Messages

Yogi,  I am so sorry to read about your situation with your mother.   Like you,  my life-long, terrible relationship with my nm and ef finally ended around Christmas, several years ago.

It felt awful,  just as you are feeling now. I just really want to reassure you. It may take a while to get over the guilt and the pain and the loneliness,  but your mother seems to be causing you such pain, that it will,  I believe,  be worth it.  The fact that you are already aware of cptsd and all its implications is a good start.  I can honestly say that it was from reading all about it and finding this site that I really began to heal.  I wish I knew what I know now when things came to a head with my parents.  It's awful to wonder whether you are the crazy one; to feel such guilt; to lose your sibling.  I have read your story and want to validate your feelings.

If there is anything you want to ask about going forward,  please just ask. I am no expert but I have been through a similar situation and believe I am doing well now. So I might be able to support you a bit.

All the best.

Libby.

Most definitely.   It is only after finding out about cptsd that my employment difficulties make complete sense. Beforehand,  I just thought I was useless.

I think that starting your own business is an excellent move.  Had I realised the full nature of my issues years ago, I think this is what I would have done. Especially so, if the business involves something you are really committed to.   

Above all, for myself,  I would avoid any job dealing directly with people.  I was steered into nursing because I was made to believe I was so pointless that I had to do something worthwhile for society. Thanks, parents.  Absolutely the worst choice possible.   I would have been better doing any other job.  I briefly worked cleaning a restaurant,  on my own, in the morning.  I just did it as a favour,  but with the exception of phone calls,  it was the best job for me. So I would say, don't be down on yourself about having a variety of low paid jobs, if you can cope with them. Hopefully, that way, you aren't over involved with people at each one and can step back from any stress.

I wish you every success with your business.   I really believe that is the way to go. 

Libby.

Hi Jazzy.

So pleased you are back - I was wondering how you were doing.

Libby.

Hi Elphanigh.

The situation you talk about is exactly the sort of thing that frequently sends me into EFs.  Things that are probably just mistakes. Things that can be viewed as poor service. For years, I did not understand why I got so upset about things that my dh would just sort of shrug his shoulders at.

For me, I think these situations produced deep EFs because,  in these situations,  it felt like I was being told "Your order/time/request is not important. Other orders are more important so your order has been overlooked.  Tough!!"  I'm sure you get the idea.  This echoed my entire childhood where my needs were of no consequence. Everyone else came before me.

Once I became aware of EFs,  and their feelings of being small and powerless,  it all made sense.  Now, I cope with such inconveniences much better.  I might be irritated but I do not go into an EF.  Instead of seeing the situation as a result of me being unimportant,  I see it as an unfortunate error.

So I absolutely understand you and hope that the explanation which worked for me might be just a little bit helpful to you.

All the best.

Libby

Hi Knopssos.

I just wanted to say welcome.

Every detail in your post said awful emotional abuse to me.  I suffered a lot of physical abuse as a child,  but it was the emotional abuse which I believe did me the most harm.  I understand exactly what you went through with being laughed at, belittled and demeaned.  It is absolutely soul destroying. The solitary confinement sounds all to familiar.  Did you have to plead and beg forgiveness to be released?

It sounds as if your step-mother was insecure and jealous,  maybe.  And your father became her enabler over time.  So sad, and so common here.  My parents stayed together and would say that they had an absolutely blissful marriage and yet the dynamic was just the same. It is these dysfunctional patterns that occur whatever the type of family structure that helped convince me that my abuse was very real and very damaging.   

I wish you well with your journey towards healing and I hope that we can all help you and also learn from you.

Best wishes.

Libby

Hi Goblinchild.

How I wish I had a good answer to this question. I suspect it is a huge issue for many people here.

Firstly, I noticed the word "again"  in the title of your post,  but from reading what you wrote,  I think that maybe, like me, you have never been social.  My childhood of abuse led to such low esteem that I could not believe anyone would want to be around me.  If I did make a friend or have any sort of positive social experience,  my nm made sure she ruined it and bought me right back where she believed I belonged.  Controlled by and beholdened to her for any connection.

How can we be social beings if we never learned the basics? It's so hard.

I get the impression that you really do want to be more social.   Hope I am right there.   For myself,  I am not sure that being sociable was particularly in my nature.  I tried because society expects people to be social and shames those who are not.   It might be worth considering what exactly you want from being social.  Meeting up with a group of people in a noisy bar is not for everyone.  I look at my dd who loves this sort of socialising and think that this never worked for me even when I was younger.  My sons would hate this sort of evening out! What I am struggling to say is don't think you have to fit into the sort of mode society decrees as normal.  This might not be for you but don't feel shamed by this.

On the same line of thought,  I wonder if you are trying to hard too be social and giving it all to much thought.  I was certainly guilty of that when I was younger.   When we are so affected by abuse, any dealings with other people seem so fraught with difficulty. Again,  I am struggling with my ideas, but I think what I am trying to say is that it doesn't matter what others might think. Go along to social events with no expectations.   Be quiet if that feels right and more open if the situation arises.  As you feel more at ease with yourself,  you may find it easier to connect.  Also,  it is a cliché,  but other people are probably finding socialising hard to.   My dd tells me about friends that seem so outgoing and yet confide their difficulties and I am so surprised to hear that such seemingly "out there"  people are so troubled socially under that confident exterior.

Sorry if I have waffled on and given you little of value.   Just decide what sort of socialising is for you - don't push yourself because you feel you should.  Be however you want to be, with few expectations,  see how it goes but never feel obliged to socialise in a certain way.

Now I am older, I can be social when I want to. Which isn't very often. I could go to a gathering, and maybe enjoy it as long as it was on my own terms.  I wish I had realised this years ago.  I really hope,  and believe that as we accept ourselves more and more,  others will accept us and if they don't,  we accept and move on.

Just don't put yourself under too much pressure, and I wish you well in finding social contact.

All the best,

Libby.

Hi Blueberry.

I just wanted to say well done on your progress in protecting yourself whilst dealing with your friends. Navigating these friendships sounds especially challenging as the friends you talk about have their own issues, which you understand so well, that it would be so easy to put aside your own need for protection.

Also,  this thread has helped me so much.

Since starting to get to grips with cptsd,  I have realised just how badly I am triggered by my in-laws. They are not nearly as damaging as my foo were,  but their lack of caring and concern and invalidation. has always been very triggering.  For years, I knew this, but pushed it aside.  Recently,  this invalidation plunged me into an awful EF,  after which, I decided it was time for some self protection.   Your post has really helped validate this decision,  and has helped me deal with the shame and guilt.  I suspect that people in general would think it wrong for me to avoid my very elderly in-laws, and extended family.  I am sure they would think it must be all my fault as I have already lost my foo to NC.  This is where talking and reading here is so valuable.  No one else would understand.

Having said that,  my in-laws phoned whilst dh was eating so I said I would speak to them.   Dh reminded me that Pete Walker said avoid triggers ( he has been reading his book)  and relieved me of the obligation. 

So thank you Blueberry and everyone else here.  Your discussion around self-protection has helped me enormously.

Finally,  Blueberry,  I would be very interested to hear more about your last comment regarding your foo and emotions,  if and when you feel able. I think our foo's have definite similarities.

Thank you again and let's all stand strong in protecting ourselves and each other!!

Libby

Hi Artemis.

I was so sorry to read about your worries. It sounds like you have a lot to get to grips with.

I don't know if I can help in any way.  I am certainly no expert but I did have a few thoughts that might be worth passing on to you.

My nm was my main abuser and she once said she thought I was bipolar because of the way my mood went up and down,  and especially as I would rush to complete projects and tasks, when I was 'in the mood'.  This was a huge criticism of me, in her view.  Actually,  I realise now that this pattern fits much more into the framework of cptsd.   I rush to do things when I feel well, knowing that the energy won't last.   I also have this feeling of a forshortened life that Pete Walker talks of. So I have to make the most of my time.  Then, inevitably,  I have a bad EF period,  depression etc, so right back down again.  Since learning and dealing with cptsd, these mood swings have evened out a lot.   Perhaps your symptoms could be explained in this sort of way. Especially as you are back with mother and don't feel safe.

As you have tried medication in the past and found it ineffective and unpleasant,  you are probably making a good decision to avoid it.  It sounds as if you need help with your actual physical situation - easier said than done, I know.   But it is hard, in my experience anyway, to see how medication would help with this.

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I think you have a good understanding of your situation,  including the possibility that your therapist is projecting her d situation onto you.   It sounds as if you need some reassurance and back-up.  I think you have made a sound assessment of things and I hope things start to get better for you.   Above all, take care of yourself, and I am sure I speak for everyone one here when I that we are all here for you.

Take care.

Libby.

Oh, Blueberry.   I was so thankful to read this.  Someone else is triggered by a simple word.  I have only realised this recently,  but I was,  I think, always aware of it at some level.

I distinctly remember,  as a toddler,  having real aversions to words.  My parents thought it was hysterical,  and would say these words to get a reaction from me.  One was the name of a model of car we had when I was less than four years old. For years afterwards this name really unsettled me!

Nowadays,  it is more the sort of words you talk about.  'Should ' is a real trigger for me too. With our type of families, it is no wonder.

It is the word "fair" that is a real trigger for me.  My nm relied heavily on this word in order to justify her behaviour. Nowadays,  when someone says this word,  I automatically distrust them.

Recently,  my in laws said that they had written their grandchildren out of their wills because "it wasn't fair" on the one son and his wife who don't have children.  SIL had complained about lack of fairness despite it being their choice not to have children.   The money is immaterial and probably not much, but I was so triggered,  right into an awful,  long,  EF.  It was,  I realise, reminding me of my SG childhood,  and invalidated the children involved.  To SIL (who seems rather BPD),  they are not individuals,  just extentions of their parents.

It's amazing,  isn't it,  about how a simple word can open up such a flood of feelings and emotions? 

I think that this is a really interesting topic,  and would like to hear more thoughts on it.

All the best to you.

Libby.

What beautiful sentiments,  James.  Thank you so much.

Libby.

So sorry Hope,  if I came across as dismissive of your concern about this issue.  I wasn't very clear in my thoughts as I said, and invalidating either of us certainly wasn't what I wanted to do.

With the talc issue,  I just wanted to say that people did believe it was a good thing a few years ago.   But it would never be a good thing to apply it to anyone,  including a child, against their will. As Andyman said, that is inappropriate touching.  Even as a student nurse, I always asked what a patient wanted and respected their wishes, even if those were different to ward policy.

What I wanted to say was that people can have very fixed, odd beliefs in what is right for them.  That's fine, their choice,  but it is wrong to push these things onto anyone, including their child, against their will. That is abuse. 

Like you, my parents were very 'relaxed' about nudity.   No locks on doors, making a point of coming into the bathroom when I was using it.   I complained and they laughed at me and called me a prude etc.  Said I wasn't normal. By their standards I wasn't.  But they had their views,  and I had to accept them.  That was abusive to me, and I am sure from your various posts that you felt very much like this too.

If it suited them, it had to suit us. No arguments.  I hope that I have been a bit clearer,  and that I didn't invalidate you. I agree wholeheartedly with Andyman.  If it bothers someone,  it is abusive.   

Your description of your nm's behaviour around your possible menstruation sounds awful.   I can relate.  My nm handled everything so badly that it was a real issue for me.

Having had three children,  including one daughter,  I have used my parents as a template for what not to do.  Although my children have their difficulties as everyone does, they are really well adjusted.   With regards to things like nudity,  I follow their lead. I would never appear naked in front off them and when I have helped them bath etc when they are Ill, I maintain their dignity.   I never considered otherwise.

I hope I have made myself a bit clearer.  I do feel a bit clearer myself and wish you all the best in working through all these things.   I think I am still trying to deal with this area of my childhood,  even though I know I am still deeply affected such things now.

All the best,  Hope.

Hugs, from Libby.

Hi Hope.

I was really interested to read this post.  I have often wondered if a few, odd things my parents did were,  in fact,  abusive.

I think that practices change with time. When I started nursing in the mid-eighties talc was always used.  Within a few years, it was shown, like you say, to be unhealthy.   So I can accept that people could have encouraged things that were OK at the time.

Poss. Trigger Warning.

For me, I think that the unsettling part of these situations is the way that my parents were just so over-involved with my body.  They thought nothing of barging into the bathroom when I was in the bath.  In fact,  they made a big thing about it being their right.  They made lots of intimate and inappropriate comments.  Worse of all, nm insisted on inserting tampons into me, against my will. I did not want to go swimming but she insisted. Once I was married, she started to give me "marital advice",  unasked for, of course,  and I think it had a very negative effect on my marriage.

So, I don't think these are examples of sexual abuse.  I don't think they got a sexual kick from them. Rather,  I think it was another aspect of the emotional abuse.  I was their property so they could do and say as they pleased.  Like you, though,  I found all of these things very unsettling and weird.  It's as if there is something abusive behind their behaviour.

I hope I make some sense here.  I'm still trying to work out these issues for myself,  so I may sound a bit confused.  I would very interested to hear more of your thoughts on these issues.

Thank you so much for listening.

Libby

Thanks, Blueberry.  Love the cheerleaders.

It's so obvious when I think of most Sundays in childhood.  They were probably the most stressful day of the week.  That's the value of talking with everyone here - I keep getting new insights into what is going on with me and then I can move forward a little more.

All the best,

Libby.

You are absolutely right,  Phoebes.   No is always the answer for people who were emotionally abused.   

Throughout my childhood,  I was very unhappy,  but my parents told me constantly that, NO, I was not unhappy, I was just ungrateful.  So I accepted that really.

As I got older, met my dh, married,  got a house, had my children and so on, I was told NO!  You are not happy!  They did all they could to make sure I was not happy.  Nothing that ever happened to me was acknowledged as a happy event, or they behaved so badly that everything was spoiled and became unhappy.  If I was then unhappy,  I was told to pull myself together.

No wonder we are so damaged.

I like your idea,  Decimal Rocket,  that we don't have a comfort zone.  Before I learned of cptsd,  I had never thought of this, but now I am doing much better at deciding and doing what makes me happy and comfortable.  I hope everyone else finds these things too.

Libby

His Jazzy.

Really hoping that you have had an OK weekend and that the odd symptoms you were having have started to settle down a bit.  I think that dealing with a few practical things like food and tidying is a very positive step.  My weekend has been very much like that too - just a few nice, useful achievements.   I have realised since last weekend,  that my worst EF's are on Sundays, so yesterday I took very definite steps to avoid triggers and it really worked.   Have you picked up on any pattern to your flashbacks?  Can't believe how long It took me to see this, but talking to you about weekends seems to have set me on the right path.  Many thanks!

Thank you as well for your encouragement about my son.  He is such a lovely person who has been bullied relentlessly due to difficulties he has had since birth.  I feel so much guilt around his birth and subsequent problems,  that it is extra hard to watch his suffering. 

My fingers are crossed for you that you are starting the week in a reasonable place.  Do you think you feel able to sort out your appointments?  I am still putting off calling both of the counselling services my doctor gave me two weeks ago.  I am just too scared of being invalidated and dismissed again. 

Anyway,  keep going with looking after yourself.  I'm right there with you.

Libby