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Such a helpful discussion. What Contessa said about how people have no idea or too much idea is spot on. Then, I suppose, the big question is how do we decide where someone is on that spectrum.

Over the last year,  I had lost touch with an old schoolfriend.  We left school 30+ years ago,  we're only in minimal contact so I didn't think much of it.

I have just heard from her again, explaining that her lack of contact was because of her father's death.  I will respond to her, and let her know how sorry I am for her loss.  I didn't know her father well, but he was very nice and she was very close to him.

There is a small part of me that wonders if I should explain a little about my situation at the moment - why I was not in contact with her over the past year.  This was the time during which I really learned about cptsd and how utterly damaged I feel.  After all, she is a very intelligent person and a scientist,  she may understand.  But then again, as I am NC with my parents,  whilst she is grieving for hers,  is that fair of me?

Also, perhaps I should hold back because I know I can't truly feel what it is to lose a beloved parent.  Probably I feel a little jealous that she had a lovely father for 50+ years and has grown even closer to her mother by helping her to cope.   This is something I cannot even begin to imagine,  so perhaps it would be best if I should keep silent altogether.   Social isolation,  my default behaviour.  Then I question why my reality is "less than" anybody else's, and I just become paralysed.

It just seems that other people can act instinctively,  but we just question everything,  often to the stage of not acting at all.  And, for me, if I do act, I ties myself in knots, questioning whether I have done the right thing.

Thanks for listening.

Libby
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Welcome to the forum.  I am sure you will find a lot of support and information here. 

I think that many of us here will recognise the feeling of suddenly finding that there is a whole framework (cptsd) that explains everything that we have been suffering from, and been diagnosed with, for many years. It is a relief, but then such a disappointment that there seems to be so little on offer to address what you have uncovered.  This is where this forum has really helped - not feeling so completely alone in your new understanding.

Good luck to you in your journey and I hope we can all help you on your way.

Libby

Trust is such a huge issue and definitely at the bottom of so many of my issues.

I am sure you are right,  BlancaLap.  I can't see how you can trust anyone, or believe that they have your best interests at heart, when you know that your own parents never did.  This is certainly the case for me.  I am lucky that I trust my husband and grown-up children,  but that is as far as it goes.  I have never had any real friends,  have never felt I belonged. 

I don't seek belonging at all now, because I cannot trust that people won't hurt me. They always seem too, so as well as not trusting them, I don't trust myself, it must be something about me that people don't think I am worthy, so it is really hard. 

I accept where I am socially,  but it is hard not to be able to trust anyone,  even doctors,  therapists etc.  It's also so difficult to trust tradesmen,  salespeople, whatever.  I am always convinced that they are out to mislead or even defraud me!! I mostly leave everything to my husband to deal with.

Being unable to trust makes the world a very scary place,  and at the moment,  for me, it is just too much of a risk.

Sorry for this hi-jack,  BlancaLap,  but I am intrigued to ask Andyman something.

Andyman, do you think that being a twin impacted on your cptsd development at all? I have twin sons in their twenties and one is showing many signs of cptsd,  including an extreme distrust of people. 

Thanks for listening,

Libby.

Hi Jazzy.

Very much hoping that you got your favourite meal, and above all, enjoyed it a bit.  Also hoping that you are managing some sleep.

As regards my husband and his understanding of cptsd,  he sort of gets it. I had asked him to read Pete Walker's book a couple of times and despite being a keen reader,  he never did.  So after my ef meltdown at the weekend,  I gave him the book and basically told him to read it. So I think that will help - he said he was surprised that so many people had such a definite pattern of symptoms,  all of which he recognised in me.

Do you have anyone to talk to,  who gets how you are feeling?   It is so true what everyone here says - only those who have been there can even begin to understand.

Sadly,  I think one of my sons is definitely showing all the signs of cptsd. Another reason why I wanted my husband to read the book.  I hate to see him suffer.

Hoping very much that you are coming out of that horrible cycle and that you are coping with the new medication. Could that be why your brain chemistry feels 'screwy'? 

Anyway,  as ever, take care.

Libby

Hi Jazzy.

So pleased to hear that you had a good sleep.  I find it amazing what a difference that can make to things.  Also,  I think you are right to reschedule appointments if you are feeling really bad as it's so hard to engage when in an ef type state. Do you find that?

Thank you so much for your concern.  Looking back, I was in a real ef state a couple of days ago.  You are so right about not recognising it when you are in the middle of it.  I am definitely out of it now and realise exactly what triggered it. I feel better for knowing, but ashamed that I hurt my husband.   Am going to try to explain more to him later.

I hope very much that you have been taking care of yourself.   Maybe had something nice to eat?  I find that when in an ef,  I both don't want to eat and feel hungry at the same time.   It's very confusing.

Take care, and let me know how you are doing. I am finding our exchanges very positive.   Thank you so much.

Libby

I just want to say how sad I feel to read all of the terrible accounts of childhood that everyone has been so brave to tell. So much violence and neglect to such vulnerable little children.

I think that my background is a bit different.

Firstly,  I was always told that I was a desperately wanted child, whereas so many others were not wanted at all. Nm had married very young, to the absolute love of her life (enabling F) ,  happy to escape a rather sad childhood with two older parents who weren't each others first choice of love.  She had two miscarriages and then had me.  Sounds as if it should have been blissful but the birth was difficult and she has admitted often that from day one of my life,  there was just nothing there,  no bond, no love, just emptiness.  She had admitted this quite freely, as has my F, but they can't see that this could possibly have had any effect on me at all.

GC was conceived six months after my birth,  and nm admits, very matter of factly, that she didn't want another baby as her first baby and motherhood in general was just such a disappointment.  However, she says that GC sister was just such a lovely baby that she made everything right. 

Probably sister was a better baby,  who knows, but maybe that was because nm felt so differently about her.  But whatever our differences, nm could say that the reason she did not love or even like me was because of my deficiency in my ability to love her.  GC sister loved her so the fault lay not with her mothering, but with me, a baby of only a year. Classic dysfunctional family all set up by the time I was 15 months old.

My life was then very, very regular physical abuse, whenever nm was in a bad mood,  which was most of the time. But, much, much worse was the emotional abuse.  It was all consuming. I can't even begin to describe it, there is just so much.

For me, the tragic thing is that all of this is fairly freely admitted by my parents.  GC sister has always refused any discussion of anything.   The issue is that they don't see that any of this could have impacted on my development at all.  When I raised the issues, when in my forties,  they just cut me and my children out of their lives for good.  They said they were perfect parents and I was just ungrateful and unworthy.   Five years on, we have been in absolute NC.

So, yes, core trauma started from birth and I realise now the extent of the damage done, which has ruined every aspect of my life.

My heart bleeds for all of us hurt and damaged little children.  Gentle hugs for all of us.

Jazzy.

I am so sorry to read how terrible you are feeling at the moment.   About thirty six hours ago,  I was feeling terrible too.  Similar to what you have described,  I think.  Maybe elements of EF.   Pretty sure that's what was happening to me.

I think you said about a new medication.  Do you think that is playing a role in how you are feeling at the moment?

I just hope that you can get some sleep and that you are up to getting to your appointment.  It might help - I really, really hope so.  I don't like to throw out suggestions,  after all, we would all do the healthy thing if we were able.  But if you can,  could you pick up something really nice to eat, something really tempting.  I know how hard it is to bother to eat when you get so low, but I am concerned that you have eaten so little.

I have read the first part of your post several times.   It really resonated with me.  I think most people here will really get this and I am so impressed at the way you have sort of broken down and summed up the cyclical nature of what we are dealing with.  I am coming out of that horrid,  low part of the cycle, and I am supporting you through it in spirit.

Take care,

Libby

Hi Elphanigh.

I have a neice in her late teens, daughter of my GC sister.  When she was younger,  I didn't worry about her, but as I got to grips with all the dysfunction in my foo,  I did start to worry.

As my sister was enmeshed GC, she decided that her daughter was "granny's girl".  My parents drove about 100 miles each week to care for her while her own parents were working.  Nm started saying things like " she is just like me, so worried about what she wears."  This little girl wasn't worried and knew exactly what she liked to wear. In itself,  this doesn't seem of much concern. However, nm always said to, and about me, how much I was like her etc.  Even as a young child,  I felt uncomfortable with this, as if I didn't want to be like her, and just wanted to be like myself!

I truly believe, now I have more understanding,  that she was grooming my niece for her own needs, just like she had done with me.

Fortunately,  GC sister and family moved abroad when neice was just a toddler.  I think this saved her from my nm.  Interestingly, despite it always being said that she would study law like both her parents,  she is actually doing a degree in psychology.   Both my dd and I did psychology degrees and it was very frowned upon by my foo.  I so wonder what made her choose this and how my foo reacted.

My neice is in contact with my dd on social media.  I am pleased about this and like to hear that she is doing well.

Hope you can enjoy being an aunt.

Libby

A number of years before I went NC with my FOO,  although looking back,  I was starting to come OOTF,  my nm very cheerfully said "Well,  I used to hit you, and it never did you any harm!"  I was shocked that she admitted it but I see that her admission (she is never wrong and never apologises) showed how she truly believed what she said.  After all, any marks and bruises faded.  As she never accepted that I had any emotions,  she never harmed them.  For me, it didn't matter if it hurt, and I don't remember the sensation but, my goodness,  decades later, I still remember the emotional pain these beatings caused.  I was powerless,  shamed and blamed and had to grovel for forgiveness for what I had forced her to do.  BTW,  I never got that forgiveness, it was just added to the ever-growing list of all of the awful things I did to my nm, because I didn't love her as she demanded to be loved. 

So yes, spanking is abuse to me, but spanking by a disordered parent is so many more layers of abuse and those are what did the damage to me.

Sorry for the rant! 

Hi Jazzy.

I read your post and, even though you didn't get into a lot of detail,  I felt that I really understand how you are feeling at the moment.

You asked the big question that I always seem to be asking myself.   I should be happy (ish!) but I'm not. Why? As well, I am right with you on the feeling that there are just so many confused thoughts racing around in my head, and my emotions are so all over the place. You mention a new medication.  For me, it's the start of the process of tapering of of an anti-depressant that didn't seem to be doing much good but had bad side effects.   I tried before so I know it will be unpleasant.

Is there something particular in your life at the moment that you think might have contributed to your feelings?  My limited knowledge says it does sound like an EF.  For me, I was having quite a good week,  the reason being that I had managed five days with essentially no interaction with anybody but my dh and two sons, who I live with,  and text messages with my dd,  who lives away. Perfect for me.   Then, a couple of days ago, the outside world and its people managed to get in, and I am a complete mess again.  I wonder if this feels at all familiar to you?  You potter along,  coping,  and sort of happy,  or as near to happy as you ever seem to get.  Then, something happens,  doesn't have to be really bad, then it feels like you are back to square one, which is basically a mess of thoughts and emotions.

I really wish I had some advice to offer. I never do, which is why I rarely post,  despite visiting this site daily for the past year.  I have found a lot of support here,  just from reading. Despite your worries,  I and many like me, I am sure, are so thankful that you and all the others here keep posting.  Where would we get the feeling of connection otherwise?   In fact,  now that I have replied to you,  I might,  just might,  start my own thread to see if anyone has some advice on the things that are really troubling me today.  Even here, I still believe that I have no voice and no right to a voice,  just as my parents brought me up to believe,  and everyone,  other than my dd, has continued to reinforce throughout my fifty plus years.  Wow! Where did that come from?  Thank you,  I needed to get that out there!!

Thank you Jazzy,  and I would be very interested to hear more from you.

Libby

Excellent!!!

Dear ah.

Your story is absolutely tragic.  It's hard to convey how much I feel for you.  But I know what it feels like to be utterly discarded by your parents.   To be utterly broken by them, and then thrown away by them because you are so messed up.

I may be wrong but I gather from other posts that you are essentially alone.   That
must make your situation so much harder to bear. I live with my husband and sons so I am not alone,  but my husband really doesn't understand and my sons have life long developmental problems so I have to just pretend that I am fine.  Your comments about how no one ever listens and the liars and deniers win every time rings so true. We are left feeling so utterly powerless,  just like we felt as powerless children being abused by our cruel and entitled parents. And the unrelenting pain that no one believes because it is so hard to put into words.  They don't believe and then offer painkillers.  I want to scream but don't feel that I am allowed to so I don't.

I just want you to know that,  even though I can't fully understand the place you are in at the moment,  I hope I can give you some empathy and support as you continue with your story.

Libby

Hi Phoebes.

I get you completely.  It is the combination of the physical and emotional abuse that is so damaging.

Like you,  I suffered an awful lot of physical abuse.  My nm would just lose her temper,  for ridiculous or no reason,  and beat me with whatever was to hand.  It did hurt and it left marks for a while.  But then came the emotional abuse - the silent treatment which she could easily maintain for days, being banished to a room with nothing in, until I begged for mercy, took all the blame.  She never gave even a hint of being sorry,  and used it for days, until the next meltdown,  to ensure my absolute compliance with her needs. 

For me, the final layer of abuse was that she often told me that her depressed mother didn't speak to her for days at a time, and how much it hurt.  So I realised early on that she knew exactly what she was doing to me. But she denied everything.  She was perfect in every way.

I think we have both experienced the fact that truly abusive parents use all the forms of abuse to achieve their ends.  And round it all off with a layer of denial. The final abuse is that everyone /society believes them.

I really feel for you.  Your example of your mother's behaviour shows just how everything was all about her. Your mention of the gleam in her eye and then her command for you to be happy is so familiar.   How do we recover from this?  I wish we knew.

Take care.

Libby

Hi green tree sky.

I haven't posted much recently as I have been going through a really bad time, but I had to reply to you because your summary of your childhood and life into adulthood is just so very similar to mine. 

I struggle and struggle with the idea that it is all my fault,  especially when the same, negative things keep happening in other relationships.

I am over fifty and have been absolutely NC with all of my FOO for five plus years.   Their choice more than mine.  The first time I spoke out,  I was dismissed from their lives. After all, I had broken the family rule of  "everything is for/about mother as she is perfect!" 

I am in such a bad place at the moment that it's hard to be positive but I just wanted to say that I really understand how you feel and would be pleased to hear more of your story. Living this sort of life is just so lonely,  despite my having a good husband and children.

I wish you well.

Libby

His, east17 and welcome.

I certainly agree that depression and anxiety are a big part of cptsd.

I had twenty sessions of CBT for depression and anxiety a few years ago. It helped a little, but as it never addressed the root of my problems (life long emotional and physical abuse by parents)  there were few lasting effects.

Like you,  I am in the UK and have never been offered any other treatment. I paid to see a counsellor and actually found that much more helpful than CBT because I just talked and talked about all my issues.

So my advice would be to seize all the help you can, don't ignore the trauma aspect and try the treatments your psychologist has discussed.  Don't minimise what you have been through.  The NHS wouldn't offer you these treatments if they didn't believe you need them.

All the best to you.

Libby