your ability to accurately pick up on emotions in other people and understand what is really going on.
Relationship Management is your ability to use awareness of your emotions and the others' emotions to manage interactions successfully."

I would honestly give myself low scores in all four of those areas, but especially the first two. I can see how my CPTSD symptoms have directly affected my ability to form quality relationships with people. Specifically, I think I have been so constantly overwhelmed by powerful emotions I could not understand, that there was no self-awareness at all. How could I possibly interpret other people's emotions and respond appropriately, when my judgment was constantly clouded with my own confusing feelings?

This might sound like a bleak assessment of my situation, but it actually gives me a lot of hope. This is an important piece of the puzzle that has been missing, and now that I know about it, I can start the process of learning how to work around this handicap while I continue to work on other coping skills.

I've experienced derealization, the way Butterfly quoted, once, in a way that was so powerful and frightening that I will probably always remember it. It was during a time of intense, dramatic trauma.

EFs, however, I experience quite often. My boyfriend has a certain tone to his voice when he is annoyed, and every time he uses that tone, I feel like a 3 year old getting screamed at, and I cannot bring myself out of it.

I also have an extremely strong reaction to music. There are songs or musicians that are my *favorite* during an intense relationship, and once the train wreck happens, I can NEVER again listen to that music without emotions taking completely over me. It's like time travel. Emotionally, the wounds are fresh and raw, even after 3 or 4 years have passed. And it takes a long time to shake. I would consider that an EF.

Yep. I'm seeing more clearly now, that I have that deep, desperate need to be loved, so I *must* have the romantic partner role filled at all times, no matter what. Aside from that, everybody else can come or go or drop dead for all I care. No wonder I don't have any friends!

Oh no, BeHealthy, I've been away from OOTS and it looks like I missed out on this opportunity to help you! 

Please PM me and I will give you my contact info in case I can help in the future!

C, I love the Spanish saying, it does sound a lot more sincere.

Cat, I think it might be possible for people to have addict tendencies and behaviors, without any obvious substance in the picture. What do you think?