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Messages - Dutch Uncle

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I know I have fleas. I am very perfectionistic, I have a lot of trouble with criticism, and I lack much of a sense of self. I also make mistakes. So clearly, I am an N, a terrible person, shallow, manipulative, and selfish.

I have a confession, while I'm on the topic: I manipulated my Nmom. I manipulated her into leaving my brother and sister alone by fighting with her and going NC. I not-so-gently reminded her that CPS is a thing. I also threw my contact with my older sis in there for good measure. It's not manipulation without a good guilt trip. I did all of this knowingly and willingly.

I can't think of a joke. And even if I could, I have a very 'black sense of humor' (is that even English?), so it would have to go with a trigger alert.

But I have what may be an inspirational quote for you:
"What defines us is how well we rise after falling."

You're here, and you're owning up.
Is your mom?


General Discussion / Re: Finally Started Therapy
« on: May 19, 2015, 05:16:58 AM »

CPTSD Course Group #1 / Re: Group Recovery Update
« on: May 18, 2015, 11:05:13 PM »

If you would like to join a group please send the group moderator a PM. Thank you for your understanding. 


Who is the group moderator?

General Discussion / Re: Do you laugh out loud often?
« on: May 17, 2015, 11:05:55 AM »
though I can appreciate jokes or comical situation and have a good laugh, the 'carefree' part of the feeling is often missing

Well put!

I laugh a lot.
But the truly carefree part is a rarity.
I'd call those instances "Bliss".

General Discussion / Re: Finally Started Therapy
« on: May 17, 2015, 05:33:25 AM »
I just don't feel like anyone understands unless they've been through it, which is true for most things I suppose.

I know the feeling. It's hard.
At some point in my quest for understanding, I picked up this line from a self-help site (on self-compassion):
"[you can find self-compassion in the] Shared human experience. We often feel isolated as part of suffering and imagine that no one else could understand or sympathize with our pain. In truth, everyone suffers in similar ways."
To elaborate on this: Right now on this planet, there are many people who go through what you (I) are going through. Since time-immemorial people have been going through what you (I) are going through. And (unfortunately) in the future there will be many people who will go through what you (I) are now going through.
You are not alone, even if you don't know any of these people personally.

It did make me feel less isolated. And I still remind myself of it in those moments I feel utterly isolated, despite having a great support network of very dear friends, and it helps me.

A mantra that was suggested I still use to this day when things get tough:
This is a moment of suffering.
Suffering is part of life.
May I be kind to myself in this moment.
May I give myself the compassion I need.

I come here for support, so I really appreciate your replies.
This site (and its twin OOTF), which I only discovered a few days ago, seem to fit the bill for support I need besides my friends and my therapist.

Oh, I also cried because my T is so kind to me and I'm not used to having people be that kind. I want that kindness from my family but I will never get it from them. I have a boyfriend and friends but their kindness isn't the same I suppose.
It's great to hear your T is so kind to you!
That your boyfriend and friends show you a different kindness is OK, no?
Great you have found an additional source of kindness with your T.

I'm 32 years old and wondering if I will ever be able to thrive instead of just survive. I am so unhappy with my life, and feel like I am stuck until the therapy works enough to unstick me. I do t want to live like this forever.
Hang in there, therapy takes time. You've made it this far, you'll definitely get further!

I felt really bad and still do today - I've been in bed all day long and haven't eaten much. Is this normal?
Do eat as much as you can and like. Eat stuff you like, never mind what. Whatever you eat, it's always more nutritious then not eating.
I know one thing, therapy is demanding and a drain on your resources. Be kind to yourself and replenish those recourses in the most pleasant way you can think of.
A personal favorite of mine: let the sun feed me with vitamin D! Go out if you can and/or dare.

Take care!

General Discussion / Re: I need therapy just to go to therapy
« on: May 16, 2015, 06:04:08 PM »

I don't know if it's normal, but it sure doesn't sound like what it should bring to you.

Do you have a back-up contact?
The only serious therapy I ever had was addiction-related, and I could always call somebody at the clinic if I had great difficulty coping in between sessions.
I called once or twice, just because I was worried I wasn't coping well, and they were able to put me at ease again.
I advise you to bring this up at least at your next session.

The Cafe / Re: Favorite Quotes
« on: May 16, 2015, 05:46:27 PM »
If somebody can't understand your silence, they'd probably wouldn't understand your words.

I'd like to put in a word of caution:

It's very hard to diagnose anybody from a distance. Even trained psychologist/psychiatrist are reluctant to diagnose anybody who does not cooperate themselves. I've brought up my uHPD sister, uHPD mother and suspected Asperger dad in sessions with my psychologist, and basically the answer was: "I can't diagnose THEM without seeing them eye-to-eye in a cooperative atmosphere".

That being said, you are probably right by identifying certain traits of your mom and dad associated with certain disorders. Those could well be spot-on. First focus on those, and your difficulties with those traits, without 'dumping' the full disorder on them.

I'm new to this site, but I think the reason why so many people speak of their u(undiagnosed)HPD/NPD/whatever is because of the very fact that unless a professional makes an informed assessment, there is plenty of room for error.
Not for our difficulties with those traits, those are very real  ;D.

General Discussion / Re: How can i release my anger and rage?
« on: May 16, 2015, 04:57:47 PM »

Just a question- Does anyone know how to release their anger and rage that they have kept in for so long whilst growing up?


Im afraid to express anger as i feel ill explode and die and that ill trash the house and everything in it.

Does anyone know how to healthily express anger?

The first clue you yourself already mention is: find a time and place that's save for YOU. And anything you can come up with that fits your idea of safe is OK.

Personally, I like walks in parks or beaches, preferably (near) empty ones. There I can rage all I want, I can jump and shout and kick air all I want. Such places are also good for me, because I can literally 'voice'/vocalize my inner ramblings/arguments I have with my (perceived) abusers. It's wonderful how stress-releasing only saying things out loud is. Additional bonus: sometimes you hear saying yourself really silly things, but as well sometimes I find myself amazed at how well I can 'put to words' the feelings I have or had.
Over time I've (largely) overcome the shame if somebody does pop-up. I know I'm sane, and so I care less and less of what they might think of me 'talking out loud to/with myself'.


edited to test: I guess white is a pretty good color to make a triggering part pretty unreadable unless you highlight it
edited to test: I guess beige is a pretty good color to make a triggering part pretty unreadable unless you highlight it

Another good one is to rage in front of a big mirror (body-size). It's more confrontational, as I can really SEE my own anger, even if I cannot feel it that well. The rage tends to intensify quickly. The trigger alert is that our brain subconsciously tends to mimic (mirror) the mood another person is expressing via the body-language (fear,joy etc., thus anger too) so you are in a way setting yourself up to become increasingly angry through looking at this angry human face/body opposite you. But it's a great tool if you have difficulty allowing yourself to express the anger you feel you have inside, but somehow you keep blocking yourself to release it.

Alternatively you can shop for really cheep and ugly 'china', and smash that up when you feel like it. This way you won't destroy anything dear  ;)

Introductory Post / Introducing myself (quite long)
« on: May 14, 2015, 12:02:17 PM »
Hi all,

only yesterday I signed up at Out of the FOG.
Today I thought it could be a good this to join Out of the Storm too.

I'm not sure if I'm CPTSD or not. It's a line of inquiry for me, that I might pursue in a therapeutic setting with psychologists.

I'll copy the introduction I wrote yesterday on OOTF. I hope this is not a breach of a policy of 'spamming the boards'. It does relate though to joining OOTS, which I will elaborate on below

--- from OOTF ---
 "I'm a man from Europe of around 50.
I'm a recovering alcoholic, and currently in the process of looking for a good therapy to deal with underlying problems that (most probably) triggered my alcoholism. The booze is under control, and since a couple of months I have been visiting a psychology-centre in order to determine 'what's wrong'.

That's been quite a quest, and about a months ago I took the SCID-II test to see if I had a personality Disorder. The good news is: I have not. I did score a few 'points' on various traits of various disorders, but well below the threshold. And when I scored, they were solely in the domain of my family. Thus the psychologists determined that a PD is out of the question.
Soon I'll have another meeting with them on what path I would like to follow, what kind of follow-up, if any, is wanted.

For years now I've been looking around on the internet, primarily for self-diagnosis, but as well for family-diagnosis. I still am, and I found this site/forum only yesterday. I do think this forum could be a worthwhile addition to speaking with psychologists/therapists and my support group: my friends, many of whom I know for decades and who have been hearing my stories for that time.

My mother is a therapist, of the New-Age variety. Can't say I'm very happy with her. She's been telling me for I-don't-know-how-long that I should go into therapy, and how something always is wrong. I've long held the idea that she's the one who actually makes me 'sick', and it was only through the talks I had with the psychologists recently that I actually voiced this suspicion. Which led to me getting the SCID-II test+interview.

I come from a dysfunctional family, that much is sure to me. I once looked up the page on Wikipedia, and I could immediately tick-off half the traits mentioned. The day after, I could tick of another 25%, with just a little effort. After that I quit. I knew enough. Took quite a while still before I sought professional help though.

As it is now, I'm convinced my mother has a personality disorder, probably Hystrionic PD. Didn't know it even existed, only to find out when I read the report on me from he SCID-II, and looked up the 9 disorders that this test is about. Previously I suspected NPD. Or perhaps even Munchausen by Proxy.
My dad has possibly Asperger. At first I feared I was the one with an autistic trait. I did some online tests, that turned out negative. Then I found one that was apparently also good to test 'others', and did it 'for' my dad. I'm aware it's notoriously difficult (if not outright impossible) to diagnose others with a PD or such (Asperger/autism isn't a PD), a fact underscored by the psychologists I now see, but I think it's save to say that at least from my perspective my dad shows a trainload of characteristics from the autism spectrum.

One of my siblings shows traits of HPD as well, I think. I'm a no-good in her eyes as well, and she has said for decades now that I "don't EVER take into account ANYBODY". A few years ago I was so baffled to hear this again, for the 15th time or so in as much years (we meet twice a year, apart from family gatherings), that it send me into a downwards spiral. How could this be true? It couldn't be. Unless I was autistic, I thought. Hence my quest in that topic.

I think that pretty much sums it up. In a nutshell.
A tiny nutshell. For a big nut.

Thanks for listening, Hysperger."

--- End of OOTF ----

So I will have another session at the psychology centre in a few days, and the focus of that talk is: Now that we've established you don't have a Personality Disorder, now what?
In a sense I'm afraid to bring up I could be suffering from CPTSD. "Here I go again", I hear myself (and them) saying: "I really crave being 'sick' or 'wrong'. Why can't I simply walk out of here, happy in the knowledge there's nothing wrong with me?"

Well, first of all I feel I still have a few issues to fix. I've become an alcoholic, and even though I'm recovering, the thought I even went that far is still a scary memory. I never want to be there again. So I now have a symptom under control, but what about the causes? I'm afraid I will do some other stupid thing if I don't get a better handle on what has led me into alcoholism.
And given that substance abuse can be a sign of C-PTSD, I'm worried.
Or glad, I'm not really sure.

The basic feeling I have now, after having had addiction-counseling and the SCID-II test is: I'm still in the phase where a diagnosis needs to be established for my dysfunctional behavior. Because after I had the booze under control I was moved forward to the psychologists (with a primary diagnosis of an anxiety disorder/problem. OK with me, I was anxious and they need something in order for the insurance to cover treatment), but now it's been firmly established I do not have an Anxiety disorder, nor a PD.

Now what? The psychologists still have my best interest at heart, hence the talk I'll have soon: they too want an appropriate follow-up, now that they know I'm not at the right place (they are anxiety disorder professionals).
I strongly feel I need something, if only a healthcare professional that I can talk to now and then. I'm in a process, and that process will likely continue for a while, while I make alterations to my past behavior.
An interesting remark was made by my primary psychologist (a whole team has been wrestling with me  ;D ) after the SCID-II that there are more patients "who have (had) parents that are therapists". I do think that's a worthwhile avenue to pursue. There might even be an established therapy/treatment for 'us'.

And like I've said: I have spotted traits associated with PTSD in my behavior and (twisted) feelings, so I seriously contemplate to at least put my suspicions on that on the table. I was 'right' about not having a PD (despite the insistence of my 'therapist' mother) after all.


Thanks for reading,

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