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So I've just a short  addendum to my long-winded tangent.

I suppose some might object that a life isn't an "act". No, it doesn't feel that way...or does it? I love Shakespeare's line "all the world's a stage" for starters. But there's daily language references like "get your act together", "role model", and similar sayings. And we all grab a costume; we're all skeletal or a "bag of bones", as Alan Watts used to be fond of saying.

One of my cptsd symptoms has been a sense of numbness; some of my "act" has made me wish I'd had a stand-in or stuntman to make it through the rough parts. Using the script metaphor, I wish I could tear it up or do a good edit. Maybe that's where dreams come in?

There. Done. Short.   

Hi, ninabee 

Your tone resonates deeply with my experience. I went through a lot of stages thinking that if I just do this, learn that, take this workshop, follow this program, I'd get a grip on this semi-permanent state of confusion, not to mention pain and grief. And I felt that way long before I could label the experience as what's now called cptsd.

This may sound discouraging, but I don't mean for it to be taken that way. If there were a magic fix, there probably wouldn't be several hundred people who visit this site. And many of those are in various stages of therapy and other approaches.

It's all part of the healing, and it kind of does emphasize how awful what many experienced truly was, to have left such deep scars for so long. It's obviously important, no matter how we seek to deny or move through it as if it didn't exist.

One way I look at it is that I've given up on a cure, but I sense there's lots of healing to be had, with perseverance but also patience. That's problematic in such an answer-driven, quick fix society, but it seems key for one to make it past the first important step.

It's a step you've taken, and yes, it does seem to grab a hold of one's whole being, but better that than not seek to accept what healing can be found. I used to feel needy, always anticipating that magic cure-all. I guess they're all steps, so although it's hard to accept, they do lead us into healing one way or another.

So you're not alone, that's for sure. Being aware, as you seem to be, is huge, and in that sense it's okay to be who you are. And that includes all the healing you can find. It may seem overwhelming, but in the process that's a sign that there is indeed healing happening.

We all wonder if this anxiety is "normal". Sometimes that's kind of a false notion, as if there's a right and wrong way. I think there's a best way--and it's the self-awareness way you've demonstrated by posting here.



 

I have a very philosophical bent, so this sort of topic is one I'm almost always contemplating. I often refer to the personality as "I" or "me"; I find any consistent self to be very elusive, so I use quotation marks around it. As DU pointed out, "I" am not the same person as "I" was then, and so on.

I recently posted on another thread some of my thoughts on this, so if someone read that, it explains why what I'm going to cover here may sound familiar.

What I'm speculating is based on exhaustive reading about what this strange entity called the self might indeed be.  One suggestion I like is that we each consist of a Self (capital S) and a self (small s). The Self is the steady observer that seems to be always present, that makes it seem like we are a unified being. The self is more like the personality, which can fluctuate; whereas the Self sticks around--Emerson called it the Oversoul.

The small-s self can consist of many sub-personalities, something a fellow named Pierro Ferruci described in a wonderful book called "What We May Be". So each person is kind of their own universe, characterized by a variety of traits at different times in their life.

Based on that, my personal philosophy runs something like this (and might change in 15 minutes!):

While I don't know how it came to be, I consider "myself"  to be an individualized expression of a universal essence (call it god if you must; personally I can't stand the word). "I" use a personality to craft what is called a life. Within this life the personal entity called "me" senses a very elusive peace in this trek called life. That search for passionate equanimity keeps me going.

While the purpose of the journey is elusive, each of us has an inner 'memory' or knowledge suggestive of a Source (the Self). Often this is hidden, too, as if a cloud arose to obscure the details.

The cloud, in turn, is part of the theatrical stage we call Earth. So in effect, we're acting as if in a play wherein we each script, edit, direct, and perform our 'selves' in the play. The production is limited on the one hand by the set design (science) but via its memory is aware of an infinity (Self).

Some choose to codify this experience via what's called religion, with rigid rules that often stagnate over time (religions should come with "use-by"/expiration dates!). Others prefer a more materialist sense of reality. Sometimes the religious or spiritual component is taken to be the 'greater' of this duality, but to do so would negate the mixing of the spiritual/material. So some set themselves apart (holier than thou); others would bah/humbug their way through the play.

That many do so, in either form, is still always a creative act deriving from personalities which remain somewhat fluid... learning appears and reappears, casting change as the only eternal constant within an infinite field of possibilities.

Truly the play has no beginning and no end, but lots of potential--the hallmark of the best spontaneous acting (the personality) one could hope for.

The only goal of life is to create more life, which indeed points beyond words to more mystery. Mind seeks answers, and frustrates itself; the whole thing is best navigated from a goal-less state of mind, but the mind resists, and the tug-of-war goes on.

Where does this fit in with cptsd? No answers, but for me it takes some guilt out of the picture. I don't know, don't care to know, why this life was so rotten, and in many aspects still is. Consciously I would have never chosen the path of grief, pain, anxiety, and depression considered "my" life. We are all in the drama, but no one has seen the script. 

If you've read this far, I hope you take what I say in a spirit of playing with options; not as the woodsgnome's take on truth, if there is such a thing. If it's heavy on acting/theatrical references, that might be because I'm directing a dinner-theatre tomorrow night. And in my inner play, that's a huge leap, being around other people. I'll be exhausted, and my sub-personalities will probably be zonked  .

Thanks, I Like Vanilla, for posting this; and you're right, it's very hard to broach this subject...we're just different drummers in more ways than one, it seems. 





 

AnnBelievesInWhales wrote:

"It feels good to feel like a person now."

You nailed it! Becoming that person is what it's all about. Despite frustration about the "full-time job" this recovery business becomes. And seeing the promise of living as that new person, finally feeling safe enough to emerge from hiding.

One of the hardest things to accept is that to feel good, or at least better, the recovery trail might lead through heaps of frustration, exhaustion, and hopelessness. But, as you also noted:

"Bodies are miraculously resilient, and so is my mind and body. I can heal". May you continue, and enjoy being allowed to find yourself for the first time. It's as you said, in this important reminder:

"...when I'm invariably down in the dumps again I'll remember that hope returns." 

 

Indigo wrote:

"I guess they had their round of it though which is why they did it to us."

Abusers may indeed have had many reasons that can explain 'why' they were abusive, but I don't feel an obligation to understand their still senseless actions. I've tried, and 1)it drives me nuts and 2)it's like giving them power over my mind...still.

As to thoughts of anger and revenge, totally okay and far more understandable than their abuse ever was. Thoughts come and go, actions leave scars.

BigSeeGreen123 wrote:

"...it will just take time for new goals to develop...any suggestions for proceeding - how do you figure out what you want?"

Coming out of an awful childhood, I found what most appealed, and went thataway. While I had certain goals en route, looking back it was more important for me to establish values as guideposts to frame my path. Then I built specific goals around those values. Didn't always work out as planned; but at least I somehow survived when plans fizzled.

My chief value and/or need was simply peace. Whether that came in the form of guiding wilderness canoe trips, gaining expertise in historic role-play/theatre, interacting with kids in a pre-school setting, or writing, the activity didn't seem to matter so much as being true to my need for peace. Plus, similar to what Tired said, I felt I wanted to help people somehow. Other than having enough (barely), money didn't make my list of values

Maybe it was sort of an engaged peace, or passionate equanimity, a yearning to be at peace but engaged where I could be with others (much as I feared people in general; still do). Other values like honesty and integrity factored in, but peace remained the steady value behind it all.

Perhaps that sounds a bit presumptuous. Obviously, I still have deep cptsd symptoms in the mix, but I've also apologized too much for this over the years. Even when the peace verged on escapism, it was also a desperate need.

Tired put it this way:

"I guess it's a matter of removing obstacles and the rest happens and I only notice it afterwards."

That was basically my experience. It can be uneasy to go that route. The fear is--things went so bad before, might they do so again? Actually, my experience has been that many did seem wrong turns. Just within the last day there was such an event, made me want to quit...again. It wasn't pretty, not what I wanted, but tonight it's better, and I've found the peace again...it's always been there when I needed it.

So that's what I found; I searched out the values that seemed to matter the most for me, and went that route. It's turned out to be where I needed to be. In cptsd terms, I gave up looking for the cure but continue following the peace as I build on the healing.

BigGreenSee123 also noted:

"I feel there is a great blankness"--I used to have dreams about blankness, felt I needed to fill them; now realize that maybe that was supposed to be...not so I could fill up the space, but have room to roam around in.     

I find much news triggering, yet I stay with some of it. Pure curiosity, I guess.

Depending on when/where I hear or read news (no TV), it either sets me laughing at the absurdity or close to rage and sometimes tears just to know some of this stuff happens.

When I hear certain topics, e.g. politics and religion, my inner  "hypocrite detector" is easily set off. I grew up within a religious outfit where hypocrisy teamed with physical/sexual/emotional cruelty to make for an awful childhood.

It's easy for me to spot the PR disguises (fake piety, holy writ, etc.) they have for shielding their power trips. The political borrows a lot of the top-down/screaming aspects used by religion, so those two can trigger big-time.

I'm noted for my history instincts, even managed a couple of historical sites that feature role-playing actors. But I absolutely detest wars--historical or present, and refuse to be fascinated with them, and am saddened so many get into that stuff, even "re-enact" battles and such (although I consider the civilian side of those times equally distressing).

While I didn't have a personal brush with overt war, I think the personal wars all around me (foo and school/religious types) were enough to colour my reaction to conflicts of any sort. And is why I sought a remote, peaceful place to live, to the point that a lot of the news I hear happens in another world, foreign to me. Good riddance. 

"The test of one's decency is how much of a fight one can put up after one has stopped caring, and after one has found out that one can never please the people they wanted to please."

                                               ---Willa Cather

Much of this seems related to defining what one truly considers the "self". Is it a steady-state of being that's always consistent? And departing from that creates the shattering feeling, a kind of disbelief that it's even happening? Or are there other options to consider?

My own shattering experiences seem to have happened so often that I notice them, never could figure what was going on, so kind of just accept them, bad as they feel, and senseless as to the why/what and what, if anything, I could truly do, other than ride them out. That said, it felt like they were going to destroy me when they happened.

They became habitual, but fighting them seemed to make them worse. Rolling with the punch might be an apt phrase. If I don't do that rolling/accepting, it does feel like I'm about to shatter. Sometimes I wonder how I made it through the explosive feelings.

Back to the "self" though. I'm only speculating, but it's based on years of reading about this. Alright, so something that CG Jung and others have posited is that there's a Self (capital S) and self (small s). The Self is the steady observer that's always there; that makes us seem like a unit. The self is more like the daily part, the Self sticks around. And the self can also be multiple characters, something a fellow named Pierro Ferruci (book "What We May Be") was hep on. So each person is kind of their own universe, even. And no, it's not schizophrenia although it could go that route, I suppose.

It might sound contradictory, but maybe part of the scenario is we think that shouldn't or can't happen (and mind is part of small self thinking that). But maybe it's supposed to work that way, and the shattering is also a small self mechanism that prevents the larger shatter from happening (maybe there's multiples of small selves?), like a small fault line diverting another tracer that could trigger an earthquake.

Per usual, I've probably got several heads spinning  about now, so end of story--play with options. We're allowed to be creative (aha--another self!).

Thanks for sharing this, I Like Vanilla. It's prob more common than we think, and maybe we're better at this than those mechanical search engines anyway.

All of the social messaging in society is geared to being "normal". Normal is defined as running around like crazy, endlessly buying stuff (all-marketing-all-the-time), cheering your commercialized sports team, and participating in the marketplace at all costs. Values are no longer life traits, they're the latest low price on what you just have to have.

The only thinking desired is whatever it takes to guarantee one's role as a consumer. The word citizen isn't even heard much anymore, it's totally consumer oriented..."and here is the news; consumers today were said to...".

As tired said: "it's arrogant to think you might know yourself." Social consensus feeds on insecurity and it begins with the message to be "normal" and that means be social at all costs.

Because I live in the woods, people assume I must be anti-social...yeah, right; and next weekend I'm running a dinner theatre programme involving dozens of people. It's perfectly fine to be as social, or not, as you choose to be--in many of our situations, we need to factor in our cptsd to find our tolerable comfort niche (I'll be drained from social anxiety after the event but the artistic need to do it overrides at this point).

Unless you know yourself, who determines your needs--you or the media-saturated culture with its seal of approval? 

Hi, newbie  

Breaks are great. What happens sometimes is we're in a hurry to get there, sense we're making progress, and want the answers that seem so close; and then panic when they elude our grasp again.

Plus there's the comfort of being able to connect with others who get it. It's also really cool to lend a helping word or 2 or 50 when needed and one feels they can. The confidence game is huge for me--can I really do this...I always fear being misunderstood (I love the edit button!), or that it doesn't matter what I think, period. I've sensed that you struggle with this, too.

So it's good to see you've had a chance to mellow a bit, see where your recovery needs are, and show up here again. Your spirited presence was important, and missed when you weren't around recently. It seems key, now, to pick out a surer pace, one that feels right for you. Based on what you've shown and shared here before, you'll figure where and when to fit in. It's never easy, is it? But all we can do is carry on.

Welcome back! 

One more thought...I'm afraid I made acceptance sound like a one-way street, accepting only what's past, and/or that it only influences the present via flashbacks, etc. The flipside is that by choosing acceptance one is also recognizing their own role in determining the future, for example choosing to seek help, find other options, or refine one's approach to further healing. So I can accept that I'll probably feel hopeless, but when I do I can also accept that maybe I'll discover a new hope, something to look forward to.

Thanks for posting this topic--it's always fun to consider what options we have when life gets heavy. 

Spiritual bypass refers to the psychological detours many people take, avoiding what they really need in the name of so-called spirituality.

It isn't meant to be anti-religious at all, though it may appear that way to some. It merely seeks to describe the perils and pitfalls of relying on a strictly religious/spiritual approach when deeper healing is called for. This is especially relevant for people dealing with the sort of deep psychological wounds stemming from conditions such as cptsd. 

Three excellent discussions regarding spiritual bypass can be found via the following links:

http://lonerwolf.com/what-is-spiritual-bypassing/

http://robertmasters.com/writings/spiritual-bypassing/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-sobriety/201110/beware-spiritual-bypass

Hypervigilante,

Once I left my foo with no regrets, I resigned myself to the possibility of having no one I could ever get close to in my life...it was just too much for me, so many people had let me down, and worse.

Later I found a life that fit me better, but never developed any real friends. Some tried, but I couldn't take it in, my self-worth never felt comfortable. Couldn't trust others, or even myself.

Finally, 4 people who'd worked with me in an artistic venture didn't give up on wanting me as their friend. They stuck with me, and eventually I realized I needed them as much as they wanted me a part of their lives.

I never thought I could have friends like them in the first place; didn't think I deserved it, but they became a key element of that long "self-discovery road" you spoke of. And then, all 4 died within months of each other. I was bereft at this, left friendless once more, and it rattled every ounce of self-worth they'd worked so hard to help me find.

So I share the pain of that loss, when the path that was at least tolerable becomes much less so, and one wonders if it's ever going to be worth it.

Thank you for sharing, hard as it was.

Take good care, hypervigilante...    

BigGreenSee123 wrote:

"To accept hopeless or fear requires that you kind of allow yourself to sink into these things."

It's not that one consciously allows it, it happens anyway; allowance isn't the same as acceptance. Trying to stop it is like saying don't think about something for the next 30 seconds (elephant, colour, mountain, etc.). The thoughts rush in to fill the gap--whether they be good, bad, indifferent.

For me, the acceptance/okay part comes when I realize that I will probably have the "falling apart" feelings regardless. I always have. I don't like it. But it's happened and I'm learning it comes, and goes, like waves in the ocean. Separate waves, one ocean.

I'm very attuned to the other people conundrum you touched on as well. Haven't learned enough self-compassion to know how to speak clearly for myself. The old give-an-inch-take-a-mile rule kicks in. Trouble is, I'm so scared of disapproval I let them take the mile to save the peace. Maybe I accept everything but me. Sigh.