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...a wonderful and very loving husband and son.

Note:   This thread was originally in the Discussion Topic of the month (Feb 2016). 

This topic has been moved to General Discussion.

http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3446.0

This absolutely blew me away - http://www.contemporarypsychotherapy.org/volume-7-no-1-summer-2015/interview-martin-miller/. 

I found myself saying "This could not be, it's Alice Miller for heaven's sake!"  I realized then how invalidated her son must have felt throughout his life if I as someone who experienced a similar situation had trouble with the notion his well known mother was abusive.  I hope his book comes out in English at some point.

Actually, I should probably title this feeling abandoned  and lonely.  Pete Walker talks about abandonment depression in his book "CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" and I came face-to-face with mine again at Christmas as I posted elsewhere. My son was coming for two weeks - he goes to university across the country so we don't get to see him all that often anymore.  Before he arrived I had an EF and realized after some reflection that I was afraid to enjoy my time with him fully lest he abandon/reject me; old abandonment feelings from childhood had bubbled up. 

Once I figured that out. I could then reassure myself, calm younger me directly then  let myself connect with him and have a wonderful time with him and my H.  I realized really clearly through this experience how much I have held back over the years, keeping somewhat distance from the joy of my FOC in case I were to lose them.  I know my H and S love me dearly,  but the fear of being  abandoned runs so very deep.  It's one reason I haven't wanted to connect too deeply with friends before either.  But I have worked through much of it and will keep on doing so now that I know what's going on. 
 
Here's an exercise i found in Walker's (2013) book that relates to abandonment.

Visualize yourself as time-traveling back to a place in the past when you felt especially abandoned. See your adult self taking your abandoned child onto your lap and comforting her .... "I feel such sorrow that you were so abandoned and that you felt so alone so much of the time. I love you even more when you are stuck in this abandonment pain - especially because you had to ensure it for so long with no-one to comfort you. That shouldn't have happened to you.  It shouldn't happen to any child. Let me comfort you and hold you. You don't have to rush to get over it.  It is not your fault. You didn't cause it and you're not to blame. You don't have to do anything. Just let me hold you.  Take your time.  I love you always and care about you no matter what."

I highly recommend practicing this even if it feels inauthentic, and even if it requires a great deal of fending off your inner critic.  Keep practicing and eventually, you will have a genuine experience of feeling self-compassion for he traumatized child you were. When that occurs, you will know that your recovery work has reached a deep level (pp. 240-241)

My H and I just watched this last night and one line that popped right out for me was when one of the victims told the Spotlight reporters that not only had he been sexually abused, his faith had been taken from him - a double loss.   

Good movie if you haven't seen it yet.  Made my blood boil and my heart sing at the same time.

I did post about this earlier in the fall and got some positive feedback, but  then work got busy and I didn't get back to it.  Anyway, I'd like to revisit the idea of looking for guests to answer questions about CPTSD.  For example, I did ask Pete Walker (author of "CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving") if he would and unfortunately he is busy writing a new book just now, but did say he would once he was finished. 

If you have any thoughts on this positive or negative, please weigh in here (or PM me).  If it is something you are interested in, who might you be like to have as a guest(s)?

OK, so yesterday I went for some dental surgery and let my NPDM know I would be offline (we have a LC email thing going).   I emailed today to let her know I was done, am a bit worse for wear and look puffy like a chipmunk.  So she emails this back - honestly you just have to laugh!

omg I had my teeth out almost 62 years ago & still remember, never did like going to the dentist. The last visit he decided to pull the 11 remaining teeth. Then I had to take a bus home from xx to xx, walk a mile to pick S up from the neighbour. We had no car. Anyway she took one look at me ...called her husband to go get Dad then pick us up. I sure looked like a mess with my mouth full of stuffing. Felt ok till the freezing came out

Now I wonder why I always felt sorry for her?  I never realized consciously for years that she stole my moments, good or bad.  When I was sick and in need of attention I always felt I shouldn't complain as she always  had it twice as bad.  Nowadays it strikes me as so completely obvious I wonder how I didn't see it before. Anyway, I have let go of the need for any genuine concern from her and that really helps in recovery so I honestly did laugh when I saw the email.  My H was absolutely wonderful at caring for me yesterday and that reminds me to look at what I have now instead of what I lost.

I don't know about any of you, but I imagine I am in good company when I say that the holidays are triggering for me, sometimes subtly.  I am not around my NPD FOO anymore so that has been much less of a source. That said, my NPD M still managed to send along some drama long distance in an email about her current battles with my NPDB (not getting enough attention from him). Sigh, they never change but it wasn't that that triggered me.   

As I wrote elsewhere, it was my son coming home.  Very strange as we get along really well and were all looking forward to seeing one another.  So I dug down and there is some old and awful abandonment depression, that cold gray nowhereland I inhabited for long.  It has receded for the most part, but add in some "holidays were dangerous" trauma memories, being busy because of work and voila, it rises to the surface.

It's a bit different than the danger of being in my FOO.  Then holidays then were dangerous because everyone was emotional and there was always a spark that would set it off and blam, drama x 10, always.  Now, it's dangerous or so my Inner Critic was trying to convince me, because if I am too happy, if I relax and enjoy the holidays with my FOC I  am putting myself in danger of being abandoned like as I was when I was a child.  Hunh?   Did not see that one coming but it makes perfect sense if you have CPTSD. I doubt I would have been able to clearly figure what was happening, why and then do something about it even last year but before that for sure.   So, hallelujah for recovery. It's been a bumpy road, but well worth it.   

Anyway, I thought this might be a good thread to start about managing (or not) the holidays.  I should say that until recently I did not manage the holidays well for most of my life. It was always a time for EFs, big ones and as you know that is not something to look forward to so holidays, especially Christmas have had a real sense of dread attached to them.

This topic has been moved to Dissociation.

http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3310.0

My work life has ramped up and will stay that way until the end of Dec so I won't be present much in the forums.  However, I do check daily for PM's and will continue to manage any admin matters and help with moderating as need be. 

Thanks to each of you for keeping this a safe and respectful community dedicated to recovery from CPTSD 

I was just thinking this morning about this and I would have to say mine is to continue to process my pain and work on integration, bringing all the parts of my psyche  that have essentially stood on their own and went into action when the situation called for it to come together and work more smoothly, and much more calmly lol. 

We just had an election here in Canada this week and I absolutely loved something our Prime Minister elect said in his acceptance speech about the other two main parties:  "They are not our enemies, they are our neighbours."  It reminded me that what has worked well in recovery for me is recognizing that the different parts of my psyche each have a role and flourish when I treat them with respect, value their contributions, and create an inner environment where I can call on  appropriate, healthy responses rather than the trauma responses I used previously to survive. When I fight against them I simply do not progress. 

So I guess my main goal right now is to run a positive campaign in a country that is used to adversarial governance    

Here are some resources about parenting and trauma to explore.  If you have any to add please post them in this thread or PM me - tks!

• Parenting as a Survivor- Article from The Mama Bear Affect, a site for and about survivors of childhood sexual abuse
• Hand in Hand Parenting - Lots of great resources at this site regarding positive, healthy parenting
• Parenting with PTSD: Building Trauma Informed Families - https://parentingwithptsd.wordpress.com/
• A Love Letter to Cycle Breaking Heroes - http://www.motherhoodandmore.com/2015/12/a-love-letter-to-the-cycle-breakers.html
• Parenting with PTSD - https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/traumaptsdblog/parenting-with-ptsd-trauma-ptsd
• 10 Things I've Learned About Parenting with PTSD - https://themighty.com/2017/08/things-ive-learned-about-parenting-with-ptsd/
• Talking to Kids about Personality Disorders - http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/TalkingToKids.html
• Parallel Parenting - http://www.outofthefog.net/SeparatingAndDivorcing/ParallelParenting.html
• Parental Alienation and Parental Alienation Syndrome - http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/ParentalAlienationSyndrome.html

[Books]

Complex PTSD is a traumatic stress injury which may develop in childhood or adulthood.  It results from ongoing or repeated trauma of an interpersonal nature (e.g., emotional/sexual/physical abuse; neglect/abandonment; domestic violence, harassment) over which the child or adult has little or no control, and from which there is no real or perceived hope of escape. 

This accumulation of trauma distinguishes Complex PTSD from the better known Post Traumatic Stress Order (PTSD) in which trauma typically involves a single, impersonal event or a group of events of limited duration (e.g., witnessing a tragedy, being the victim of a car accident, short term military combat exposure). 

Despite being identified by Dr. Judith Herman in the 1990's in her book "Trauma and Recovery", CPTSD only became official in 2018 when it was approved by the World Health Organization for it's diagnostic manual the ICD-11.  As of 2023 CPTSD is still not in the American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic manual (DSM).

We use the term "Complex Relational Trauma Response" (CRTR) interchangeably with CPTSD because although it is not an official diagnosis, it better reflects what we suffer from. That is, we are not disordered rather our symptoms are a response to abuse/neglect inflicted on us by others.Also, the word "relational" distinguishes our abuse from other types of complex trauma so it is clear we are survivors of interpersonal abuse/neglect.  Finally, the word "post' is left out because for many of us trauma is not in the past but continues in the present.   

Books - Click here

Research - Click here

Forms, Checklists & Information Handouts- Click here to download

Articles

• 7 Psychological Impacts of Surviving Childhood Trauma by Annie Wright, Aug 2018. (Added June 2019)
• How Did I Get Complex PTSD? by Pete Walker (Note: Scroll down)
• Complex PTSD: Response to Prolonged Trauma
• Impact of Complex Trauma {on Children} from the {US} National Child Traumatic Stress Network
• Complex Trauma - Dr. C. Courtois; http://giftfromwithin.org/html/cptsd-understanding-treatment.html
• "Judith Herman and the Formulation of C-PTSD":  http://traumainform.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/judith-herman-and-the-formulation-of-c-ptsd/.  (Includes a video of an interview with Judith Herman)
• Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - http://traumadissociation.com/complexptsd#complex-post-traumatic-stress-disorderTrauma

Many of us find ourselves needing to take a break from reading and talking, but being the guilty people we are (hopefully less and less ), we may not feel quite comfortable about doing so.  Here's a great article that may help with lowering the guilt and validating why taking a break is a "good" or natural thing to do in recovery. 

http://www.traumahealed.com/articles/take-a-break-from-healing.html

[The Fawn Type and the Codependent Defense]

The Fawn Type and the Codependent Defense - by Pete Walker

Fawn types seek safety by merging with the wishes, needs and demands of others. They act as if they unconsciously believe that the price of admission to any relationship is the forfeiture of all their needs, rights, preferences and boundaries. They often begin life like the precocious children described in Alice Miler's The Drama Of The Gifted Child, who learn that a modicum of safety and attachment can be gained by becoming the helpful and compliant servants of their parents. They are usually the children of at least one narcissistic parent who uses contempt to press them into service, scaring and shaming them out of developing a healthy sense of self: an egoic locus of self-protection, self-care and self-compassion. This dynamic is explored at length in my East Bay Therapist article (Jan/Feb2003): "Codependency, Trauma and The Fawn Response" (see www.pete-walker.com).

TX. Fawn types typically respond well to being psychoeducated in this model. This is especially true when the therapist persists in helping them recognize and renounce the repetition compulsion that draws them to narcissistic types who exploit them. Therapy also naturally helps them to shrink their characteristic listening defense as they are guided to widen and deepen their self-expression. I have seen numerous inveterate codependents finally progress in their assertiveness and boundary-making work, when they finally got that even the thought of expressing a preference or need triggers an emotional flashback of such intensity that they completely dissociate from their knowledge of and ability to express what they want. Role-playing assertiveness in session and attending to the stultifying inner critic processes it triggers helps the codependent build a healthy ego. This is especially true when the therapist interprets, witnesses and validates how the individual as a child was forced to put to death so much of her individual self. Grieving these losses further potentiates the developing ego.

Full article available at http://pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

[The Freeze Type and the Dissociative Defense]

The Freeze Type and the Dissociative Defense - by Pete Walker

Many freeze types unconsciously believe that people and danger are synonymous, and that safety lies in solitude. Outside of fantasy, many give up entirely on the possibility of love. The freeze response, also known as the camouflage response, often triggers the individual into hiding, isolating and eschewing human contact as much as possible. This type can be so frozen in retreat mode that it seems as if their starter button is stuck in the "off" position. It is usually the most profoundly abandoned child - "the lost child" - who is forced to "choose" and habituate to the freeze response (the most primitive of the 4Fs). Unable to successfully employ fight, flight or fawn responses, the freeze type's defenses develop around classical dissociation, which allows him to disconnect from experiencing his abandonment pain, and protects him from risky social interactions - any of which might trigger feelings of being reabandoned. Freeze types often present as ADD; they seek refuge and comfort in prolonged bouts of sleep, daydreaming, wishing and right brain-dominant activities like TV, computer and video games. They master the art of changing the internal channel whenever inner experience becomes uncomfortable. When they are especially traumatized or triggered, they may exhibit a schizoid-like detachment from ordinary reality.

TX: There are at least three reasons why freeze types are the most difficult 4F defense to treat. First, their positive relational experiences are few if any, and they are therefore extremely reluctant to enter the relationship of therapy; moreover, those who manage to overcome this reluctance often spook easily and quickly terminate. Second, they are harder to psychoeducate about the trauma basis of their complaints because, like many fight types, they are unconscious of their fear and their torturous inner critic. Also, like the fight type, the freeze type tends to project the perfectionistic demands of the critic onto others rather than the self, and uses the imperfections of others as justification for isolation. The critic's processes of perfectionism and endangerment, extremely unconscious in freeze types, must be made conscious and deconstructed as described in detail in my aforementioned article on shrinking the inner critic. Third, even more than workaholic flight types, freeze types are in denial about the life narrowing consequences of their singular adaptation. Because the freeze response is on a continuum that ends with the collapse response (the extreme abandonment of consciousness seen in prey animals about to be killed), many appear to be able to self-medicate by releasing the internal opioids that the animal brain is programmed to release when danger is so great that death seems immanent. The opioid production of the collapse or extreme freeze response can only take the individual so far however, and these types are therefore prone to sedating substance addictions. Many self-medicating types are often drawn to marijuana and narcotics, while others may gravitate toward ever escalating regimes of anti-depressants and anxiolytics. Moreover, when they are especially unremediated and unattached, they can devolve into increasing depression and, in worst case scenarios, into the kind of mental illness described in the book, I Never Promised You A Rose Garden.

Available at: http://pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

[The Flight Type and the Obsessive-Compulsive Defense]

The Flight Type and the Obsessive-Compulsive Defense - by Pete Walker

Flight types appear as if their starter button is stuck in the "on" position. They are obsessively and compulsively driven by the unconscious belief that perfection will make them safe and loveable. As children, flight types respond to their family trauma somewhere along a hyperactive continuum that stretches between the extremes of the driven "A" student and the ADHD dropout running amok. They relentlessly flee the inner pain of their abandonment and lack of attachment with the symbolic flight of constant busyness.

When the obsessive/compulsive flight type is not doing, she is worrying and planning about doing. Flight types are prone to becoming addicted to their own adrenalization, and many recklessly and regularly pursue risky and dangerous activities to keep their adrenalin-high going. These types are also as susceptible to stimulating substance addictions, as they are to their favorite process addictions: workaholism and busyholism. Severely traumatized flight types may devolve into severe anxiety and panic disorders.

TX: Many flight types are so busy trying to stay one step ahead of their pain that introspecting out loud in the therapy hour is the only time they find to take themselves seriously. While psychoeducation is important and essential to all the types, flight types particularly benefit from it. Nowhere is this truer than in the work of learning to deconstruct their overidentification with the perfectionistic demands of their inner critic. Gently and repetitively confronting denial and minimization about the costs of perfectionism is essential, especially with workaholics who often admit their addiction to work but secretly hold onto it as a badge of pride and superiority. Deeper work with flight types - as with all types -gradually opens them to grieving their original abandonment and all its concomitant losses. Egosyntonic crying is an unparalleled tool for shrinking the obsessive perseverations of the critic and for ameliorating the habit of compulsive rushing. As recovery progresses, flight types can acquire a "gearbox" that allows them to engage life at a variety of speeds, including neutral. Flight types also benefit from using mini-minute meditations to help them identify and deconstruct their habitual "running". I teach such clients to sit comfortably, systemically relax, breathe deeply and diaphragmatically, and ask themselves questions such as: "What is my most important priority right now?", or when more time is available: "What hurt am I running from right now? Can I open my heart to the idea and image of soothing myself in my pain?" Finally, there are numerous flight types who exhibit symptoms that may be misperceived as cyclothymic bipolar disorder; I address this issue at length in my article: "Managing Abandonment Depression in Complex PTSD".

[The Fight Type and the Narcissistic Defense]

The Fight Type and the Narcissistic Defense - by Pete Walker

Fight types are unconsciously driven by the belief that power and control can create safety, assuage abandonment and secure love. Children who are spoiled and given insufficient limits (a uniquely painful type of abandonment) and children who are allowed to imitate the bullying of a narcissistic parent may develop a fixated fight response to being triggered. These types learn to respond to their feelings of abandonment with anger and subsequently use contempt, a toxic amalgam of narcissistic rage and disgust, to intimidate and shame others into mirroring them and into acting as extensions of themselves. The entitled fight type commonly uses others as an audience for his incessant monologizing, and may treat a "captured" freeze or fawn type as a slave or prisoner in a dominance-submission relationship. Especially devolved fight types may become sociopathic, ranging along a continuum that stretches between corrupt politician and vicious criminal.
TX: Treatable fight types benefit from being psychoeducated about the prodigious price they pay for controlling others with intimidation. Less injured types are able to see how potential intimates become so afraid and/or resentful of them that they cannot manifest the warmth or real liking the fight type so desperately desires. I have helped a number of fight types understand the following downward spiral of power and alienation: excessive use of power triggers a fearful emotional withdrawal in the other, which makes the fight type feel even more abandoned and, in turn, more outraged and contemptuous, which then further distances the "intimate", which in turn increases their rage and disgust, which creates increasing distance and withholding of warmth, ad infinitem. Fight types need to learn to notice and renounce their habit of instantly morphing abandonment feelings into rage and disgust. As they become more conscious of their abandonment feelings, they can focus on and feel their abandonment fear and shame without transmuting it into rage or disgust - and without letting grandiose overcompensations turn it into demandingness.

Unlike the other 4Fs, fight types assess themselves as perfect and project the inner critic's perfectionistic processes onto others, guaranteeing themselves an endless supply of justifications to rage. Fight types need to see how their condescending, moral-high-ground position alienates others and perpetuates their present time abandonment. Learning to take self-initiated timeouts at the first sign of triggering is an invaluable tool for them to acquire. Timeouts can be used to accurately redirect the lion's share of their hurt feelings into grieving and working through their original abandonment, rather than displacing it destructively onto current intimates. Furthermore, like all 4F fixations, fight types need to become more flexible and adaptable in using the other 4F responses to perceived danger, especially the polar opposite and complementary fawn response described below. They can learn the empathy response of the fawn position - imagining how it feels to be the other, and in the beginning "fake it until they make it." Without real consideration for the other, without reciprocity and dialogicality, the real intimacy they crave will remain unavailable to them.

Full Article available at http://pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

[Fight]

In his article "The 4Fs: A Trauma Typology in Complex PTSD" Pete Walker offers a typology of trauma in which he:

....elaborates four basic defensive structures that develop out of our instinctive Fight, Flight, Freeze and Fawn responses to severe abandonment and trauma (heretofore referred to as the 4Fs). Variances in the childhood abuse/neglect pattern, birth order, and genetic predispositions result in individuals "choosing" and specializing in narcissistic (fight), obsessive/compulsive (flight), dissociative (freeze) or codependent (fawn) defenses. Many of my clients have reported that psychoeducation in this model has been motivational, deshaming and pragmatically helpful in guiding their recovery.

Individuals who experience "good enough parenting" in childhood arrive in adulthood with a healthy and flexible response repertoire to danger. In the face of real danger, they have appropriate access to all of their 4F choices. Easy access to the fight response insures good boundaries, healthy assertiveness and aggressive self-protectiveness if necessary. Untraumatized individuals also easily and appropriately access their flight instinct and disengage and retreat when confrontation would exacerbate their danger. They also freeze appropriately and give up and quit struggling when further activity or resistance is futile or counterproductive. And finally they also fawn in a liquid, "play-space" manner and are able to listen, help, and compromise as readily as they assert and express themselves and their needs, rights and points of view.

Those who are repetitively traumatized in childhood however, often learn to survive by over-relying on the use of one or two of the 4F Reponses. Fixation in any one 4F response not only delimits the ability to access all the others, but also severely impairs the individual's ability to relax into an undefended state, circumscribing him in a very narrow, impoverished experience of life. Over time a habitual 4F defense also "serves" to distract the individual from the accumulating unbearable feelings of her current alienation and unresolved past trauma.[/i]

Full article available at http://pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm