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I walk down the store.
I girl approaches me, at the entrance: "Could you buy me some cigarettes?" (There's an age requirement here to be able to buy them, by law)

"No", I say.
Hypocrite. I'm a walking chimney.
But it is time this smoking crap is stopped.
So I don't mind I'm a hypocrite for smoking myself and 'denying' hers.
She can start at 21.
If she still craves them.
I don't mind her scorning look at me.

Yay me! 

[Prospero:]

This weekend the neurologist Oliver Sacks passed away.

This thread is to celebrate his life, his work, and the man himself.
You may know him through the movie-adaptation of one of his works: a book on how he treated, as a young MD, people suffering from 'sleep-decease' with a new drug, L-dopa. The movie is "Awakenings", with Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams (as Oliver Sacks).

Here is a TED-talk by him on hallucinations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOTaXhbqPQ#t=808

I first got to 'know' Oliver Sacks in 1993 when he featured in a TV-series on (what I would summarize as): "the nature of our consciousness".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Glorious_Accident
(the premise of the series is that our consciousness is a Glorious Accident as a byproduct of evolution. The inspiration for the title has come from Shakespeare:

Prospero:
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.

The Tempest Act 4, scene 1, 148–158

The whole series has been posted on YouTube, though I can't watch it, due to the original broadcaster having it had blocked for my country. (I have the book though, with full transcripts of the interviews  )
Quite possibly it's blocked for many more countries/regions, but I'l post the link anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL3C-gVusyE&list=PLpwW1A7bLV_yxWe9_l7rt4X09plJ6SFLw&index=1

In honor of his life, the broadcaster has aired the episode with Oliver Sacks yesterday, and made it available as a video-stream once more for me, temporary no doubt. . But possibly this is not available outside my region.
http://www.npo.nl/een-schitterend-ongeluk-oliver-sacks/31-08-2015/VPWON_1248827
The interview with Oliver Sachs is in English, while there is some 'narrative' in Dutch in between. Not much is lost if you miss out on that.

The series has made a profound impact on my life when I saw it in my mid 20's.
And so have quite a few books by Oliver Sachs I've read since.

Thank you so much, Oliver Sacks, for having been among us.  and  and 

This weekend at a yearly get-together with friends we will give each other gifts. Lots of them.

One of the guys is a bit of a stickler for 'living in the now' ("nu" in Dutch). Which is a good thing.

So I made him this:

[attachment deleted by admin]

[have]

I'm a bit puzzled on my feelings and thoughts. So if anybody has a perspective on this, please shoot.

The situation:
I have a couple of great friends. Who also have friends. On the whole I regard them as acquaintances, some are nice, to others I'm indifferent.
Let's call them Friends of Choice (FrOC) and Friends in Law. (FrIL)
I recently (two months ago) had a fall out with two FrIL, a couple. Her I like, him not so much.
She had invited me over for diner, her BF was invited too (they live separate). All started out fine, but within half an hour I got into an argument with BF, basically over the idea "one should always take into account the intent of another person".
Since I have an uHPDmom, I've only just learned that I don't have to take into account her 'intent'. If her behavior bothers me, her intent does not have to be of concern to my response.
He called me selfish, egoistic.
I tried to defuse the situation, but he kept banging me up. Things got unpleasant.
I left! Ha! I had never done such a thing, but I thought of myself: "What a brilliant move, Uncle. Way to go!" Obviously I was also embarrassed to leave the hostess and her diner (well, actually I left right after diner was done, but I still left diner, as far as I'm concerned), but I quite literally didn't see another way out.

This is just the introduction. Bear with me

This weekend there is a yearly get together with both FrOC and FrIL. This is a great event, and actually joining this event about 7 years ago has played a major part me in coming out of the FOG. (that I only realized later)
One month ago a dear FrOC told me that something should be done, the 'fight' appeared to spill over to this yearly get-together.
I was surprised, and a bit annoyed. Enmeshment... Yikes.
So after some deliberation with myself, I decided to phone them both, and apologize for 'letting it get out of hand', in which I undoubtedly also played a role (the 50% rule). I made sure to just apologize for my part and NOT bring up "but you did...blahblahblah." No fauxpologies from my side.
With her the call was 'easy', she apologized as well, things were smoothed out. We said we would meet at the get-together.
With him it was quite different. He accepted my apologies, downplayed them somewhat, but made clear he didn't want to see me for a while. Fine, his choice, his right. I didn't insist, didn't mention the get-together. That seemed as 'putting gasoline on the fire' to me. I would see how his remark would play out. There was still a month to go anyway.

Then a few weeks ago news reached me both would not attend the get-together. I got a bit anxious about the blame being passed on me, but I managed to calm me down. The others are too great people to shift blame in the first place, and of course not going is their decision, not mine. And I didn't call them names, BF did. I still don't know why he got in such a frenzy.

Then yesterday the GF called me. It was OK, we chit-chatted a bit, and then she told me I should not feel bad for them not coming this weekend. That was OK. I showed my appreciation. She went on a bit, and I told her I was not bothered anyway. That it was their choice anyway. Perhaps that is JADEing, but I somehow needed to tell her that she should not feel bothered about me possibly feeling bothered of them not coming. Or some such thought-process. Call went on for a while, all fine and dandy, and we wished each other a nice weekend.

Now here's the clue, the question.
At first I got a bit anxious anyway that possibly by saying (paraphrased) "oh, I'm not bothered at all by you(plural) not coming" might be misconstrued. But I managed to calm that down.
But now I think: was it actually a nice thing to do by her, calling me up two days before the event they have foregone? Why stir the pot? Why bring up I might feel bad about it? Now I 'had' to reassert my not-being-bothered, and mostly towards myself I had to reassert: "It's their call anyway". And so this call has to a certain degree only upped the ante.

Now, I'm convinced there is no malice from her side. We are cool with each other.
But how do I process all these thoughts and feelings?
And in a way: Am I being "selfish and egoistic" for 'brushing aside' their non-presence? By partying just fine with the other FrOC and FrIL like there is no difference? These people are an important part of my support-system (what a stupid word in this context. They are not a system at all, they are people.) and so there is something at stake here...

Enmeshment. I've just started to see and unravel the enmeshment with my FOO, and now it seems I have to deal with enmeshment in my FrOC.



I'm going to have a good time regardless, and so will everybody else, I'm a 100% sure of that. 

Madness. I've started on a cleaning spree. I've got so much stuff that reminds me of nasty episodes, toxic people, horrible events...
Why do I even keep this stuff?

Because they were presents. Stupid presents that I either didn't like from the start, or that turned out rubbish: books I didn't like, music I didn't like etc.

Why did I keep them? Because they were presents from people I was supposed to hold dear. Who behaved like jerks, but I couldn't say, admit to myself.

It's grown so bad over the years, decades, that I hardly can accept any gift. I always have the nagging feeling: "Someday you will have to pay them back, Uncle. They'll want their reward for the crappy so-called attention they gave you..."

So I have dumped a whole lot of books I have only half finished (halfway only through sheer willpower, sheer obligation to read the 'gift'.)
I've dumped old crap that were given to me only because 'they' didn't want the old crap themselves, but somehow themselves couldn't 'throw out'. (I also used to get half-empty soda bottles where all the fizz had disappeared, half eaten 'chips'-bags that had gone soft, overdue canned food, you name it. I had to have a huge battle to get 'them' to stop it. Lot's of sulking ensued. Ungrateful me, boohoohoo.)

I really need to clean out my house of all this old stuff. Useless stuff. Stuff I never wanted anyway, stuff I wouldn't buy myself anyway, stuff that doesn't belong to/with me. Old crap.
It's not even MY old crap, it's THEIR  old crap!

I'm sick and tired of being the dumpster, the landfill. I'm buried under this stuff.

I need some air. And space to take in the good stuff.

Argghhh!!!.

[me]

This has been sitting on my desktop for a while now. I thought that perhaps more could be added.
But now I feel it's time and worthwhile to at least drop these 'tidbits'...

I'll kick off with my 'therapist'-mom.
Whenever I turned to her when I was 'down' (by an ended relationship, a failed exam, job-loss or something else non-catastrophic) this was the comfort that was offered to me:

- "You have not found your leak yet, Dutch Boy" (with the 'leak' being some defect in my aura, or some other new-age tripe)

- "You have no bottom, Dutch Boy"

- "Strife is Love". (As in: = )

- "We choose our parents before we reincarnate (in the FOO. Works in relation to choosing your elder brother(s)/sister(s) too.)" (making it a FOC, and so she gets a "get out of jail free"-card for any of her behavior. She was chosen by me, it's my bloody karma. (she never told me that directly, but that message definitely stuck.)

- "people only change when they hit rock-bottom" (While there may be some truth in that, this usually was more of an obligation to sink a little (or preferably a LOT) deeper, than an encouragement/validation I had hit just 'rock-bottom', and that it was OK now, and the only way was up. Not a "wow, what great insight/life lesson you have gained, Dutch Boy! Off you go, dear son! .
But a way of saying: "You still haven't got a clue. Things must first get worse before they can get better." Or more specific: "Things will still get a lot worse before YOU can be better/cured, you no-good, troublesome and troubled son."

[totally]

Tomorrow I'll be going on a boat-trip with my dad. The whole day.
He's an uAsperger's, and since I've realized this over the course of the last past years, I nowadays read up on Aspergers before I meet him. In order not to trigger him, and (more importantly/selfishly) not to let myself get triggered (or hopefully at the very least: subsequently cool down ASAP.)
Things have been better since... at times.

But boy, do I get triggered by him. I spoke with him on the phone a few weeks back, and out of the blue he rebuked me, for not being totally honest: "Your behavior is not befitting a father-son relationship!", he exclaimed angrily. "And now I'm going to sit on my terrace to enjoy the beautiful weather", he joyfully continued without a 'full stop' in-between the two sentences. (Perhaps there was, while I dissociated in the mean time. Honestly I can't tell. I don't remember a 'full stop' though. I'll bet a dear thing there wasn't.)

He can actually pull that off. And after a few days spend in agony/bewilderment over his remark, I finally calmed down through reading some (old and new) Asperger's-related articles. In those I learned 'they' can't even tell a 'white lie'. So probably my dad was very content with himself (at the very moment he said it): he had been totally honest with me when he told me my behavior was not befitting a son a father-son relationship. (edited: Notice the phrasing? I now notice how I 'make' this an issue about me being wrong, a lousy son. When in fact he is saying something about the father-son relationship. This difference is minor (?), but probably hugely significant. For him it's likely a 'technical'/logical issue, for me emotional/affectionate.) That statement probably was even a testament to his excellent parenting. He "showed me". And a model I should follow, I guess.

So, I'm reading up today. And researching some more. Oh, the agony of not knowing for sure!
And I came across this. About how people of my father's generation (WWII-child) coped with being an Asperger, without knowing. Without ANYBODY knowing (Hans Asperger's paper of 1944 (in German) only came to prominence in the 80's, it still took some time after that to get widely accepted and further research to be done on the 'syndrome'):

Without the neurology that supported an intuitive understanding of social behavior, many adults with AS learned to spend their time observing their environment and the people around them. They tried to make sense of the confounding behavior of their peers and tried to understand why people were always telling them, "You're so smart, why can't you just...(fill in the blank): A) go to a family function and behave (sensory, social and anxiety [experienced by the Asperger]), B) complete this work assignment (executive function, processing speed), C) just do what's asked of you (illogical, theory of mind), D) tell a therapist how you're feeling (reliance on thinking more than feeling). Through observation and trial and error (after error), many managed to survive into adulthood. Some adults with AS develop an understanding of the world around them, a framework of how and where they fit or don't, learn and apply skills and strategies to use in particular situations, anticipate and manage disturbing sensory input. Imagine how absolutely exhausting it is to do all of those things relying on cognition, not intuition. Nevertheless, after years of applying these skills and strategies, an adult with AS can look pretty good, maybe even "passing"—or almost passing—for NT (neurotypical).

source: http://www.aane.org/about_asperger_syndrome/living_asperger_syndrome_adults.html
(minor edits by me)

This part really stood out for me:
"tell a therapist how you're feeling (reliance on thinking more than feeling) [meaning: the Asperger is still 'thinking' while the therapist is continuously trying to get the 'patient' to access his/hers feelings. Well, what else can (s)he bloody do?! ]
That must have been impossible (?) for my dad.
I already shared my problems with my Therapist-mom (the first two paragraphs in this post: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2149.msg13314#msg13314). And my mom dragged my dad to therapy after therapy as well. Much more so that she did me. Together with her (to fix their marriage), but also on his own, from what I have gathered. Which is nothing much solid, I must admit.
I had already suspected these therapies must have been torture for him (if he indeed is an Asperger), but now that I actually see it in writing... I shudder in horror.

The marriage broke 15-odd years ago. My father still can't see his wife as his ex. (She left him, for clarity sake)

So, I'll be sitting on a sightseeing boat, biting my tongue. Dealing with a Double Dutch Uncle (=Dad), and possibly having to force myself to behave as such for my own sanity.

Wish me luck!

[So what am I recovering from?]

I've wanted to start a recovery journal for some time now, but can't decide on the format yet.
I feel I should also write some more "letters of recovery" in that section of the board, and this is not the place it was intended to that kind of stuff. But I might, for fear of flooding that section of the board.

But as a kickoff for this section, I've decided to first start with making a list of all the recovery I've already done in my life.
From some I have relapsed since, picked myself up again sometimes as well.

Edited to add: As I'll continue to add to this journal, both of stories past and present, I will insert events chronologically. In order not to mess up my original first post to much, I'll resort to my old computer-programming skills in BASIC. (Yes, I'm that old)
I've learned then to write every line in code (which had to be numbered) with a prefix in increments of 10, so if one would find out a line needed to be inserted for the program to work, one would have 9 opportunities to do so. So it's not going to 'neatly' ordered as far as the increments are concerned. But it will be chronological, as to the best of my ability I can remember. (I don't know why I even bother to explain this, it must be because I have a mild form of OCD  )

So what am I recovering from?
From being raised in, and still enmeshed with, a family with "cluster B"-PD-mom and an Aspergers-dad. I'm now, after a long and torturous journey, convinced this is so. I'm as sure as one can be without a formal diagnosis of them by a psych-evaluation team. This is why I will keep speaking of them as uHPD and uAspergers. But I am a 100% sure, as sure as an 'outsider' can be. In addition I have (had? I'm NC now) a sister who I now deem to be HPD as well (she's worse than my mom, if that's even possible) and a brother who tortured me physically as a child. A very normal family. Or so I thought.

03) A very early childhood memory. Probably the first time I spoke out (timidly) about how dysfunctional my FOO was.
I'm ten or so. Definitely primary school, so I can't have been older then twelve. But I think it was well before my last year there.
I'm sitting on the floor, upstairs, mom being in the bathroom putting on make-up and I'm saying, quietly while playing with my toys: "you and dad are going to divorce, aren't you." My mom did console me that this was not the case. I do remember her worried look on her face though.
In hindsight (very long hindsight ) she gaslighted me. I'd now say. They did divorce, 25 years later, 15 years ago. I think my parents started marriage counseling around that time. Possibly they were already in it.

05) As a kid I was taken to hospital with acute appendicitis. 'Mom' brought me, ran of to do some errant and I only saw my parents again in the recovery-room, post-op. Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us. Only now I am in the process of writing today A Special Mothers Day Message I remember that during my full week stay in the hospital I got a visit by a neighboring mother (of a friend of mine) and I felt so much more cared for by her than my own mom. Also I was delighted by the nurses who actually asked me what I would like to have for breakfast, lunch and diner, and my requests would actually be fulfilled. Hospital was actually quite a present place to stay. 

07) a puber's defiance: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg13608#msg13608

08) Wow. Noises that trigger/bother me. That immediately brought back memories to "fleeing to the toilet", just like my dad did. (was he triggered due to his uAspergers?), and it reminded me how often doors were being slammed shut. Oh dear, how deeply buried some of this memories are. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3986.msg23224#msg23224

10) My first step in my recovery was leaving the parental home at the age of 20. One of the prime reasons to make sure I did well in secondary school was the promise of then being able to study 'in the big city'. That was a sure ticket out of the small town/suburb I grew up in that was boring as *. Well, as heaven probably, as it was dominated by very strict Calvinist religious politics. I was raised in the national 'Bible Belt'. Pinball machines were banned, just to give you an idea of how bad it was.

20) My second step was to move to a squat despite the fact that my dad threatened to cut my allowance. I had 'saved for' that in a way, as all my friends during secondary school got a lot more 'pocket money', gifts, mopeds (which would be the equivalent of a car in the US I guess (culturally speaking)) and such. "You'll get a study allowance later, Dutch Boy, so quit whining", my parents had always said. Well, that turned out as a way of extended control, I see now. The squat was to be renovated by us Engineering students though, so this was a poke at my future profession as well.

30) My third step was to break up with a girl who used dope and at some point in our relationship decided she was going to whore herself out to pay for her all-weekend drugged fueled parties. I hardy ever joined her, and I didn't enjoy those 'all-nighters. Did do the dope on those few accessions though. I had to stay awake! (read: be 'worked up'). I thought: "Well after a few months or so she must get disgusted/bored selling her body", so I hang around. She did get bored, but I guess the dope compensated for any misgivings she had about her 'job'.
I left. Heartbroken, but still, I did it. Dropped out of University for the following year. Started again the year after. Stupid. Engineering wasn't my ballgame, but I had blamed it on my relationship troubles (not blaming the girlfriend: that was a smart move/realization, I still tell myself).

40) My fourth step was to quit some vague therapy my mother had 'forced' on me during that 'sabbatical'. Some new-age* babble with a guy who had just started his practice. I only ended up there because my mom's 'Guru' didn't want to take me (I don't know why, and I never cared). In the third meeting we overstepped the allotted time by half an hour or so, and he blamed that on me! I should have watched the time! Dufus. I had noticed, but thought: "He's in charge, probably we are doing very well, for him to keep on babbling/asking me stuff." I never returned. "I'm more 'aware' then you are", I thought. And rightfully so.
*) disclaimer: "New age" is a bit of a catch-all generalization. While "new age" certainly has opened new vistas on plenty of fields of inquiry, many new age cults have emerged, and plenty of harm has been done as well, and continues to do so, IMHO. So whenever I refer to "new-age", I refer to dogmatic, close-minded cultism. As my mom practices it. It's a means of distancing myself from 'it'. I don't want to demean anyone. So no offense to anyone or anything is meant.

50) My fifth step was to quit my (renewed) studies in the last year of graduating. I didn't see myself sitting/working at an office drawing engineering-plans all day. Never got much appreciation from my parents anyway, mom actively sabotaged my 'dreams'. HPD... Drama wanted. (My brother who did graduate never saw his mom at the ceremony. Mom had a girls-together-only weekend with friends. Go figure. But I digress.) I was in my late 20's by then.

60) My sixth step was to go and work abroad in a field where my engineering skills were wanted, but in a profession that had little to do with engineering. Suddenly I was a 'specialist'! Ha! I had ended up there through a stroke of luck and perseverance.
(I did well, was easily accepted by 'the profession'. I had stumbled on a great 'niche market', and over the course of the next 15 years was able to build up a respected position as free-lance-specialist in many projects. To such an extent I became part of 'the profession". This ended about five years ago. But before I'll reach that point here in this timeline, I had some more recovery steps)

65) My mother gets a life threatening illness. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg13710#msg13710

70) During those 15 years I took taken a seventh step. Again a break-up with a woman I could not possibly spend the rest of my life with. I've talked about that in the music thread, here (very long): http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2089.msg13254#msg13254

80) The eight step was a break down because I was fired (through no fault of my own: there simply was a budget cut) and I got depressed/sick and went to see first a psychologist and then a psycho-therapist. I got back on my feet again and continued happily ever after(slight hint of sarcasm there). I probably will elaborate on this at some point. That was a tough period that lasted about a year and a half.

External factor: My parents' divorce. At last. The whole process will take two-and-a-half year. Awful. Lots of unresolved stuff there.
81) also 505) october 2015 Working through my parents' divorce. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg16803#msg16803 and 531) I think I still need to mourn the divorce of my parents.
85) Sending an unopened letter from uHPDmom "return to sender" http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg14433#new

90) The ninth step was to attend a post-doctorate (post-graduate in the US?) program on Project Management, tailored to my new profession. I didn't have a doctorate (!) but the board let me in on basis of my motivation and field-experience. And probably also since I had a sort-of Bachelor equivalent in engineering. Not quite a doctorate (=Master)  though. I remember that at the first 'class' a previous colleague of mine blurted out in my face: "I thought this was only for highly educated people!" to which I calmly and genuinely happily responded, smiling: "Yep!".

My parents' divorce becomes final. Well, insofar anything is ever final with them. "Over and done with" is not really in their vocabulary. Neither is: "Let's move on."

100) The tenth step was to actually go fully self-employed in this profession, with the now additional skills in (and certified!) Project Management. I started a business of one. A bit of a gamble. It worked out well. (Free lance doesn't exist where I live (at least that's what the IRS says here . You are self-employed. You either have a business, or you have a job/position. There's nothing in between.)

Fallen in the pit, yet again
About five years ago came the downfall that essentially has brought me were I am today.
New regulations demanded I had to have a Masters degree in my profession. Quite a row broke out among the rank and file, as there were plenty of other people who stood to loose their jobs, and many companies now struggled to meet the new quality standards. A court-case ruled some program had to be set-up to make it easier for people like me to get a degree or certificate. I was not going to take a step down and decided to go for the Masters degree. I knew I had the intellect for it, so I decided to do this difficult thing. And expensive thing. And I would need to cut back on my working hours, so would loose income to boot.

I decided to study in the same city my sister was living in, a multiple hour drive from where I live. It was the best University suited for what I needed, and with Sis living there I thought: "Well, that could offset the traveling at times." Previously she had made it clear to me I was always welcome to stay over, when she had moved into a new house where I had spend days fixing, painting and cleaning (this was shortly before I even knew I could choose this University). I had never had a great relationship with her, but I considered it good enough, OK. (I still have to get used to that concept: good enough. It still feels for me as the equivalent of "indifferent", or a sleigh way of saying: it sucked.) She regularly whined, yeah, about mom, dad and certainly also about me, but this was 'normal', and we had always remained civil after such 'events'. In fact I thought this whole 'fresh up course' was a great opportunity to get a bit more 'together'.
WRONG.

The day I visited her to talk about my program at University and how possible sleepovers would fit her, she had one of her outbursts again, and everything I had ever done was horribly wrong. How I had always wronged her kids and partner, yada, yada, yada, and of course most of all that I was always doing her wrong. The same wrong, over and over again.
Baffled I left an hour early. My head spinned on the way back home. I had almost literally lost my ground. What the @#%&! was wrong here? She had told me stuff like this before, but never so ferocious. Or perhaps this was just the first time I really saw how ferocious her attacks were.

The date was 14 september 2011. About 9 PM. I've now made that my (re)birth date on this site. The day I consciously decided to step out 'what was', and to step into 'whatever may be'.

A few weeks later she contacted me, with what I now know to be a Hoover. She wanted to "talk it over". (That's a good one, I've learned by now: "to talk it over". Right! That's EXACTLY what it is supposed to be: not a conversation, not even a discussion or a debate... No, lets talk OVER it. Like a skipping stone over water. Boy, the power of language!) She sounded 'remorseful' enough, appeared to want to 'resolve' the matter, so I agreed to meet her, at her city.
WRONG. First meeting (6 october) she postponed, but I was so hooked and we set up another one. There I simply got the whole sermon AGAIN! Like I hadn't heard it before! (and before and before etc.) She had actually said so the previous time which had made me think: "Hmmm. yeah that's true. This is not the first time you've told me, I already hear this for decades. What the * am I even doing here?"

110) (this is actually recovery step eleven I realized during my last editorial check [of my first post])
I had (obviously) prepared for this "talk it over" (well, I had prepared for a conversation), and one of the things I wanted to know was if we were actually talking about the same thing, the same 'events' that had played out over and over again. So I had started to recollect these events in my mind, easily found six instances over the past 15 years or so where I had done this 'wrong' and settled for those: no point in dredging up more, I had six 'checks and balances'.
In a fit of FOGlessness, I realized that I should not ask her: "were these all instances of the time you told me I was doing you wrong?", for fear of her then denying those and finding something else to blame on me (I hadn't heard of "Plausible deniability" then. But I still 'knew' the concept apparently), but to make it an Open Question: "Can you tell where and when you said this to me before, sis?" An avalanche of examples flooded me. Of course there were 'the Six', six more where I immediately thought: "Good grief, yes. There's another one!" and about six that I was oblivious to (probably had repressed those) but which sounded very plausible.
She made some 'fauxpologies', but I didn't fell for those. (Like: "I shouldn't have mentioned the kids". "Right! Not only should you not have mentioned them, but you should apologize for 'bringing up the baby", I thought, but wisely(?) kept my mouth shut. No admission it was 1) a wrongful accusation and 2) it was wrong to use 'them' as a tool, a crowbar to make me feel bad about myself. )

So after a loooong "Talk" (no listening on her part, as far as I was aware) I found myself AGAIN going back home with my head spinning. "How can this be?", I kept thinking. "What is wrong with me?"
"I must be an Aspergers", I thought. "It's the only thing that makes sense. There's only one way I can 'read' my sister's emotional needs so badly and be so oblivious to it, and that's when I'm Aspergers." This was the 13 october.
The 22nd she mailed me in a nothing-has-happened manner. Pretended we could meet and spend time together, happily. I told her I already had made arrangements to stay at B&B's for the remainder of the year. That I wouldn't stay over at her place, that I didn't feel comfortable with it.

And then I started to slowly spiral down in the cesspool of my Dysfunctional FOO, of which I am still very much an enmeshed part. Though the FOG has started lifting ever since.

That's quite enough for today, I'd say.

I'll be back!
It's not going to stop at step twelve either I'm afraid  .

Thanks for listening.

----------

400) Telling my mom to leave my house. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg14011#new

Present day recovery stories

500) august 2015: Me and my dad on a boat-trip http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg13609#new
501) august 2015: I'll bet a dear thing this realization has been a step to recovery http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2246.msg14006#msg14006 . #400 is a prime example of how I became allergic to questions like "are you feeling OK?"
502) september 2015: Sticking to my NC with uHPD/uBPD/"cluster B"-sis. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg14838#new
503) september 2015: On my way to shedding a Dependent trait: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2363.msg15713#msg15713
504) september 2015: Intentions for Recovery http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg16551#msg16551
505) october 2015 Working through my parents' divorce. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg16803#msg16803
506) october 2015: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2736.0
507) october 2015: Setback? The horrors of an EF. Progress as well? First time I recognized an EF for what it was at the very moment http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2897.msg17431#new
508) october 2015: Allowing self-forgiveness. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg17515#new
509) october 2015: Changed my personal text (under my Avatar) from "Survivor. Spilling the beans" to "Survivor. Shifting the burden". Plenty of beans have now been spilled (more to come, for sure), and it's time to rearrange the burden on whom/what they weigh. Now looking for a new balance in/of things.
510) november 2015: TherapistMom, YOU'RE FIRED! http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3041.0
511) november 2015:

A reminder of my recovery motivation:
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
The second best time is now
A Chinese Proverb. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3044.msg18189#msg18189

512) and lo and behold a few hours later: I've planted a new tree: no more X-mas with the Dysfunctional FOO. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3052.msg18205#new
513) november 2015: I have sacked my TherapistMom, and will be processing the paperwork and other administrative 'duties' for a while longer. She'll fight her sacking no doubt (in my own bloody head !!!, good grief  )  But she's off the job as of today. No matter how many tantrums she'll pull. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg18546#msg18546
(LOL, I now see I already sacked her earlier this month! (510). Oh well, this just shows how hard it is to sack her.)    Diligence, Dutch, diligence. You're doing awesome 
514) Told my brother off as a Flying Monkey: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2310.msg19507#msg19507
515) Mom's  hoover averted. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2310.msg19508#msg19508
516) Punched through the FOG of Chaos Manufacture. Related to 502) (among others) http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2310.msg19509#msg19509
517) I will not have a purportful 2016. A happy 2016 will do just fine. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg19748#msg19748
518) Wrote a "letter of recovery to my Sister in Law", effectively stating why I am No Contact with her. Another codependent relationship ended. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3363.msg19876
2016
519) I woke myself up from an unpleasant dream. Now that is a good tool to have for countering EF's, dissociation etc. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3373.new#new
520) Discovered that I actually handled the ending of my FOO-codependent relationships quite well. That gives hope and confidence.
http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2170.msg20070#msg20070
521) Stepping further away from my codependent relationship with my brother and his FOC: http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3451.msg20347#msg20347
522) I promised myself to work on my "Fight" response, and bang! I've done it. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=3543.msg20910#msg20910 A good fight response IMHO. Clear. Boundary setting and defending. Not offensive. Holding my ground. Respectful to my opponent even, I feel. I am not going to be 'pressed into service', and I press back just hard enough to stay were I am and want to be. I do not press back so hard that I have to take a step 'forward'. Then I would not be at the place I am and want to be either.  Good practice round. Balanced.
NB: this exchange reminded me of this audio-clip ***trigger warning: it's a rant on a variety of subjects that people may find rude for a variety of reasons*** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcvWzyvn4MI of Douglas Murray and my hero Sam Harris, where Douglas Murray slips into a rant against the 'liberal left', on and on (and makes a couple of excellent points) which at the very end of the clip makes Sam Harris chuckle, chuckle harder and then finds the rant outright hilarious. "I miss this capacity, perhaps I meditated too much and it has damaged my brain."  "Keep this capacity well oiled, Douglas." are the final words of Sam.
edited to add a month later: well, that did cause a stir. I'm sorry about that. But today I want to add another worthwhile article: http://mindfulconstruct.com/2010/01/15/the-dark-side-of-mindfulness/ . I post this as today I have become more aware of my TherapistMom's New-Ageism. I posted some of this in the "Religious Abuse" board. But it is becoming increasingly clear to me that her particular brand of Hindu based "therapy" stems from the same religion that still allows today for castes as the "Untouchables". And her treatment of me reflects this.
530) I'm mourning. Not in a depression. That's a relief. http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=4018.msg23477#new
531) May: I think I still need to mourn the divorce of my parents. Most of the grief I feel there is the fact that it's a completely buried subject. Since both my parents have kept silent and/or very vague on their divorce, I really could not speak with anybody about it, and so I could never have any validation for my feelings/experiences with both the divorce, the divorce process and the horrible marriage it was itself. In a way my NC with 'mom' and 'sis', effectively disbanding the FOO as a unit/community I am finally grieving the divorce. I have hung a not on the wall in my bedroom saying: "If my parents don't dissolve their dysfunctional relationship (since they still continue, despite their 'divorce'), than I will divorce myself from their toxic dysfunctional relationship.

A joke about myself: or
"I suffer from an inverse Oedipus-complex, as even after my mother made herself available to me by divorcing her husband, I'm still not want to marry her."

In a program I saw on national television called Tinkering with the soul there was a segment on research that is done to treat survivors of trauma pharmaceutically, i.e. they have developed a pill to do more or less the equivalent of EMDR (I think).

Unfortunately this program is not available for stream outside my country (and was primarily focussed on the ethics of 'tinkering with the soul, i.e. the "I" of a person, anyway) but I thought I might post the webpage of the principal researcher at the University involved in this research. The pill is up for trials now. The program showed the treatment on a woman who had experienced a (single) traumatic event, and interviewed on her experience afterwards, which had completely erased any anxiety still related to the event. (I'm not sure if the memory of the event was erased completely, or just the traumatic component).

In the link there is a list of scientific publication on this (and other) work of Prof. Dr. Merel Kindt.
Most publications (if not all) are in English.
http://www.uva.nl/over-de-uva/organisatie/medewerkers/content/k/i/m.kindt/m.kindt.html
alternative site for list of publications:
https://scholar.google.nl/citations?user=DWzO6-kAAAAJ&hl=en

Probably it's all very scholarly, but some times the 'abstracts' of scientific articles are quite readable.

An article from Time magazine, so not very in-depth, but still rather interesting.

There's some links to other Time articles that I also found interesting.

Excerpt:

The research, which was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, suggests that abused children who develop post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) may experience a biologically distinct form of the disorder from PTSD caused by other types of trauma later in life.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/04/30/abused-children-may-get-different-form-of-ptsd/

[***probable triggers***]

Music can be so soothing for me. In a whole range of emotions. In fact, sometimes I have a tune in my head, and only when I play the song I know why it's in my head.

So, I'd like to start a thread in which we can post songs to share, or just to remind ourselves of what it means to us.
Happy, sad, inspiring, soothing, opening the floodgates of grief... Anything goes.

If you want and feel like it, share a bit of your story with us.


It's probably superfluous to mention this, as music is one of the few forms of communication that so directly speaks to/touches our emotions, but here it goes:

***probable triggers***

This post is inspired by a few threads on the inner critic section.

(edited to add: this is a letter of recovery involving my younger me, my inner child, my 'nephew'. Perhaps that's not clear since I speak to my younger self in the third person.)


Dear little Dutch Nephew,
How early you already had such a harsh Inner Critic. It breaks my heart.

I remember how you once went to kindergarten. You probably were just 4 or 5 years old. Definitely not older, at 6 you went to primary school.
You had walked from your parental home to Kindergarten Class, as you apparently were taught to do from an early age. It wasn't very far from home, but for a small child like you it must have meant some sort of Huge Journey Trough the Unknown every day.
You arrived one day, and you were late. All the kids and teachers had already entered class, so you encountered an empty schoolyard. Nobody there to welcome you. You felt so lost.
The Door Closed. Your Safe Haven taken away from you after this bit scary trip through the wilderness between two 'homes'.
In horror you turned around, and you started running back home. Crying and terrified since you knew you had done a Horrible Wrong! You weren't wanted there anymore.
Your Inner Critic scorned you. Oh boy, was he with you from an early age. "How could you have been so stupid to arrive late at Kindergarten!!!", he yelled at you. (no, no question mark after that question. There wasn't a question for the Inner Critic. There was definitely not an 'answer' for your transgression to find. The answer was clear by even putting the 'question' before you: You were Wrong, this was Your Doing! You Stupid, Naughty, Good for Nothing little boy! Shame on You!

Luckily you did find your Mom at home, and she consoled you, took you by the hand and led you back to Kindergarten. Still crying, or sobbing. Guilt ridden for sure. I remember well, dear nephew.
The teachers were kind to you, they had seen you coming through the classroom windows, and expressed surprise to see you turning around and running of. They told you nothing had been wrong, you had just been a bit late and off course you would have been allowed to get into class.

It did bring some solace. But not much.
I think the Inner Critic kept mocking you. Sulking in it's little corner in your brain. Vengeful for his defeat that day.
There had been nothing Wrong with You.
Your timeframe and Kindergartens timeframe simply didn't match for once. Such things happen, dear nephew. Nobody to Blame.

I offer you a hug, dear nephew. I offer you a save place in my embrace, oh little one. Together we'll talk with the tiny little Inner Critic that accompanies you, and find him a safe place too.
You can stop feeling scared of him.

You will always have me to run to.

Yours,
Your Dutch Uncle.

:kiss:

Hysperger---> Dutch Uncle.
It suits my posting style better. Or equally as good. 

Too many EF's on my old nick, I realized today.

I only recently stumbled on the article on the outer critic by Peter Walker. http://www.pete-walker.com/pdf/ShrinkingOuterCritic.pdf

I could only find this thread ( http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=664.0 ) on it. I got the "older than 120 days" warning when I tried to respond there, so I hope I will not trespass on any forum rules if I start a new thread on the topic.
I'm not sure however, so I apologize for any infractions on the rules. The red warning was frightening and this has been a safer option for me.


I've found the article enlightening, as I have been struggling with "Inner Critic" issues, and I was sure that only dealing with those would not bring me healing. So I actually thought of myself: what about an outer critic? My whole FOO (and the occasional others) are a bunch of outer critics who will simply not leave me alone.
Practically all meetings/encounters I have with them are filled with criticism. We simply cannot agree on anything, it seems, even if we agree. Or I should better say: even if I agree with them, they'll find something else to disagree with me on, or they even disagree that I agree with them. It boggles the mind.

The reason I went NC with one of my FOO, and have entered LC with the others (in a downward spiral) is because of the inachievability of agreement with them.


Peter Walkers article did address that issue. As a 'solution', or at the very least a "therapeutically" tool, he suggests:

Angrily saying "No!" to the critic, the sabotaging proxy of our dysfunctional caregivers, therapeutically externalizes our anger so it is not internalized against us or used destructively against our potential intimates. Psychodynamically speaking, angering at the critic helps us to work through unresolved transferrential anger that emanates from the past and gets destructively displaced onto present relationships.

I do find that going NC (or LC for that matter) is a way for me to express my anger towards my FOO. Being angry in their face has never helped a bit, and now I can at least vent my anger towards them in my own privacy.
And 'doing' NC or LC is in essence a very big "NO!" to them, a NO that tells them: "You're out. NO, I don't want to spend time with you, NO I don't like your company."

So, by going NC with my real-life outer critics, I may free up space and courage to kick my brain-child-outer-critic out of my life too.
The real-life outer critics only keep feeding/reassuring/resupplying my 'imagined'-outer critic.


Long story short:
I do think Peter Walkers article just reinforced my decision to go NC and LC with the critics who are out there.


Reflections on this are welcome.
Stories/experiences on how you deal with your outer-critic(s) are welcome too.

[me]

So, I did a SCID-II screening, and I have no PD. Period.
I did score a few points at various PD indicators, but well below the threshold for a PD.

I'd like to talk about one of them, and if it has any relation to CPTSD.

In de BPD section I scored on "temporary, anxiety tied, paranoid ideas or severe dissociative experiences" (probably a lousy translation, but hey, I think you get the picture.)

The example (as mentioned in the report on my SCID-II):
My mom and sis (both uHPD) are in the 'therapy' business. Apparently this is not uncommon: the urge for self-help manifest itself in helping others. They have a great need in helping me. All sorts of things are wrong with me, at my core. But I digress.
So at a point in me coming out of the FOG, I had this notion that I was in a very uneven battle. They are therapists, and thus know every trick in the book. Good or bad. Yes, bad.
At some point I got this mental image of always fighting with them, defending myself "No! I'm not wrong, there is nothing wrong with me, let me BE!!!!!", to no avail. I felt like boxing with professional heavyweights (or any weight for that matter) while I was just an amateur. Off course I always lost! (my Sis actually trains girls self-defense against (sexual) assault)

Fast forward to a meeting with a dear friend, whom I know since I was 15. One of the guys with whom I entered puberty, adolescence and what have you not after that (I'm about 50).
He said at some point: "You know, Hysperger, you are in a boxing match with two professionals, and you simply cannot win." 

I was baffled. I didn't trust my own senses. I didn't trust him. Did HE just say that? Or was he simply copying what I had said earlier to him? (I don't recall telling ANYONE ever about me being the sparring partner being knocked into the hospital by the great Champ(s)) Was he just pleasing me? Was he just saying this to be finally of the hook by all my whining about Mom and Sis?
It was a horrible feeling, because I'm SO convinced that none of this is the case. (rationalizing afterwards: if any of this was true, why would he even still invite me over for diner with his wife, and cook the most gorgeous food? (He's a sort of Gordon Ramsey, including the foul language if he deems it appropriate. He spares no-one, when applicable. I love the guy).

But the paranoia was still there, and hard to kill.


Scenes like this are rare, but I have the feeling they should not be there AT ALL. Not on this level of mistrust at least.

Thoughts?

NB: I want to pursue some more of these SCID-II points. They are not PD's, but they are certainly a pain in the butt. I would like to have a bit more grip on these levers.

Hi all,

only yesterday I signed up at Out of the FOG.
Today I thought it could be a good this to join Out of the Storm too.

I'm not sure if I'm CPTSD or not. It's a line of inquiry for me, that I might pursue in a therapeutic setting with psychologists.

I'll copy the introduction I wrote yesterday on OOTF. I hope this is not a breach of a policy of 'spamming the boards'. It does relate though to joining OOTS, which I will elaborate on below

--- from OOTF ---
"I'm a man from Europe of around 50.
I'm a recovering alcoholic, and currently in the process of looking for a good therapy to deal with underlying problems that (most probably) triggered my alcoholism. The booze is under control, and since a couple of months I have been visiting a psychology-centre in order to determine 'what's wrong'.

That's been quite a quest, and about a months ago I took the SCID-II test to see if I had a personality Disorder. The good news is: I have not. I did score a few 'points' on various traits of various disorders, but well below the threshold. And when I scored, they were solely in the domain of my family. Thus the psychologists determined that a PD is out of the question.
Soon I'll have another meeting with them on what path I would like to follow, what kind of follow-up, if any, is wanted.

For years now I've been looking around on the internet, primarily for self-diagnosis, but as well for family-diagnosis. I still am, and I found this site/forum only yesterday. I do think this forum could be a worthwhile addition to speaking with psychologists/therapists and my support group: my friends, many of whom I know for decades and who have been hearing my stories for that time.

My mother is a therapist, of the New-Age variety. Can't say I'm very happy with her. She's been telling me for I-don't-know-how-long that I should go into therapy, and how something always is wrong. I've long held the idea that she's the one who actually makes me 'sick', and it was only through the talks I had with the psychologists recently that I actually voiced this suspicion. Which led to me getting the SCID-II test+interview.

I come from a dysfunctional family, that much is sure to me. I once looked up the page on Wikipedia, and I could immediately tick-off half the traits mentioned. The day after, I could tick of another 25%, with just a little effort. After that I quit. I knew enough. Took quite a while still before I sought professional help though.

As it is now, I'm convinced my mother has a personality disorder, probably Hystrionic PD. Didn't know it even existed, only to find out when I read the report on me from he SCID-II, and looked up the 9 disorders that this test is about. Previously I suspected NPD. Or perhaps even Munchausen by Proxy.
My dad has possibly Asperger. At first I feared I was the one with an autistic trait. I did some online tests, that turned out negative. Then I found one that was apparently also good to test 'others', and did it 'for' my dad. I'm aware it's notoriously difficult (if not outright impossible) to diagnose others with a PD or such (Asperger/autism isn't a PD), a fact underscored by the psychologists I now see, but I think it's save to say that at least from my perspective my dad shows a trainload of characteristics from the autism spectrum.

One of my siblings shows traits of HPD as well, I think. I'm a no-good in her eyes as well, and she has said for decades now that I "don't EVER take into account ANYBODY". A few years ago I was so baffled to hear this again, for the 15th time or so in as much years (we meet twice a year, apart from family gatherings), that it send me into a downwards spiral. How could this be true? It couldn't be. Unless I was autistic, I thought. Hence my quest in that topic.

I think that pretty much sums it up. In a nutshell.
A tiny nutshell. For a big nut.

Thanks for listening, Hysperger."

--- End of OOTF ----

So I will have another session at the psychology centre in a few days, and the focus of that talk is: Now that we've established you don't have a Personality Disorder, now what?
In a sense I'm afraid to bring up I could be suffering from CPTSD. "Here I go again", I hear myself (and them) saying: "I really crave being 'sick' or 'wrong'. Why can't I simply walk out of here, happy in the knowledge there's nothing wrong with me?"

Well, first of all I feel I still have a few issues to fix. I've become an alcoholic, and even though I'm recovering, the thought I even went that far is still a scary memory. I never want to be there again. So I now have a symptom under control, but what about the causes? I'm afraid I will do some other stupid thing if I don't get a better handle on what has led me into alcoholism.
And given that substance abuse can be a sign of C-PTSD, I'm worried.
Or glad, I'm not really sure.

The basic feeling I have now, after having had addiction-counseling and the SCID-II test is: I'm still in the phase where a diagnosis needs to be established for my dysfunctional behavior. Because after I had the booze under control I was moved forward to the psychologists (with a primary diagnosis of an anxiety disorder/problem. OK with me, I was anxious and they need something in order for the insurance to cover treatment), but now it's been firmly established I do not have an Anxiety disorder, nor a PD.

Now what? The psychologists still have my best interest at heart, hence the talk I'll have soon: they too want an appropriate follow-up, now that they know I'm not at the right place (they are anxiety disorder professionals).
I strongly feel I need something, if only a healthcare professional that I can talk to now and then. I'm in a process, and that process will likely continue for a while, while I make alterations to my past behavior.
An interesting remark was made by my primary psychologist (a whole team has been wrestling with me  ) after the SCID-II that there are more patients "who have (had) parents that are therapists". I do think that's a worthwhile avenue to pursue. There might even be an established therapy/treatment for 'us'.

And like I've said: I have spotted traits associated with PTSD in my behavior and (twisted) feelings, so I seriously contemplate to at least put my suspicions on that on the table. I was 'right' about not having a PD (despite the insistence of my 'therapist' mother) after all.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading,
Hysperger