Messages

You are so welcome Voiceless and do know that writing this stuff out helps clarify things for me in my own mind.  So I am glad it helped you! But please know that facing things like this, and thinking about them helps me in my own relationship too.  So thank you too for making me stop and think!

C. I think you do need to do something about the key, but it is for you, for as you say: closure.  So there are a few things you could do. You've already thought of a couple but all involve contact. Texting risks contact, same with a phone call.  So here's a couple more:

Change the locks and rekey.  Then just drop his things by his place when you know he's not home.
Write a letter, and ask for the key to be mailed or left somewhere like your mailbox, and use the opportunity to say thank you for the good times. And drop his things at his place.
Take his things to his place and leave them along with a note asking for the key back and instructions on where to leave it for you.

I think anything you do will be hard on you but probably something you need to do for yourself, but as gently as possible.

Maybe one of these ideas will help but please do be as kind to you as possible!

Kizzie - Thanks and I am going to ponder your suggestion, which is, basically, loosely translated: fight a bull dozer with a bull dozer, Because my attempts at polite reminders are not working.  My sister told me to tell he to shut the F up.  But laughing.  It would be hard to laugh as I am not laughing anymore.  I am angry because I have been bulldozed so many times already. And NO she cannot go live with anyone else, nobody else will have her!  Nobody. Though funny story, the roomie told me this afternoon she was going over to my sister's again this evening.  My sister though she likes to have fun. also treasures her privacy.  We'll see how this works out if my roommate continues to run to my sister whenever I bulldoze her bulldozer. We'll see how hard my sister is laughing if these visits keep up.

Voicelessagony2 - Though an interesting idea, I cannot lock myself in my room for lots of reasons but the main one is I have to take care of my 11 year old grandson. Also I smoke like a chimney, and I do not allow that inside the home, only in the sunroom, which is an outdoor room with a fireplace. But I do like the humor idea.  I just have to scrounge around in my soul and find my sense of humor. So maybe I do not even have to actually laugh, just smile. But say what I think instead of the polite kind remarks.  I find it difficult to be what I perceive as rude, but I think it is time to be rude because kind politeness is having less than zero impact.  And having my boundaries and requests trampled only makes me feel despair that I am once again ignored, don't count, have no value, am worthless and not even worth paying attention to in my own home!

Also I dimly remember something about copying what they do, using the same words, tone, actions, do it right back, and it is supposed to shut them right up. This is for PD's not normal people, but I am pretty sure this woman is a flaming PD and I suspect Narcissistic as she seems to be the only person who ever matters.

I will think on both ideas which are similar, and give it a try. It will be completely out of character, but if it restores my dignity then it would be worth it.  Thanks to you both for the ideas!

Apparently my brief chat with my roommate about setting a target move out date was not taken seriously.  My sister is friends with this woman, and she is telling my sister that she intends to stay until May 6.  My thought was April 6.  But why?  Because she is trying to find a place to buy, not rent, and even if she found a place tomorrow, realistically it could take until May to close. Argh!  So now that is my problem?  I do not know how to handle that.

In any case even though it has only been 7 days since I last posted it feels like 7 months. That's the environment I am in.  I am surviving. But I am not living.

I am slipping back into old patterns of thought where I second guess myself all of the time, and wonder if I am over reacting, and am doubting things about myself.  I chastise myself for getting irritated or angry with my roommate, but then hours later realize wait a minute!  I have already told her this stuff many times!

I do not know what is going on. I do not know if she is doing things intentionally to irritate me, or if she is simply clueless and has no boundaries.  But she is doing it and I am wanting to control it and stop it and that feels WRONG, wrong of me.

She has been gone a lot. And goes out at night a lot.  And it still isn't enough. It's literally like every single thing she does now drives me crazy and I feel horrible about it.

She spent the weekend at my sister's house, and I called my sister last night to see how that went.  I guessed it went well and that she did not get drunk or incoherent, or obnoxious.  I guessed right.

But as soon as she arrived home I could tell she had been drinking heavily.  I was watching the only TV shows I ever watch, which is a few shows on Sunday nights.  My roommate has been told I watch these shows, and she has seen me watch these shows every week for 5 months. She has been told I am addicted, she has been told that they are important to me.

So she gets on the phone and is talking loudly to someone through most of the first show. And I can hear her much better than the show, and she is bitching and griping about not wanting to go on a trip to the hometown of a friend who died to memorialize her and honor her.  It's grating on my nerves.  She "loved" this friend s-o-o-o much!  But wants to do the memorial somewhere else.  Why?  because it's closer for her, more convenient for her.  My nerves are fraying from listening to her complain, and from missing my show.

It does not improve when she gets off the phone, she starts talking and talking about her weekend with my sister, and in the tiniest most minute detail, that is just annoying. Finally she stops talking.  This is well into hour 2 of the shows, and asks me what movie I am watching.  I explain it is not a movie it is the shows I watch every week, and now I am going to have to watch them all over again. She says "Oh, sorry" and then keeps talking, and commenting now on my shows!  Finally I see her face go slack, the eyes glaze over, the mouth fall open, and mercifully fall silent.  I go to bed simply to get away from her.

Last night I find out that she had stopped at a bar between my sister's house and mine and the bartender is friends with my son and the bartender told my son that my roommate had been doing shots and was drunk when she left. So now I know.

Which just irritates me all over again.  My roommate respected my sister enough to stay sober all weekend, but then could not even make it back to the house without getting smashed first on the way home.

Then yesterday I am talking on the phone, and she interrupts me, frantic gestures, repeatedly trying to get my attention.  I FINALLY say what is it? And she tells me she's going to put a load of clothes in the dryer!  *!  WHY did she have to interrupt me to tell me that?  I have told her over, and over, and over, I cannot talk to 2 people at once.  I never mastered that, I cannot do it.  I have even said, "Is the house on fire?"  Answer, "No".  Me:, "Okay I will talk to you later."  And she STILL does it!

Then, last night she wants to tell me some story about getting into an argument with her doctors about some surgery she is going to schedule. And it's on and on and on.  And finally after she says "I got pissy with them about it." for the 10th time.  Finally a light bulb goes off, and I realize once again she is drunk as a skunk. And I just say, "Well it sounds like you might need to find new doctors to do this surgery, because if you don't like them and don't trust them then you probably won't ever be happy with them."  She stops talking!  Yay!  Gives me an evil look.  Sits there a minute.  Then stands up and says good night and slams the door as she goes to her room.

The morning of the day before she went to my sisters house, my boyfriend came over to see me.   We went outside for some privacy, but every time I walked past her to come in the house and get us coffee or drinks she would stop me and try to engage me in a conversation about the details of her back surgery, a new app she had found that she knew I would just love, until I was simply furious with her.  I was trying to have some alone time with my boyfriend but nope, she was going to butt in and try to get my attention back on her. And each time she did it, I said, "I will talk to about this later," but she just kept on.

I am at my wit's end.  And I realize nobody ever answered my original question on this thread.  And that is:

How do you get these people to shut up and leave you alone???

Because she does it when she is sober too. Worse when she is drunk, but whatever she has to say is more important than anything else you could possibly be doing, and she MUST have and monopolize your attention. NOW!

I feel like selling the house and moving out and letting the next owners evict her. I feel driven into a corner with no place to turn and I do not know what to do. I am angry because I do not feel like I should have to leave my own home just to get away from her, but that's all I can come up with because polite requests do not work.

Any ideas?  I would like to survive until I can get her out of here, and I do have something to look forward to, but meanwhile my sanity is taking a beating.

Schrodinger's cat - Thanks for the cheers!  I need all the cheerleaders I can find these days.  I am stumbling along doing the best I can, and expecting the worst and hoping for the best. And it is hard because the past makes us second guess ourselves, and not trust ourselves to make the right choices.  We were always told we were wrong. So inside is that eager Inner Critic always challenging us every step of the way, and telling us what a bad person we are if we choose ourselves over another person.

Marycontrary - Same to you, thank you so much! The thing is we can't solve the problem. She told me that. I tried to focus on behavior, and changing behavior in my letter, but even I was lying. The problem is she is a full blown raging alcoholic, and when I got honest about the behavior, her response was " I am an alcoholic."  And that was followed by, "I will not get counseling, I will not get help, and I will not work on it myself." Unspoken:  Deal with it.  This is me and I am NOT going to change.  You are going to change in order to accept me.

So I knew.  Right there I had my answer and my answer is, "No I won't live that way.  I could try if you would try, but you just promised me you won't try.  And it is not my job, it's your job, but if you won't do it, then you cannot stay here."

So she did promise to try, but every friend I have has counseled me, "Now you know she is going to fall, she is going to try, but she is going to fail okay? You understand that she can't do it right?"

And marycontrary, I want to say to you more than any friend I have, your recommendation of Ajan Braham has helped more than anything.  It is like some kind of miracle.  Every talk I listen to has something special and meaningful that DIRECTLY relates to my issues, and my problems, and how to solve them, and still walk away feeling good about it.  So thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU!

So Everybody - today I said it short and sweet.  I said, "When you moved in we never set a date for you to move out, and we did not discuss what our expectations were.  But in hindsight I think we should have.  My expectation was for 3-6 months, but I never said that.  So now I am, and now I do need us to set a date for your next steps on your path."

If you could even know how I was shaking saying it.  Who was I  to need and want something?  I needed, I wanted, I had expectations, oh awful terrible person me, to have needs and wants!  But I did it anyway, and it was not so well received. And there is sulking now and hurt.  But we have an agreement to go month to month after March 6th, as she has some issues that are going to take her out of town for a few weeks at some point in time in March or April, so I do not mind housing her things while she is gone, no problem. But I did it! Not a great speech, but I still stood up for me, and still tried as hard as I could to care for her and it is the right thing to do.

It was the right thing for me and the right thing for her as well.  She will now have so many more opportunities and reasons to shift her focus off of us becoming her next improvement project, and getting the focus back where it belongs, which is on what she needs to do to make her own life better. I think that is what they call Tough Love. But it is tough on everybody that is for sure.

Voicelessagony2 - I hear you, I hear you loud and clear. And I KNOW what you are going through, I truly do, and I am not promising anything is absolutely 100% positively going to work, only it's worth a try If and only IF, you love the guy and would like it to work.

It is horribly invalidating what he is doing, and combined with your inability to stick up for yourself, in that you were taught to believe that you deserved nothing at all, it is an extremely difficult situation to overcome and deal with.  As you say, you are trying to fix yourself and the relationship single handedly and simultaneously.  I KNOW what that feels like.

But here are some tips.  I still believe with the right guy it can happen and it can be done, because I've just spent the last year doing it.  Now we did have to break up, but once we were broken up, either he HAD to read my emails and my letters, or he wasn't going to communicate with me at all.  Because writing is the only way I felt safe talking and saying what I feel.  I am STILL this way, and if it is a Big Deal, then he STILL gets an email even now, almost a year later.  Period.  But he's been trained now since last April.  So he accepts it now. He reads it then we discuss it.

When R. says, "I TOLD you that already, Sheesh!"  He is acting as a Martian, really, he wants to be recognized for what he "knew" all along and thanked.  But that is NOT what YOU need. So somewhere inside of you, you are going to have to find the intestinal fortitude to hold your hand up palm out and say "Stop!" This important to me!  I do not want or need you to fix it.  I have to fix it myself.  But today I fixed something myself, and I want you to celebrate with me and be happy with me.  I just need you to listen to me."  And see if he will.  If he won't even listen then you will have your answer.  You will probably never be happy.  But if he will listen and be happy for you then it is possible.  I talked about this above, but I may not have been very clear.  And you may have to do this multiple times to get him to stop and finally learn what you need. But if he will stop each time you say "STOP!" and just listen then there is a chance.

And to be fair my guy will still do this on occasion.  BUT, now I know he is coming from a good place in his heart, not a controlling place.  Because I finally trust him to have my best interest at heart.  I can finally tell the demons from the angels.  And I laugh now!  I laugh and say "Yes, but I had to do it, and that is quite different from you knowing it. You knowing it doesn't help me at all!"  And we laugh together! So it is a joke now, not painful and angry. He recognizes I am a separate person from him, and he cannot make me see or understand anything.  I have to do it for myself and it is best for BOTH of us if he just celebrates it with me when I do it.

Now to be fair it sounds like your man needs a lot of retraining. And it's going to take guts to do it, but what he is doing is normal male behavior.  So if you don't retrain him, but you want to be with a guy, then you will probably have to retrain the next one too. So if it is worth saving, it is worth a try. You stop him from his gloating, and tell him what you need from him.  If you trust him and know him to not be PD then he should be able to do that for you. But if he can't, then you have your answer.

Okay about the meds, if money is tight and you really did act like everything was fine, then it is really not fair to wait until you are dying and say "I have been dying" and then not have him wonder if you cannot wait.  I'm sorry but YOU have to take responsibility for your pain, and if YOU feel bad, then don't pretend you feel great.  Who is that going to hurt if you pretend?  Obviously you.  Because now you are in REAL pain, and he doubts you, and you don't have the resources to even fight about it anymore.  So ignoring yourself and pretending does NOT help.  Hardest thing in the world for us to learn is to speak up for ourselves.  But if we do, then sometimes miracles happen. Again, if he knows starting Friday you feel bad, and then if you still feel bad on Saturday, would he have been more receptive or less receptive? But only you know him and if it would not have mattered, then again you have your answer.  This one cannot be saved. But you do have to play fair and give him a fighting chance.

And the credit card... How demoralizing and humiliating, and way to just make you feel about an inch tall.  This is the one that has me a bit worried about his motives.  Again you are the only one who knows.  Does he try to control you?  Or is he (in his mind) just being logical? But take comfort in the fact that money is one of the main reasons "normal" people break up too. So what he said was not fair.  You are NOT a mind reader. But that is a PD trait.  So that is why I am unsure.  Only you can KNOW.  I would wait for him to calm down and say, "Look, I am sorry about going over budget, but I want you to know that If I had had  a budget, I would have stuck to it. It is important to me that you see and understand that I did not know what the budget was.  Now that I do know then I will stick with it. And I appreciate you setting that out in black and white. Now I know, and I am glad to know. But I would like you to recognize that I am not a spendthrift and I do not go crazy with your credit card or money.  It would make me feel good if you would agree that I do try. I would really appreciate it if you would give me some credit.  And see what he says.

I wish you the very best and it is SO hard, and you do have to do twice the work, just like I do, and all of us do because of our issues.  But when we find one worth keeping, it is worth the effort.  Because they can bring us so much joy too. I hope your R. does bring you some joy and is worth the effort, but if he does not then you still have some new tools!

Thank you so much for your response Schrodingerscat.  I had to mull it all for a few days to get clarity.  And I still keep getting these annoying attacks of fist around heart squeezing. I am not diagnosed, but I only feel and believe certain people and actions trigger me into becoming someone I am not. That is not me.  It is the result of something that happened to me. But I continue to believe I can get better, I can overcome it, and I can become the person I want to be.

Yes you are right.  Everything you said is right and correct and true. But what I have finally starting looking at, belatedly, is that it is not my fault. It is sad, and I feel sorrow to be so misconstrued, and so misunderstood, but it is not my fault. It is her decision to do this.  She has a choice. She can believe I come in peace, or she can believe I come with an agenda and choose to be offended and angry.

I do think she does feel a certain way such as inferior, and then manufactures why it might be my fault why she feels that way.  I read that about Narcissists in a book recently and it was a revelation. That they have a feeling, and then try very hard to make the facts fit. I don't know.  I just know she seems to grasp at straws to make the world make sense, and it felt very keenly like she wanted me to be the bad guy. That it was impossible that she could possibly have done anything wrong or offensive. It was me.  I was negative, I was superior, I had a personality disorder.  THAT was the reason why I found her drinking and drugging and language offensive. If I did not have all of these problems, then it would be okay with me for her to act as she does. That is how it feels. That she is trying to convince me that she does not have a problem, and if I would just loosen up, lighten up, then I would understand that it is okay for her to steam roller over me and my family.

So I have found MUCH comfort in marycontrary's recommendation of Ajan Brahm.  I have only listened to two talks, but even though he is a monk, and I am person of the world, I find much similarity in his views and mind. but he says it so well, and he just confirms all my thoughts. Much he says I already do, and it is affirming, and helpful, and makes me feel I am on the right path. I am going in the right direction.

What I do see clearly after talking to a couple of friends is that I am the scapegoat once again. I have been elected or maybe, probably, self elected to tell this woman she has a problem, and she needs to get help, or at least start trying herself to try to deal with it.  Nobody else will do it.  Why they stay friends with her is a mystery to me. But she throws money around like there is no tomorrow.  Like buying them all tickets to an Elton John concert and hiring a limo... Stuff like that.  So maybe they keep her on for what she can do for them.  But they won't take her into their homes...

So I was elected, or self elected. Because I think everyone in the friendship circle knows I am not affected by displays of money.  I  have my own, enough, enough to be content.

I do not know why it this way, but it is. So what I do know is that I am going to tell her when she comes home that we are at a fork in the path, and our path does not run together, or in the same direction, and that we must part. And I will tell her I trust her to run her own life and she must trust me to do the same.

And I will care, but I will not get too close because it hurts. To quote Ajan Brahm, Love the tiger, but at a distance.

Voicelessagaony2 - I get what your therapist is saying but it is still an excellent tool and exercise for you to do for yourself.  You need to let that frustration out!  Bottling it up does no good! Also you if you can work through enough on your own, you can give hism the good parts.  Make a second letter that only has that last part - All that you are thankful for and grateful for about him.

As for the trash scenario, he may just want appreciation. It's a basic male need and it is at the top of their list along with trust. So here's another way to respond to his "Is it full?" question.

"Yes, it is, and I just want you to know I so much appreciate you taking care of the trash.  I hate doing it, and it means a lot to me that you take care of that for us."

And then try asking him to do other things too.  Open a jar for you, or zip your dress, or carry the groceries, just simple little things and just keep appreciating, keep thanking.  It can't hurt and it might help!

WOW Marycontrary!  Wow!  Yes, now I "see" it.

I talked to my sister a long time tonight, who is somewhat damaged, as she is the GC in our NPD family, but she offered some good insights.  She felt it was simply time for my roommate to move out. She said I had done my job, and offered her a way station, but it was never supposed to become her home, and now it was time for the roommate to move on. We are a big group of friends, and we all talk, and interact, so whatever anyone does impacts the rest of us.

But I have been less involved, came late to the group, and to the party, and what I finally heard between the lines is that no one else would take my roommate on.  Even though they are all closer, and all knew her better than me. No one else would do it. So everybody else is sort of standing back waiting for the big explosion, and sort of admiring me for doing it, but at the same time going, "Small doses of that one is all I can take."

So tonight I feel much better! I see clearly how I am not helping this woman anymore.  I am contributing to her staying sick. By providing her with a diversion (my family) that she can come in and try to fix, then I am distracting her from her time and ability to focus on herself and her own life.

So it time for me to move out of the way.  She is gone now on another jaunt. And when she comes back, if she does not suggest moving out, then I am going to insist on going month to month on the lease until she finds a new place, and just say, 'It is better for me." Because that is the truth. My job is done.  I did a good thing.  I gave her place to stay and to find herself.  But if she refuses to find herself, and adopts me as her new pet project, then I am no longer helping and I am hurting. So if I keep trying to make myself become a home for her? Then I am ruining her chance to find herself.  I will be giving her a distraction from herself.

There is nothing wrong with what I did, offer her a temporary home, but now I have to get out of the way. I cannot fix her and I do not want to be fixed. I think I need to get practical and logical. Get my feelings out of it. I was simply a way station and it is now time to move on.

Marycontrary - I am interested why you say she has no empathy? I read through her responses again and could not see it, but I am usually quite blind to those closest to me.

I appreciate the link.  I have started listening and right away I can see he is QUITE calming and soothing to listen to.  Thank you!

C.  - Thanks for the support!  it means a lot!  I did wake up his morning with an epiphany of what she meant by being negative and acting superior. 

I think it is because our interests are so different and I often decline her invitations.  She is rabidly into professional sports, and takes it so seriously. She often invites me to bars or Super Bowl parties and usually I decline.  I just have no interest.  I like books, and music, and learning, and self help and spreadsheets.  Give me a spreadsheet to wrestle with any day of the week and I am in heaven.  I was an analyst before I retired. And I am introverted while she is wildly extroverted.

So I think that me saying no to her invitations makes me look negative to her, because I don't want to do the things she wants to do.  Then she probably takes it a step further, and believes I am a stuck up goody two shoes. So she simply cannot fathom that I just don't share her interests. So instead of appreciating my diversity, she perceives it as an attack on her choices, her decisions. 

This is just a guess but I decided to ultimately not approach her about it because I do not feel it would be productive. I felt it would be best to see if she says "I hope I did not hurt your feelings."  At that point I could say, "No it didn't because I don't feel that way about myself, but I can see why you may think that."  And then explain about the different interests and see she agrees.

And sadly after all of that drama of the letter, even though she was not drinking before I went to bed, she was incoherent and had probably taken some pills.  And when I got up this morning there was a significant amount of alcohol consumed after I went to bed.  It's just incredible to me that someone would drink when they already can't talk.  It is very sad and it is hard to look at. Painful even.

Voicelessagony - I am so glad the Feeling Letter appeals to you it really helps work through the anger, sadness, fear, regret, what you hope, and what you appreciate and are grateful for. I do hope you get your courage up to give it a try and you can even write a response letter to go with it - What you want your partner to say after they read the letter.

I wish you would read Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus by John Gray.  It will explain how you are communicating now and how some changes need to be made.  The hard part is you have to ask for it, and you have to help your partner understand what you need.  The main thing you need to do is tell him that you just need him to listen to you for 10 minutes, and that you don't need him to say or do anything, just listen.  Tell him that it will make you feel ever so much better if he just listens to you, then you vent.  Then when you finish, you tell him how much better you feel, and you thank him for listening, and you smile at him, and give him a big hug.  And you will feel good!

I do these almost everyday with my boyfriend, and he knows how to do it now, and he knows I don't want him to fix me, just listen, then he gets appreciation when I am done.  It is win-win and it works!

So I do hope it is not too late, but it made a huge difference for us.  We broke up in April last year and then slowly started doing this in June and it really helped us a lot. I did beg him to read the book too, and it took him a month but he did do it, because I said it would mean a lot to me. And he got lots of appreciation for doing that too.

So I do hope it's not too late and that this can help you, but yes the way your man is communicating with you is very frustrating to women, ALL women.  And he's NOT trying to be mean, he's from Mars and that's how they talk on Mars, and he actually thinks he's helping you!  So you have to help him learn how to listen to you the way you need him to, as you are from Venus and speak a different language.

I truly hope you seriously give this a try.  It saved my relationship.

Marycontrary - I downloaded an App from the app store, but there were no meditations?  If you would give me some more information I am interested.  Thank you very much!

I (Finally!) gave my roommate the letter.  It took great courage, though I did not tell her that.  Just me, I told me that I was very brave to try to take care of me and my family.  I knew it was going to hurt no matter how gently said. And it did.  And she agreed to do the two specific things I asked for, which was no screaming outdoors or in the sunroom, and no more directives to the grandson.  Though she gave many logical arguments why she still needed to give him directives, and I finally conceded as long as she wasn't drinking she could give him some guidance.

As for her grievances, they were many. Which is why I had to get my adult self back before we talked. I knew there would be blowback.  And for most of them, I simply said there was not anything I was willing or able to do anything about.

She complained how dirty the house is. Which is true.  It is picked up to a fault, (I'm a bit OCD about clutter) and all laundry, dishes and counters, sinks and toilets are clean and clear. But there are dusty floors, and tables. She wanted to hire a cleaning service. No!  I want no obligations that she pays for! I did agree to set up a schedule for myself to clean more often. But she wanted chandeliers 20 feet off the floor cleaned, (they are not dirty) I dust them once a year, ceiling fans, light fixtures, ditto. I declined, said I would handle it.  Then she wanted the windows washed inside and out. I can't fathom why, but assume it is so I am obligated in some way so I declined again. They are fine, I am happy. I do regularly often (at least once a month) clean 20 windows myself, but she's talking about the 2nd story bedrooms, where blinds are closed most of the time.  No, doesn't need it until the house is up for sale which it is not.

Then it got weird. 

Such as disliking my son sleeping on the couch every night.  He has reasons and they are mental, which I tried to explain, but then she simply wanted me to fix him and I declined.  He is 30.  If he wants to fix his problems then he will have to do it on his own.  But it may be irreparable damage.  He's overdosed 3 times.

And she disliked that my son and grandson do not do much around the house. Not her stuff.

And she disliked how I talk to my son sometimes and that she was embarrassed for him.  Not her stuff.

She said I was very negative and it was really bothering her.  You don't know me from Adam, so you have no way of knowing, but I am a very positive person.  I am happy most of the time, smiling, and kind, and a big believer in the power of positive thinking.  I pick my battles carefully. I am posting to get better not to get worse.  In any case that threw me. As my BF has often commented that my roommate is one of the most negative people he has ever met. I did not agree with her, I just said "Wow, that's interesting." But she is one of the most negative people I have ever met in my life, and it is draining emotionally to listen to woe is me, and I am f***** and the world is against me. Why do they accuse you of what they are doing?  Do they know?

Then she said I am superior acting, that I act as if I am superior to others "all the time".  And cited my forums, and reading a lot of John Gray material, then quoting the material as evidence of how I was acting superior. And she said that that it felt cult-like to her. Again my boyfriend talked me off that ledge.  He said an alcoholic does not want to hear about how well AA is working out for you.  Same with your forums and your books.  You are improving your life and yours is getting better and she does not want to hear it.

Oh, and the best part was that she said she thought I needed to deal with my Disorder.  That part I was actually able to laugh out loud at. I said, "I do not have a Disorder.  I have been traumatized by a Disordered person, but I do not have a Disorder. Sorry none of the criteria fits me."

So all I can figure is that it hurt to be reprimanded, and it was just lashing out grasping at straws, or she really is the NPD, I believe her to be.

In any case, it was a tough afternoon. I think I can expect better behavior for a short time, but ultimately I am not seeing a good ending to this story. I am not paranoid, and it really felt like she was seeking to regain some sort of control this afternoon, and that she was very frustrated when all she got was an agreement to clean the floors more often...

Thank you all so much for your posts and encouragement.  It means a lot to know other people have felt this way.  I was able to "get on top of" my anxiety yesterday and write the letter.  But I woke up in the exact same anxious condition today, and so I have not yet been able to actually give it to her.

The anxiety was simply crushing my chest like a fist around my heart squeezing, and I was so scared I knew I could not have the adult conversation I needed to even to just give her the letter.  I did more push ups, took another walk and it's greatly subsided.  I feel like a grown up now instead of a petrified child who is scared to death. I hope this goes away soon because it is a very unpleasant sensation physically, and I do feel childlike terror emotionally. I haven't said much at all to her today due to this anxiety.

Maybe tomorrow.  I just want to wake up normal and calm. In my adult mind and emotions.

Thank you all so much for understanding.  I really had it bad today.  It was like a full blown anxiety attack that lasted from 7 a.m. until about 3 p.m. It sucked. But I cleaned 17 seven ft. tall windows, did 30 push ups and then took my dogs ALONE for a two mile walk and felt MUCH better.

I still have not explained or apologized for my behavior to my roommate.  I did tell her after cleaning the windows that I was having an anxiety attack, and that it was getting better, but that I felt more physical exertion was needed to work it off.  She offered me a Xanax.  Which I declined.

This has not happened to me since May of last year. But I realized I have been doing a couple things that led to it.  I was stuffing.  My roommate moved in 9/6 last year. And she is a handful.  And of course! I thought I could help her!  Well slowly it seems she has been taking over my household and all of the sudden I wake up and realize * has been going on. I saw it, yes I saw it, but I did not do a lot. Gentle hints, careful reminders. Thinking she will get it.

So tonight I do not feel bad in the least what I said to her last night.  She asked for it. She had been asked numerous times to please not yell and scream or play loud music. But she just does what she wants.  So that is not my fault. Not my stuff. So today I feel like she deserved snapping at. And what I said was not terrible. Because when I said "what if I insisted you come read my book, would you want to?"  She said no.  So I gave her a clear cut reasonable comparison to look at. Something that if she is rational she could say "okay I get it."

Mourningdove – Yes she is in terrible emotional pain but won't do anything about it except drink herself to death and pop pills.  I did think I could help her, but I can't, and I accept that. She drinks about a fifth a night.  Not kidding and combines it with Xanax and Valium on a regular basis.  It is appalling.

Schrodingerscat _ Yes I am an ISTJ.  Whatever that means I forget. But I do like and have a LOT of time to myself.  I am retired, but living with someone I am not in love with is wearing me down. I love her and I care about her, but I am not willing to sacrifice me or my family for her. Which is what it feels like she wants.  Because she's always had that. Her family did do that for her.  But yes, that insistence on ignoring us and doing whatever the * she wants just because she wants to even though she's been told it is not acceptable is NOT okay. I think THAT is why I had the melt down.  She has been told it not okay to use loud voices in the sunroom, it is not okay to play music loud outside, every word travels, sound carries here, so keep it down. She was told and told again when she first moved in.  In my anxiety, I forgot that.  But I recalled it this evening.  And yes I was most definitely having a flashback.  I had been reading Pete Walker's CPTSD book and I was flashing big time.

Marycontrary – Yes, I was stuffing for sure and forgetting what I had already asked her to do. I think I have a solution tonight.  She is not here forever just until she decides what to do.  But I am giving her an ultimatum of either abide by house rules or we cannot be roomies.  It's my house. That's why I felt so bad!  Kicking this poor homeless woman out is just plain darn mean!  But she does have options and money and I was just a place that had space and we thought it would work.

Kizzie – Yes it is disheartening to me to find so MANY PD like people in the world.  It's only 10% but my God!  Why does the whole 10% have to be in my world? My son in law, my son (who seems to be getting better with a mish mash of my attempts to use John Gray Men Are From Mars and OOTF techniques) and my NPDdad of course, and now this stranger at the hair salon and my roommate.  It's just exhausting! I really have only ONE friend who I think is totally not PD, and some days I have my doubts about him. But thank God he calls me every day.  Today he called me 3 times, and we talked and it helped. He just listens and validates me.  Which then makes me think I am PD but that's another story.

Anyway here is my very long solution, but I have written my roomie a letter which I will give to her tomorrow when she is sober.

Dear B,

I am writing you a Feeling Letter.  I am very distressed about some things that have been going on with you, and with me, and with us lately, and this is John Gray's format for dealing with such.  So I will be covering Anger, Sadness, Fear, What I Am Sorry About, What I Understand, What I Hope For and Want, and What I Appreciate About You. So without further ado:

What I Am Angry About
I am angry that you drink too much, and then get loud and obnoxious, and use obscenities at max decibel volume. I am angry that when you do that I feel invisible, and like I do not matter or count, that my feelings simply do not matter. I am angry that you don't seem to understand that it is not okay with me, despite me telling you over and over since you moved in that the neighbors can hear everything you say, and telling you that I have to live here, and get along with these people, indefinitely after you move out, and that loud noises are not okay, and you still do it.  It is distressing to me that you do not seem to care about me, my family, or my neighbors, and that loud talking and yelling obscenities in my sunroom or my backyard is simply not okay.  I have told you about sound repeatedly since you moved in, about keeping the sound down, and radio volume down, and how sound travels, and translation: so does screaming "*" at the top of your lungs.  I am angry that I have to spell it out for you. So, screaming and loud talking and yelling obscenities is NOT okay. I am angry that you get T-rashed on a regular basis, and so T-rashed that you do not seem to care who you hurt, or insult when you get that way. And, I am angry that despite all of our talks about not bossing little J around, you still get T-rashed, and you still do it.

What I Am Sad About
I am sad that I do not feel like you can hear me.  I am sad that despite my talks about loud sounds, and verbal clues, and hints like ignoring you, or not talking to you, you still act this way.  I am sad that it doesn't seem to matter what I say or do, you do it anyway.  I am sad that despite all of our talks about little J you still boss him around, like we never talked about it.  I am sad that you probably don't remember half of what I have said.  I am sad you drink and drug so much that you probably don't remember about half of your life. But I do, and it is not pretty, and it is very sad. I am sad that you will not get some professional help. I am sad that it appears you are * bent on killing my friend, and trying to kill our relationship while you are at it on your way down and out. I am sad that it is starting to hurt me a lot. So I am sad I cannot help you. I really wanted to, and not being able to makes me very sad.

What I Am Afraid Of
I am afraid to tell you these things, as I don't want to hurt you.  But I am more afraid of you hurting me, and hurting J, and hurting little J so I am going to say them. I am more afraid of you killing yourself if I don't say them.  I am afraid that it won't matter what I say, you are still not going to stop. I am afraid that I have already said so much, and it did not matter, so I am afraid it won't matter this time either. I am afraid you will not get some professional help, and I am afraid you are going to die way younger than you should have.

What I Am Sorry For
I am sorry I cannot seem to communicate effectively to you how serious I am about these two things: noise and little J.  I am sorry I have to get in your face about it with this letter.  I am sorry all my talks about sound, and hints and clues did not work, or convey how serious I am about it.  I am sorry I cannot seem to help you or have any impact on you.  I am sorry you do not seem to be finding anything to hold on to.  I am sorry you do not seem interested in getting some help. I am sorry I feel so helpless to help you. I am sorry it does not seem like there is anything I can do to help. I am sorry I do not know what to do to help you.

What I Understand
I understand that you are going through *.  I understand that you feel like you have to drink and drug to drown your pain. But I also understand that living that way does not work for me. I do understand your pain, but I also understand if you will not help yourself there is nothing I can do. I understand that if you will not abide by the house rules then we cannot live together. I understand that it is hard to live in a house where you are not in charge. I understand it is hard to not know where or what you will do next.  I understand you need time to make a good decision.  I understand you would like T to be finished with school before you have to make that decision. I understand your life is in a state of flux and it is very stressful.  But I understand that it is not my job to fix it.  I understand all I can do is help and support you. But I also understand that I am not going to have another anxiety attack because of you disregarding the house rules. I understand that I am not going to disregard myself and my needs for a peaceful calm home, just so that you can drink and drug and be obnoxious. I understand that you will think I am judging you, but I am not, I am trying to care about all of us, and do what is best for all of us.  I understand you may think I am a party pooper, and just not very much fun. But I also understand that if you keep this up, you are not going to be around much longer to think any of those things about me.

What I Hope For And What I Want
I want you to respect the house rules and stop yelling and screaming and loud talking outside, and in the sunroom.  I want you to stop giving little J directives. I want you to come to big J or to me if you want to see a change in little J's behavior and let us take care of it.  I do want you take action if you see little J's safety is in danger, but that is all.  I want you to get help with your problems.  I want you to get counseling for your grief, and help with your addictions, or at least start trying to help yourself, do some self help.  I want you to be happy.  I want to be happy.  I want big J to be happy.  I want little J to be happy. I want us to work things out and I want you to be able to stay here as long as you need to. I hope we can work things out so that all of us can be happy. I want you to find purpose and meaning in your life.  I want you to feel needed and safe and happy. And I want the same for myself and my family. I want to work this out for everyone. Including you, but I am going to need your help.  I cannot do this on my own.

What I Appreciate About You
This list could get quite long.  I appreciate that you take care of your things and your bathroom and I do not have to worry about it.  I appreciate all of your wonderful cooking and things I have learned from you.  I appreciate your friendship and having a friend to talk to.  I appreciate the care you take with parking and always being concerned about little J and I being able to get him to school on time.  I appreciate you respecting my solar power program and taking the time to understand how it works and why I do the things around here the way I do.  I appreciate being similar in temperament about having a cold room to sleep in.  I appreciate your generous sharing nature, and how much you try to share with us – books, food, knowledge.  I appreciate you taking me in for Thanksgiving.  I appreciate all of the wonderful new experiences I have had with you – vacations and travel and new sights and new scenery. I appreciate how you clean up SO MUCH that is not your responsibility, and you do it with a light and happy heart. I appreciate how much of the time you do keep us, the family as a whole in mind, and try to do what is best for all of us. I appreciate how much you like to travel, and how it either gives us a break from each other, or something new to learn together.  I appreciate that you have your own interests and friends and I am not caretaking you.  I appreciate your independence, and your ability to take care of yourself much of the time. I appreciate you driving me around while I was blind, and taking me and little J where we needed to go.

I do appreciate you very much B, and I hope so very much that we can make a couple of changes and things will be fine.  Fine for all of us. But, it is going to have to be fine for all of us, or it is not going to work. This is why the other night I would not give you a straight answer about you staying on here.  We have got to work this out first before I can make that agreement.  I cannot go on as we have been any longer. And if you simply cannot agree, then we will need to part, but it will be as loving friends who simply agree to disagree.

Please think on this, and do know that I am well aware there may be things that you are unhappy about as well, and I am open to hearing your grievances too.  This is a two way street. There are a lot of wishes and hopes and dreams in this letter.  But two things are simply not negotiable.  The noise and the little J. The rest is up to you, your decision, and ultimately not my business. They are just my wishes for you, as your friend who cares about you.

Love from your friend

Very Foggy

I have never posted here.  I normally post in OOTF on Unchosen and that has been some serious work    But it seems like now that I am OOTF I am having so many troubles in so many other parts of my life.  I feel today surrounded by N's with nowhere to turn and everything, everything is just triggering, triggering and there is just no peace to be had.  So I went NC with an NPD Unchosen, but it seems that was only the tip of the iceberg.  It feels like many more N's are lurking, eager to take the place of the Unchosen NPD that I am NC with.

This is going to sound silly to so many of you, but I don't know where else to post.  I went to get my hair done a couple of days ago.  My hairdresser is definitely codependent, but is finally getting a divorce. She rents space in her salon to others who have a clientele.  She calls this new coworker woman in, and says something very dramatic to her to set her off.  In hindsight, it's almost like she's showcasing this woman, wants me and my sister (we get our hair done together every 6 weeks) to see how crazy this woman is.  The woman does not disappoint.  She comes into the space and starts ranting and raving about how great she is for taking care of a nephew's friend and what she did for him, and how awful the kid's parents are, and how ignored she felt by the kid's grandparents and how everyone took advantage of her by not keeping her in the loop and not telling her that they were buying him a bus pass, and how she was so upset because she did not know if they'd given him money for food, or she was going to have to make him lunch, and how wonderful she was to take him to the bus and put him on it.  On, and on, and on. 

This woman was standing, I was sitting and she kept looking at me trying to make eye contact with me the whole time she was talking and I refused to do so. I just would not look at her.  I guess I was hoping that if she saw a total stranger ignore her, then she would get the point her story was not welcome and I did not want to hear it.  But it did not work.  But it REALLY upset me and triggered me badly. It was my Ndad all over again ranting and ranting and raving and looking for approval and appreciation and just sucking the air out of the room, just draining everyone emotionally.

How am I supposed to handle that?  I seriously considered getting up and just walking out. Not saying a word, just walking out.  Later when I was in the chair and trapped getting color put on she came back in again and told another story of how great and awesome she was, and I was just sick. I did not know what to do or how to make it stop. I couldn't stand it, but I was trapped.  In the chair. So I sat quietly looking down and waiting for her to finish.  With my stomach churning.

Then last night a showdown with my room mate. My room mate came into the smoking room and she asked if she could watch the game on TV, and I was reading but I said yes. And I was a bit nervous about it. But I said okay.  And it starts inevitably.  The cursing, the yelling at the TV.  I am reading, and with difficulty managing to concentrate but I am struggling.  I am losing my control.  I get up several times and go walk around inside the house, and do deep breathing like the book said to do. But I come back out to MY smoking room because I want to smoke and read my book and it is on my PC and my PC is hooked up in the smoking room. But, I feel violated, and stepped on and disregarded. It's a combination of the loudness and the language.  But I am okay to hang on, until she starts talking to me.  I am reading and processing possibly being sexually abused and digging deeply and painfully into my memories.  And then she says something and I ask "Are you talking to me?"  She says yes, I want you to look at this guy on the TV, look at him, the short one on the right."  I said "B that guy has no meaning to me I am not listening and I am busy, I am reading a book."  She says insisting now, "Just look at him, this is what my nephew J could be doing if he got into the right sports market." I blew. I said, "You wanted to watch TV, and that was fine with me, but I wanted to read my book.  Asking me to look at this guy on TV is the same as if I insisted you come over here and start reading my book. Do you want to read my book?"  She knew something was wrong at that point and apologized.  Then I said, "I am happy to share the room with you, but I do not care to pay attention to the TV right now.  I dealing with some deep stuff and I am really going through some stuff right now."  She says, "Well that's all you have to say, that you don't feel like talking."  Then she adds "If you need somebody or some help let me know."

And that's it.  Now I am furious, I am so angry because in some weird way I feel like she made me mad, and made me talk sharply to her, which is NOT true. And it's on for me.  The night is ruined. She changes the channel, turns down the volume and settles down to a much lower volume of talking to herself. And I try to ask about American Idol to try a bit to make up. Then go to bed with some fiction to read, and end up getting up and taking melatonin, then taking Nyquil, and then smoking a cigarette on the deck outside alone, and then reading my book some more, to try to knock myself out. But I am roiling.

And wake up this morning in a full blown CPTSD flashback, with inner critic chatter, incessant chatter in my head, and even before I get up I am yelling STOP in my mind to the chatter.

So my point is, that I am getting these triggers all of the time from my roommate. She is so abrasive, and so loud, and so unhappy and so angry with the world. And she uses profanity a lot at max volume. She talks to herself non stop and it is difficult to tell when she is actually talking to me and not just herself. She is an alcoholic and occasionally abuses pills in combination with the alcohol, and can be so obnoxious that I end up confronting her the next day.  The talk always starts, "What do you remember about last night." Answer, "Nothing" It is nerve wracking to live with her.  And even a loud mouth stranger just ratchets up my anxiety level to the point I want to run, just run.

And I don't know what to do.  I feel like I am just ruined, not fit for human companionship anymore, because I find it hard to get along with these aggressive type people for more than an hour or so.  But, the fact is neither of these women abused me for years.  But their small boundary invasions feel like an army marched into my soul and started taking over and I don't know how to handle it.

My reaction seems, feels inappropriate. And I feel like a bad person because there does not seem to be room for me and them in my life. I just cannot tolerate the behavior, and that feels like I am the wrong one, and the bad one.  And if I was a good enough person I could get along with them. But I just get angry instead and feel violated.

And over the top anxious and self critical and I need some advice. Should I be able to get along with my room mate no matter what? How do I handle a stranger treating me like a public verbal vomit receptacle? A place where it is okay if she regurgitates? And same for the roommate really.  Sometimes it feels like she is just vomiting all over me and I can't take it and I feel like I should be able to take it. I feel like a normal person would be able to tolerate it.

And I just vomited all over you.  Sorry, I guess stuff does roll downhill.