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Messages - anosognosia

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I recently found out that the Narcs in my family view my NC as an attempt to manipulate them into doing something.  It was absolutely astounding!  My reasons for NC are to protect my sanity and myself!  Period!

But upon further reflection I understood (if you can believe that I understood the mind of a PD) why they would think such a thing.  And it is because if THEY went NC with anyone?  It would be a manipulation ploy, just a tool to try to get what they wanted from the other person. it would be a control thing and they would have no feelings or emotions about it.

So even my NC is misunderstood by the PD's, and they think it's a joke, just something I am doing to try to manipulate them.  They have no understanding of the grief, and loss, and the mourning that accompanies my decision to go NC. The sadness that what I hoped we could have can never be and never even existed.  They simply cannot understand it.

Totally! In the end, for Narcs, it's all about them and how things affect them!

Also, usually when someone has a theory on someone else's behaviour, it's usually thought out within the paradigm with which THEY would think & operate.  Like you said, the only way they would understand NC is as a manipulation tool. 

Ugh, so frustrating. So infuriating.  I wish you as much mental and physical distance that circumstances allow VF!!!!!!     

Reading some of the earlier posts from others makes me realize I also have a triggered anger (not relationship/separation anxiety related) which stems from people saying narcissist-type remarks. They are definitely triggering.

One of my colleagues is less than modest (though usually the least "achieving of our cohort") and is known to make comments like "UGH everyone here is below my intelligence level". When something unfortunate happened to another colleague this person laughed at them to their face and said "Wow this is not a good day for you" with a belittling smile.  Most of my colleagues just brush it off but this sometimes grinds away at me for hours and sometimes days.

My T suggested it reminds me of my narent (F), which I would agree with.
I am also bothered by the fact that the person is very loud and boisterous about being "smarter and better" than everyone else, when objectively speaking this is not true. I know this is very deeply entangled with my narental parent, I think the fact that this person is allowed to get away with it also categorically bothers me.


Ano - Have you finished grieving? If you have worked through your anger then sadness is absolutely the next step in many cases. Grieving a long complex process.  I did it in one year, but it was all I did for a year, so I pushed it on fast forward. Anger cannot be sustained, and if you have worked through it is gone.  I have no anger towards my Ndad anymore either.  None.  I really feel nothing at all towards him, except compassion.

But I am back to my boundary stuff again.  I continue to believe that if I can set the right boundaries and enforce them, then I may not ever have another EF again.  Or maybe I am just delusional.  Sigh.
VF, yeah I guess I'm through a big bulk of the anger, as currently the pool seems depleted inside of me. I try to reach inside and there's nothing.

I'm kind of 70% through my grieving. The big waves have come and gone (it took several months of lots of crying in therapy and almost daily at home.

I still sometimes feel sad for myself, and for "the state I find myself in" and how disconnected I feel from the rest of my high achieving professional colleagues and friends. It comes in waves now, less frequently, often triggered by stories or TV shows or people I encounter.

Kizzie, ugh,  :doh:, I guess that's why they are delusional narcissists.  I don't know if they are capable of feeling shame/remorse/humility. If they do admit to some sort of flaw then they do it in a very matyrical/biblical way as a grand gesture which of course is all about them and their self image.

Ugh VF I'm so sorry to hear that. Sounds like your current environment is heavily peppered with narcissists. Suffocating!

I agree with bowing out for a while, I haven't had contact with my most severe narent in 1.5 years. Best quality of life since I've been born.

The Cafe / Re: Today I realized that...
« on: April 18, 2015, 11:28:19 PM »
I have a real driving phobia because it exposes me fully and it's an open invitation to be ridiculed and live up to the "female bad driver" stereotype. I'm terrified of being honked at, or yelled at, or otherwise attacked.  It's my terrified state just like when I lived with my FOO.

I want to overcome this phobia so I am more functional in society by having a car!
It's a debilitating fear.

The Cafe / Re: Today I feel...
« on: April 18, 2015, 11:27:00 PM »
Unmotivated (got sick AGAIN!) and still having a lot to do (things I want to do vs things I should do are weighing me down).

Annegirl the invitation is to feel empowered to share as little and as much as you want. Your silence on the topic itself is a respectable testament to your journey of healing.

I live with a lot of shame and it's manifested itself into many pathological patterns. I sometimes (once a year or so) binge eat and then throw up.  That's a sensational example.
More regularly though, on a daily basis, I live with the attitude of "I'm wrong, I have to seek redemption", so I start at -50 when everyone starts their day at 0 or above in terms of mood/self image.
It weighs down heavily on me and I have a tendency to withdraw, and only display/express myself in very controlled platforms like social media which I'm addicted to.

C, my F used to just barge in, without knocking. Even when I was a 14 year old girl with all the privacy that I was trying to figure out for myself. I put up a sign "please knock" and it got ripped off. It set him into a rage fit which terrified me.

And as for the poster above who said:
This is an interesting question, but to me it is only the tip of the iceberg.  Because even if I DO effectively dissipate the anger through safe ways of expressing it such as writing, walking, swimming, and yelling in the car?  I am still left with the same problem that I originally started out with. I have been mistreated, and I know I must DO something.  But what? What am I supposed to do? After the anger is gone, I still have the same problem I started out with.  I have been mistreated.

I totally feel this way too. It's so hard to accept the injustice as is, accepting that there will not be an appropriate retribution, and that feeling that "they owe/d me".  It just makes me so sad and I start to cry. 

I'm currently a little exhausted post-anger and post-grief over this process. (The book from Judith Herman "Trauma and Recovery" really helped me move to the next level.)

I also think the best form of moving on is to leave that "you wronged me, so you owe me" dichotomy and live a life independent of any entanglement towards them. Because in some ways when you remain with anger and sadness you are still paying them emotional energy which they don't really deserve to get from you.

All of this is easier said than done, by fourhundredthousand fold, but I want to get there somehow....

**and as for how I direct my anger, I usually cry. I also run a lot more than I normally can. 

I have found it quite difficult to get in touch with my anger towards my parents.

1.5 years ago when I last spoke to my F in person, he made the remark that he had been "an exemplary parent". This triggered a huge rage fit in me where I started to shake and had fantasies of throwing dishes against the wall. 

Since then, therapy has brought up a few nights of anger and rage and tears. 

Those moments have passed, however, and I am once again unable to get in touch with my anger - or maybe, I don't have much left at the moment as I tend to much more sad than angry. 

Anger is such a powerful emotion, whereas sadness is a raw vulnerable open wound. Anger covers that up and protects me, and since I'm not exactly good at protecting myself....

This may be slightly off topic, but a lot of times it's my flight or fight response which gets all tangled up when I feel highly anxious. Mostly the triggers are my romantic relationships. I'm sure later it will be my children too.

It's this extreme state of duress where I fear my emotional safety is in danger, and it sometimes manifests itself into anger spells.  A lot of times it's bottled in with shame so I oftentimes am unable to express it face to face. It creeps up in emailmessages, texts, etc.

I don't like it. Sometimes it's uncontrollable. Oftentimes it induces a lot of emotional pain. It's very very deep and out of proportion with the situation that triggers it. That's when I know it's something within me related to my past.

I'm just starting to learn to take a step to the side and observe what is happening with my emotions.

I can now face the idea that I was alone and abused and it doesn't knock me to my knees or take my breath away as it once did -- and not all  that long ago.  I think last year when I had the really bad bout of drinking and panic attacks is when I finally admitted to myself that I had grown up alone, an emotional orphan I just didn't realize clearly until I read through the instructions for this step that that was what had happened. 

Anyway, I do remember that it was then that I finally let go of the last vestiges of hope of ever getting the parents I needed and wanted.

This resonates with me beyond the eloquence of the prose.

It took me a long time to accept and face what I had lived through, and to realize I was all alone... in all honesty only hit me when I gave my testament to you guys in a PM and it was reflected back to me. 

I also love how someone wrote on here that there's nothing that could have been done as a child to prevent the abuse. As it was THEIR actions, not ours. 

My father and I haven't talked in a few years, and my M contacts me once a month or so.

Last week I missed a phone call where she left a message. I wanted to say:
"Why do you call me? I find it to be a very phony pretense to act like we have a rapport.

What do you want from me? Whatever it is I wish for you to identify it and give it to yourself. It's a little hypocritical of you to be needy with me, because the way I was raised - I needed a lot from you, and I didn't really get those needs met."

I have never asked for my children to be grateful, but i have expressed gratitude to them, my husband and G-d. and our children regularly thank my husband and i for things.


I felt very alone growing up. I felt like everything I needed I had to give myself.
I needed comfort, so I made up rituals to comfort myself.
I needed emotional support, so I told myself they are invalid emotions to have, so I buried those needs, in order live with a rule that excuses my caretaker's neglect. 
I needed love, but I would only get attention, and only if my marks were great.
I could not have my own thoughts or opinions, so I adopted their belief system and became a pious footsoldier of their regime.

It was very emotionally damaging.

C., you're leaps and bounds ahead of what I want to say to them. I wish I could have come up with that myself... one day I may be!

My god VeryFoggy, I'm so very sorry you lived through this. No one should ever be subjected to such torture (emotionally, physically). Let alone a child.

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