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Absolutely,  Jenny B. I know exactly what you mean. It's only recently I realised that good weather is a trigger for emotional flashbacks. For years I believed that I "couldn't cope"  with warm weather,  because my nm couldn't,  and after all, I am my nm because she told me I was!

You are so right as well about sunshine and summer being all about being young and carefree and living life to the full. Our parents denied us this pleasure,  so no wonder we are triggered.

Like you, I am in my early fifties and have been saved by my husband. I am trying,  with the help of therapy,  to "rewrite my story"  and yesterday I went to the coast, in the sunshine, along with crowds of people,  and enjoyed it. Like you, I have spent years avoiding such situations. 

I hope very much that you can also start to live life more fully. A year ago, I wouldn't have been able to get out and about in the sunshine.  I have moved through doing these things,  but not really enjoying them and am just getting hints that I can do and enjoy.

There is hope, Jenny,  and being on OOTS has helped enormously.  I hope, in turn, that we can help you too.

Best wishes, 

Libby.

Thank you,  San magic. You are spot on, as ever.  I can see now that you have pointed it out,  that dealing with the memory around my sister,  was part of the bigger picture of the whole issue with my mother.  Dealing with the memory through emdr and actually crying,  does seem to have started to lift a weight,  and I do feel more "present". 

I think that stopping the duloxetine has played a part. Like you,  eyesofblue, I must have been on antidepressants of one sort or another for nearly twenty years.  Whilst coping with my special needs twins and my disordered mother,  it was probably the right thing just to go with it . But I was never sure if they really helped,  probably because I didn't feel much of anything except anger. I certainly didn't feel "better", whatever that was!

Despite the brain zaps etc, I am definitely more comfortable with myself,  doing things my way.  I know it is absolutely not recommended,  but so far I have coped much better than the two times I tried to slowly cut the dose.  I gather that this drug has a very short half-life so I think this means that withdrawal symptoms take hold quickly.

I have just had home made fruit crumble and custard for breakfast!  Nm would be absolutely disgusted but I did it because I wanted to.  Next step is to do it without even considering her views. Perhaps as I deal with memories of her through emdr, I will be able to let go at last.

Hi San Magic,  I absolutely relate to everything you said about feeling that you could be on the autistic spectrum.  I have done some on line tests for asd.  On one, I came out with a higher score than my aspergers son. Your feelings as a child,  and as a new mother sounded so familiar to me. And decimal rocket's point about intense study of cptsd and everything around it, is absolutely spot on.

I see so many similarities between myself and my truly autistic son. Especially when I think of myself as a child, so disconnected from life.  I wonder if it is all part of a big, interconnected picture. Genes,  switched on by environment,  passing trauma through the generations. My daughter has no autistic traits, but after a nasty bout of glandular fever, developed something like chronic fatigue,  with terrible IBS and endometriosis type problems. She is a neuroscientist and says there is a good basis for this theory.

Apologies if I am not very coherent here - the drug withdrawal brain effects are making themselves felt. But I will be really interested to hear more of your thoughts about this whole area. 

Take care and keep strong.

Hugs, Libby.

Thank you both for your best wishes. It's so good to have people who care and are genuinely interested!

With regard to the whole question of emotions,  I seem to have had something of a breakthrough.  I have felt so emotionless for so long, I had come to think I really had no emotions or just negative ones!

As a result,  and because I have never been convinced of the value of duloxetine/cymbalta,  I decided to stop taking it.

I seem to be doing well. I knew what to expect,  and despite the withdrawal symptoms in my head,  I actually feel quite positive.

In my last therapy session,  we dealt with memories around my mother and sister. This was a big issue for me because I was the scapegoat and my sister was the golden child. We went back to a situation when I was not much over two years old and it was said that I tried to "get rid" of my sister because I was so very jealous of her. Even before the emdr I was feeling quite emotional and I actually cried real tears.  It must be decades since I cried. I definitely think I have finally found some emotions!

So despite the brain zaps etc which are not pleasant at all, I feel that I am on the right track again.  I even did a small diy project that I had been putting off for ages.

My "homework" from therapy is to start rewriting my story,  as the therapist puts it. Instead of acting like a controlled child, I have to act as an individual adult.  I would have responded badly to this suggestion a while ago, but I can accept myself better now.

Despite its ups and downs, I think therapy has made me trust my belief that my parents damaged me very,  very badly,  so that I can move on a little.  I think you are right San,  now I need to finally deal with the all-pervading image of my horrific mother.  Perhaps then I can finally let go of feeling that I was sacrificed to make her feel better and that she was able to walk away,  safe in her belief that she was the most perfect mother who ever walked this earth. Can this ever be resolved,  I wonder.

Thank you so much for all of your support. I'll let you know how the next emdr session goes.

Hugs, Libby.

Dear Sanmagic.

You are such a caring and helpful person and  I hope you are caring for yourself through everything that is going on in your life.

Hugs,  Libby

Thank you Sanmagic. I definitely think you may have hit upon something with the idea of alexithymia.  I did the test (thanks for the link) and came out as high in the trait. Also I read around the subject and felt that it really made sense to me. The nature / nurture aspect of its "cause" fitted, because my nm had no emotions at all, other than anger. She literally had no words for emotions.  "Quite nice" was the only positive thing she would say occasionally. 

What really struck me,  however,  was the link to autism.  I have an autistic son and always felt that there was an overlap between cptsd and autism. After all, in the past,  I think that autism was blamed on cold, distant mothers.  I often wondered if, as a child, I had autistic traits,  but perhaps it was the first signs of alexithymia?  My son had very violent tantrums when younger, but I was very understanding of this and now he is an adult,  he is very calm and generally works on understanding other peoples thoughts and emotions.

I am definitely going to discuss all of this with my therapist.  Especially how it seems to be linked with pain from undischarged emotions.  Perhaps this will lead to a new approach.  Certainly worth a try and I will read some more about the subject.  It's fascinating.  Many thanks.


I had a lovely day yesterday,  visiting my dd and her boyfriend,  with dh and my dog.  I realise that the only time I was in any pain was when we were stuck in an unexplained traffic jam.  It stuck me that,  although the pain was there and is affected by driving, it was really the cars and people all around,  and my irritation and anger at them for being "in my way" that was the issue. Perhaps it is because I can't really feel emotions, in this case, anger and feel guilty about expressing it, that I distract myself by focusing on pain instead.  It's not something I had considered before, and may not be valid at all. But the pain was gone as soon as we got to my daughter.  Emotion turned inwards and felt as pain seems logical.

Thinking about it,  it was very much the case with nm that if I did something genuinely stupid, like losing money or reversing the car into a post, she was not angry with me. I think that if I beat myself up enough, she didn't need to
It was minor infringements, silly things that made her so angry. I suppose being young that I thought they were minor, so wasn't sorry enough.  Then I had to be punished. Then over time I accepted more things about myself as bad and proceeded to mentally beat myself up.  Is this the inner critic maybe.  Again,  it could link in with the pain.

The concept of alexithymia could also explain my hatred of community type events.  I thought it was just that nm loved this sort of thing and always made us attend.  But it really could be that I just couldn't appreciate that shared sense of celebration or whatever.  I didn't feel it as a child, and I don't feel it now.  It sounds really bad, makes me feel not fully human, hence my avoidance. 

Finally,  I need to come up with memories where I felt weak or powerless. That is hard. That was my whole childhood,  but how much did I really feel it and can I attach it to specific memories?  I shall give it a try, anyway.

I really don't expect anyone to read through all of my waffle, but it is good to get it down in words. I am starting to experience the value of journalling.

Thank you so very much, Sanmagic.

Your post was absolutely fascinating and full of ideas I need to think about.  I think you are absolutely right that I need to stress the very essence of the narcissistic abuse. It's not discreet incidents that caused my pain. Although there were some of those. It was that virtually every interaction with my mother was subtly abusive.  She just had to look at me,  or say something quite ordinary and I would feel terrible about myself.   This really is the essence of it and you have given me hope that if my therapist is open and creative enough,  we may be able to address this. I will certainly discuss this with her next time.

What you explained about emdr being a part of psychotherapy,  not a  total treatment in itself, makes much more sense. I can see how it could work as a stand alone treatment for, say,  an accident,  but I think this is where my therapist gets a bit stuck. She wants me to set aside my intellectual brain and access my emotional brain, but I can't seem to do that.  Actually, it is the talking around the subject that I find most helpful,  I think. 

Thank you again for all of the information and ideas.  Reading them makes me feel that there is still hope of finding the right sort of approach. And I really hope that eyesofblue finds the right approach as well. It certainly feels that we should keep trying,  both sufferers and therapists,  and sharing what works so that treatment becomes more effective over time.

Hugs,  Libby

Thinking of you and wishing a good outcome.  It's so unfair to have this awful period of not knowing,  so take good care of yourself.

Libby.

Hope,  thank you so much for my first comment in my journal.  It means a lot to me.


The GP appointment was pretty much as I expected.  He didn't really have anything to offer,  other than an increased dose of duloxetine. Still wondering if that is a good idea or not. He also said I could have a blood test,  but I don't think I will.  It just seemed like something to fob me off with.

I was,however, reading a leaflet in the waiting room about online GP services and it mentioned access to your medical records. I think I will look into that because I have this strong need to understand what,  deep down,  is wrong with me. Doctors never really give much away in my experience,  but I may find something useful there.  I think it's all about control. I was so utterly controlled by my parents that I feel scared of any situation where I am vulnerable.

This seems to lead on to my therapists suggestion that I search for memories where I felt weak.  That's really hard because my whole relationship with my parents was about my weakness and their strength.  For both of them, that was the right and proper way. After all, parents are in charge.  Added to that was my mother's need for me to be weak so that she could feel she was strong. I had to be sad so that she could believe she was happy.  I had to be fat so that she could be thin and so on and so on. So did I feel weak?  I don't know. But I did feel powerless and helpless. Above all, I was powerless to be myself.  Perhaps these are the memories I could look for.  I really feel that I never got to find out who or what I really was. And I still have such strong doubts.

An absolute requirement of the therapy,  I am told, is to switch off my intellectual brain and allow my emotional brain to take the lead.  I am having real problems with this. It has led me to realise just how truly limited my emotions are.   In emdr sessions,  I can picture traumatic scenes from childhood,  but there aren't really any emotions attached that I am aware of. Should I be aware? Not sure. Is that why the treatment is not being fully effective?  Don't know.  Am I beyond help? That's what worries me.

Anyway,  I am committed to carrying on with the therapy.  Perhaps these are normal hurdles to overcome.

Sanmagic has written a fascinating reply in my emdr thread. There is so much information and advice there,  and I am going to re-read it a few times.

Fingers crossed that you are starting to feel a bit better,  Hope. I remember just how awful period pain was. I think I was lucky to go through an early menopause. I have often wondered if bad period pain is linked to cptsd.  I don't think a definite physical process has been discovered to explain why some women suffer and others don't.  But it certainly runs in families.  My nm suffered, I did and now my daughter suffers even more so. I am sure this passing on trauma through the generations plays a role.

Good luck for your social event this weekend.  I really admire the way you cope with social activities for the sake of your partner. Hoping all goes well.

Take care.

Libby

Well, I said I would start a recovery journal,  so best to get on with it, or knowing me, I will talk myself out of it if I give myself time.

Am going to a GP later at the suggestion of my EMDR therapist.  To be honest, I am not sure if there is much point.  I am sure my pain is cptsd related.  It would be good to have a definite diagnosis or opinion,  though. I will also ask again about the purpose of the duloxetine I take. He didn't prescribe it originally so it would be interesting to see if he thinks it is worthwhile for me despite the side effects.

Anxiety about this appointment building already so better take my doggy for a walk.  That usually helps.

Hi to everyone and especially Eyesofblue, Hope and Sanmagic.

I have been reading here regularly,  but have found it hard to write - several times,  I tried and failed. So thank you all for your continuing support and interest.  It means so much. It really does.

I think that shame has stopped me from posting more. The EMDR seemed to be going well after the last blip which you all helped me through.

I really like and trust my therapist and believe that she wants to help me and wants the best for me. I think I am in a similar position to you, Eyesofblue.  I just have the EMDR but we talk through things before and after the treatment.  I am just not sure how much more this treatment can help me. And I think she feels it too! We have reprocessed some traumatic memories from really early in life. In fact,  right back to birth, via the stories I was told over and again. It's helped - I feel less angry with my parents through accepting their limitations with me. But she wants me to come up with distinct traumatic memories. Other than the type we have already processed,  my trauma was carried out by mind games, subtle looks and comments, undermining, blaming and shaming, every minute of every day. Year after year,  from birth to age 45ish. The therapy doesn't seem to accommodate this, and I am not sure she fully grasps the nature of narcissistic type abuse. So I feel stuck, and even more damaged than I thought I was before.

I still have periods of awful physical pain, which I think she thinks should have resolved by now. Consequently,  I am seeing a GP today,  at her request,  to rule  in/out any physical causes. So I feel I am back to square one,  with no answers and little hope. I have been reading around the topic so much,  desperate for answers,  but probably not doing myself much good.  Perhaps I should just accept myself as I am - a damaged person inside, but with an OK life outside. Because I am coping better with my life.

I can be pain-free and depressed, in pain but in a good mood, or depressed and in pain. There seems to be no pattern that makes any sense.  Or maybe the therapy hasn't or can't access the cause. I just don't know.  Cptsd is just so all-encompassing,  isn't it?

I am going to carry on trying. My therapist has suggested I recall memories that confirmed in me that I was weak.  I think powerless or helpless sums it up better.  It's the sort of double bind I always come up against,  though. My nm wanted me weak and powerless,  to make her feel better.  I may have had an easier time with her if I had gone along with this. So I wasn't totally weak and powerless because I fought against this and suffered more, but broke the chain of intergenerational abuse. It's such a tangled web and I am so confused!

I hope the new treatment works out for you, Eyesofblue,  but I really relate to your frustration.  It's so true that only those who go through this can truly understand.

Hugs to you all.

Libby.

Pleased to be back, and seem to have a lot of words for someone who said she didn't have any!!

Dear Hope,

I was so very touched that you wondered if I was OK.  It means so much.  I come to OOTS every day, to see how everyone is, and I always check in on your journal.  I have started several replies, to you,  and to others,  but I just didn't seem to have any words! But your concern has really helped me, and inspired me to look at starting my own recovery journal, something I want to do, but haven't found the strength to do yet. 

This journey through cptsd really "hurts", doesn't it?! Reading your journal inspires me and makes me feel less alone.

It's interesting that you mentioned the healing porch. I know about it and have had a brief visit,  but, like you, I can't go there. Through my EMDR sessions,  I have come to realise more and more, how very out of touch I am with my emotions.  I suppose they are there,  but I see no signs of them. Other than some anger. I think that my therapist is a bit exasperated with me. She says I need to turn off my thinking brain,  but then, there doesn't seem to be anything there at all. So, yes, I think that the healing porch is difficult because of some sort of emotional block.

I was also struck by your mention of your sister.  I'm remember that things didn't work out with her, and I'm sad about that. Thinking about childhood memories for therapy has made me realise how few specific ones I have.  And, despite my sister only being a year younger than me, and we grew up together, she simply does not really feature in my memories. I keep asking myself where she was.  I just don't know. Then I doubt myself.  It does seem to explain, however,  how we gave up on any relationship six years ago when she "sided" with our parents, and we seem to have never looked back. It seems that these parents don't allow for good relationships between siblings and it's not our fault.

It's lovely to talk here again.  It's what I needed. Thank you so much. 

Have to rush out to the train station now!

Take very, very good care.

Libby.

Hi Everyone.

I just wanted to let you all know that the EMDR therapy is going really well. I am starting to really understand how it works. It has really confirmed to me how my trauma began right from, and even before birth. And we have dealt with quite a lot if central issues.

The overwhelming thing for me, at the moment, is the physical pain. Even sitting to write this is difficult.  However, since the last session,  I think I am getting to grips with the memories that may well be contributing /causing the pain.

It was odd - after the last session,  I dreamt of my three children all being together.  I dream often of my daughter but rarely of my twin sons, so to have them interacting in a dream was unusual. This led me to think of their traumatic births (the only thing they have in common!),  back through two very upsetting memories from ages 12 and 5,  to my own traumatic birth and my mother's rejection of me. I can see such parallels and each link to the parts of my body that have so much pain. Around this, there are so many other memories that have been stirred up.

It sounds a bit "manufactured" in a way, but it also seems very logical. Whilst working through this, the pain has been so bad, but I still feel hopeful that reprocessing these memories may be the key to the physical pain. I will let you know how the next session goes.

Sitting to write this has intensified the pain so I need to lie on my side for a while!

Hoping very much that you are all OK.

Take care,

Libby.