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Just found this thread through a search for 'ego states' as I have been reading about this today. I feel like it is helping me make sense of the regular heightened states, mood swings and white hot rage I have been experiencing.

I have been feeling for a while that I keep slipping into child-like mentalities which are in turn fuelling intense dynamics with other people. This ego state schema has been enlightening and I feel like I have a new communication toolkit after reading into it more and watching a whole youtube series on it ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgkpM2-3p5Ha8jhocp_EjXlvm5CAoWnd4 ).

It has helped me see that there is a lot of the rebellious child in me. It has felt like a surprise having it surface so much this year, through angry, loud, aggressive, sulky moods and feelings. It is absolutely akin to the anger I felt during my early teens. After years of difficult home life in early childhood, I grew much more aggressive as I got bigger and started to fight back. It was an incredibly stressful and chaotic time, and that is how it feels to go back to this state of mind. Nonetheless, I am grateful to start accessing this state as I am giving a voice to lots of feelings previously repressed and shamed. I have to say, it is really hard to switch out of this mindset, and I feel like I flick between all three child states - free (let's just blow the rent and sort it out later), adaptive (I want to be a good girl and get things right) and rebellious (whatever, I don't actually care what you have to say anyway).

In my self-employed work I feel I am a nurturing parent with my clients, however when in employment I definitely find that I have strong child mindsets. With my parents I feel like I have had to be adult since I was very young, and sometimes nurturing parent - even critical parent with my mum, who I feel I am trying to help a lot of the time. My mum often acted as rebellious and free child when I was growing up. My dad was critical parent for sure, and also pretty absent so that was confusing as he'd come out of nowhere and start trying to rule the roost.

The huge change I have been feeling this year, I think, has been the switch from primarily adopting an adaptive child state when in relationships to now adopting a rebellious child state, and I think this is because I have gone from having a previous partner who was a critical parent type to seeing someone who was a nurturing parent type. With the critical parent type partner I used to step in line, and with the nurturing parent type partner I am acting out left right and centre - probably because I feel heard and forgiven.

Geez. It is making my head spin a bit 

This evening I used what I have learned in two conversations - one with my recent ex where I had to work very hard to bring myself out of rebellious child. I am really triggered by his nurturing parent vibe as I feel like I haven't had it before and it bugs me, feels like I am being robbed of my autonomy and independence. It feels needy and probing, invasive at times, to my recurring child state. But I managed to use guidelines for adult state that helped me stay present in the conversation! It was a really awesome breakthrough, and I did it on my own - just through learning the different ego states. I spoke in a measured calm way, I allowed myself to stick to facts and the conversation was calm and pleasant.

Then, secondly, with my mum - she had let me down this week and she sent me a text with a lot of stressful expressions of her own needs, which seemed like adaptive child to me. To this I was interested to observe that I responded in a mix of nurturing parenting and adult mode. I do feel for my mum, as she was abandoned a number of times as a kid, and she clearly has struggled with emotional management for years. With my parents I have to suck up my child, big time, and have had to - like - forever.

The child mindset has been doing my head in, and I would feel glad to get a grip on it. I feel like when I fully descend into childish thinking I end up feeling very unsafe, dissociating and feel re-traumatised and exhausted. When I hopefully access therapy perhaps I can explore this state more, however, for now, it does not feel helpful to the scenarios and needs of my adult life. I am going to try and read more about how to reach an adult state and start practicing this more and more.

In general, I wonder how I can help my child to express in more carefree and fun ways? I love the descriptions of the free child, although this ego state has problems with responsibility so wouldn't want to start going backwards. Maybe it is an adult need to play and feel free and chilled out, as much as it is a childish need? I will ponder on this, for sure.

[I trust the inner workings of my mind]

Hello Phoebes, ah and radical.

I have a mantra, or an affirmation: I trust the inner workings of my mind

After my first and biggest breakdown this was so hard to believe when I said it to myself, but I kept saying it to myself and now I do trust myself, my intuition and my reality.

I agree with what ah says about gaslighting. In becoming stronger with my decisions about who is around me, I feel that the good friends I have chosen to relate to at this time in my life are of sound reasoning and kind spirit. They do not feel the need to 'tell me about myself'.

I think that people who feel the need to strip you apart and feed back are:
        a) projecting onto me their need to 'fix people' (a co-dependent and, arguably, narcissistic trait)
        b) delivering an analysis of a persons personality without correct use of person centred therapeutic conversation
        c) doing so with very little concern or empathy for how it would feel to receive such an unfounded analysis
        d) behaving in an irresponsible and potentially harmful manner

The most helpful people in my life have been therapists, friend and kind strangers who have taken the time to ask me open socratic questions, starting with things like 'how', 'why', 'what' and so on... They help me open, they help me speak, they help me articulate, they listen, and as they do so I feel that I heal. I am eternally grateful for this time and care shown by people who do not project, and who show care through listening to and empathising with my reality.

I have trained professionally so that I can do this in return, as I always had this desire to help others. When untrained I was purely codependent, and getting mixed up with my need to help and their need for help, but with training I have better, healthier, boundaries. These skills actually enable us to truly help others, and I use them when speaking to the young people I work with, my colleagues and so on. I also use these open questioning techniques with family and friends - to give them the time and space to speak, feel heard and to heal in whatever way they need to.

I look for these behaviours in my new and old connections, and I limit contact with people who have a lot of opinion, a lot of gab but no listening skills. They are a huge drain on mine and many other people's time and energy. They may learn these skills at some point, but if they are not able to at this time then they may cause further damage through their projecting and piling more of their own problems with communication and relating on to you.

You have CPTSD, you struggle, and you deserve to be heard and understood, not stripped down and analysed in a way that causes you to feel distressed.

You mentioned not being sure if you give off signals during conversation, and I feel interested to hear more about this. How do you feel in your body when you relate to people that you feel have the big social personalities that you describe?

There are techniques that may help with relating to others, including grounding, breathing and even using open questions can help to relax a conversation as it takes the focus off you and onto someone else. When I am faced with an encounter with someone that I find intimidating, for whatever reason, this is how I use these tools...

Grounding

• I adjust my feet, so that they are flat n the floor, and make sure my legs are as heavy and rooted to the ground as possible. I imagine that I have deep roots growing down from my feet into the earth. I can move at my desire and I am mobile, but I feel 'earthed' or 'solid'.
• I gently engage my pelvic area. I lightly clench or tighten what I feel to be my 'core'. I am female so for me this feels like doing a Kegel exercise. This helps me feel strong, centred to myself and my body and earthed.

Breathing

• I notice if my breath is shallow or sometimes if I am holding it. I allow myself to breathe a little deeper, down to my belly, and if I am holding my breath at all I allow myself to breathe out, and back in again
• I allow my shoulders to drop and relax a little, down to my legs that are rooted
• I sometimes breathe in and out to the word "re-lax" - taking a breath in on "re-" and breathing out on the word "-lax". I do this in my head if around others but also out loud if on my own

Using open questions
I find that this can help to disarm intimidating people, and provide a safe space for myself by diverting attention on to them. It does not identify you as a target as this appears confident, and using open questions often helps people relax. I use mild versions that are not to interesting to show a basic level of interest and then make excuses and leave to find a safer space for myself as soon as possible.

• If there is an obvious line of conversation, follow it up with a related open question. For instance, they say "I just don't know why my boss keeps doing that, it really gets me annoyed" and you can say "how much longer are you working there for?".
• You can use reflective statements as well, like "oh right, yes - that sounds really interesting", or "it must have been exciting to travel to all those countries..." and then follow with an open question
• You can have a whole conversation like this where some people don't ask a single question, they just talk and project. Sometimes people ask questions back, and it can develop into a really warm conversation.

You can choose to talk to someone and you can also choose to move away. There are ways you can do both with confidence and in a grounded way that keeps you safe. I have learned to do a 'blank calm smile face' where I control my features so that I am not giving anything away and just looking pleasant, and then I disengage politely and leave the person I am not comfortable around. I feel certain that people do not notice, as I have to use it a lot at work. In my job I have to be as blank as possible, avoiding micro-expressions and allowing people to feel safe to open up. It is not my role to project my feelings. I think of this as 'containment', and I feel that when used correctly it helps to keep me and others safe.

What makes me laugh is that my best friends know me so well that if they see me do this at a party they find me afterwards and chuckle, saying "Oh no, what did they say to you?"... because they know that my blank face means I am having to use my skills to deflect someones negative or draining energy and move on! These are my good friends though, and I love and trust them, so we can giggle about these things in social settings.

I have googled and read many things that have helped me around assertiveness training - I would highly recommend looking into this, and anything else that feels helpful.

Apologies for the long reply. I hope you feel more confident as you go on and if you would like to keep talking and coming back to this post to update I would be interested to listen and hear how you are getting on.

Good luck to you!

Lots of love,
Sasha x

Hello DV,

I'm really glad you have found this forum and that it feels helpful. It has made such a difference to my life too, in that I feel like there are people experiencing a similar thing to me.

I find it interesting to hear you relate burnout to the stronger emergence of CPTSD (if I've got that right?). I have seen the TED talk you mention and it is a good one. In that same session I also watched a talk about gaslighting which was really helpful and validating.

I'm sorry that we have all had trauma, but I am glad and grateful that this resource is here.

Are there any new posts you have read that have been particularly insightful? Sometimes I'm not sure where to read or look, so would be interested to hear what has got you thinking.

All the best,
Sasha x

Hi all

An NHS CBT therapist 4 years ago referred me on to longer term service as she identified that I had disclosed child abuse and neglect in my past. I accepted this and sought the referral for long-term therapy looking at core values and boundaries that she suggested.

Whilst this referral was processing I had to move, and then once I had set up home again I started a new referral in a new location. Since then I have had to move about 7 more times and have had my referral interrupted each time.

Years on I feel like I am reaching a dead end. I have read as much as I can, but feel like I am hitting walls and really want to work with a therapist who can help with my past trauma. I don't have an official diagnosis as of yet.

In my new area I started a new referral 6 months ago and am going through the process again. I plan to stay in this area for the foreseeable and have hope, however they keep bouncing me between services that can't help me.

I have disclosed to a number of assessment services and still feel no closer to help. Recently I have been losing days and cancelling work where my symptoms of tiredness, confusion and anxiety get too high to function properly. I called the CMHT team last week on a very bad day and they even referred me to someone else, who referred me back to CMHT.

Since then I have written a letter to PALS and am also considering writing a complaint to my GP, to the CMHT and to my MP about what is going on.

I feel fed up, exhausted and that having to retell and then being rejected over and over again is really causing me to struggle, bringing about feelings of hopelessness and feeling stuck, depressed and like I am never going to get help.

I can't afford to go private, and CPTSD is having a big affect on my work, income, mood and relationships. I feel like I am regularly losing days at a time - life feels so up and down and I am not able to achieve the things I want.

Please does anyone have advice or words of encouragement in regards to accessing support for CPTSD on the NHS and any clue of how I can push this forward?

Many thanks,
Sasha

Assertiveness has been huge for me. I have viewed it as an ongoing project for over 4 years and refer to it as assertiveness training. It is a process, for sure.

My biggest tools have been the following:

- Learning by heart and stating to myself "my feelings are important too".

- Taking the time I need to check in with how I feel, and using phrases such as "hmm I'm not sure right now. Can I get back to you about that later?" And "I need a minute to think".

- Noticing that there are some people who can hear my little voice of assertiveness (I don't want to shout or have conflict to have my voice heard) and some who can't. Removing myself where possible from those who just can't hear it.

- If I am forced to W have with someone who has a big voice and can't hear my little voice, I have to get  v e r y  c l e a r  about what I am saying and make sure I check in with myself and make my voice heard.

- being prepared for a backlash as a result of asserting myself, for instance people who are not used to me having a voice being rude or minimising about my thoughts and feelings.

- having a plan of action in the face of a backlash, for instance "no, I am not being [insert insult] and it is out of line of you to call me that. These are my feelings and they still stand."

- Having resources to fall on when I struggle to hear my own voice or feel uncertain. These include journaling, listing, speaking to objective 'listeners' (blahtherapy.com is good) and certain friends who are helpful at reflecting, reading to help me understand more about my feelings, taking time, allowing uncomfortable feelings to present and trying to adjust to these (anger is very uncomfortable for me, as it was repressed for a long time when I had no control as a child, but with practice I can feel it or access it more quickly now).

I wonder - what does the assertiveness you seek look like to you? If you visualise the assertive person you want to step into being, what do they look like? How do they behave? What measures do they take? What do they say and how do they say it? 

I have developed a theory of Voice. The Voice that tells me how I feel, what I would like, what I do not like and when something feels wrong has been so trampled by others in my childhood and developing life that it has barely been there at times in adult relationships, often choosing to settle with someone with quite a Big Voice who would carry us both through.

My Voice was still there, however by matching up with a Big Voice it was continually not heard or dismissed when raised in even tiny ways. This caused me to shut it down and 'learn' to stay quiet, making me have quite a Little Voice. In some relationships it would be a bit bigger, however in my last big relationship it felt like a very small Little Voice, that grew even quoted as it felt like it wasn't heard or wanted by the Big Voice at all. For example:

Big Voice: "I think we should get some new cushions".
Little Voice: "Oh great! (Excited at opportunity for input) I think blue would go with the sofa. I could make some with my sewing machine if you want to pick some fabri together, that way we can both split the cost and it'll be cheaper?"
Big Voice: "I don't like blue. I've seen some that I like that are very expensive and of good quality. Please don't bring in anything second rate in the bracket that you can afford. I don't like anything second hand or hand made. Now I really don't want to talk about to again so I would prefer it if we no longer discuss it."
Little Voice: *shuts down*

That was a really tricky scenario for me, and it happened over and over again, with decor, holidays and any sort of making plans. He talked about wanting to marry me (what? Wow! How amazing!) however I was told not to talk about or get excited about marriage, as it was upsetting him. He said he was going to whisk me off to New York for my birthday (what? wow! So exciting!) yet I was told not to get too excited about it, and scolded for stressing him out when I tentatively asked, two weeks before my birthday, if he had looked at tickets. After giving holiday notice months before it was very hard to feel like I had no agency or knowledge, or room to get excited. It was very hard for me.

I felt powerless to assert myself with Big Voice but experienced a great deal of dissociation and frightening feelings of losing myself. He was so sure of himself, and on reflection I feel now that his experience of emotional and material privilege since childhood is what enabled him to develop an overwhelming sense of self-security. We might even call it unhealthy narcissism.

Here's how the relationship ended. Through what I see now as a fawn codependent relationship style, I had pushed myself into a corner. I realised that I had become very depressed through lack of agency and after a week staying with a friend I returned saying that to help our relationship I needed to start feeling like it was my life too, my living space too, and that I needed agency. The next day I was dying my hair and he was unhappy about me doing this in the house, even though it was already on my head. I used my Little Voice to express that I thought it wouldn't get on anything, but his Big Voice won and I ended up crying in the shower, washing out my hair, feeling very dissociated, lost and broken.

He helped me calm down a bit, but proceeded to continue to challenge me, saying that despite me getting upset we couldn't let that mean the issue goes away, and me dying my hair was an issue that needed discussing. It was here that I found my Voice. I put my foot down that he had been unreasonable and within half an hour of me standing up for myself he told me to "Get your sh*t and get out of my life, get out of my house! We are done!". So that was that.

Upended and homeless, within 24 hours of working out what to do whilst staying with a friend I worked out that I was pretty financially vulnerable but that I could also now do what I wanted. Big Voice tried to get me to go back to him after a little while, but I chose to stay away and start again. I decided to move away to a cheaper location where I could be independent. I also could feel how this had happened and the Voice theory became really clear to me. I began to learn more about my Little Voice and Essie it louder so that it started to become a Healthy Voice of awareness and assertiveness.

My Healthy Voice has had a few knocks, mainly  through allowing an ex who moved into the area to stay with me, plus overbearing neighbours. I am out of both situations, however realise that I put myself at the bottom of the pile again, making my voice small which lead to feelings of depression.

A new occurrence is that I have been dating someone with whom my voice has become very Big. My new Big Voice is frightening to me, as it comes with a lot of strong emotions, including anger, fight, self-defence and guilt for having a Big Voice at all. I find this confusing, however from what I understand it is likely to be the late development of narcissism denied during childhood. I am concerned as I think that this person I care about takes a Little Voice position, potentially due to a past that has been emotionally difficult but is unexplored, and I am trying to talk to them about this, although it is all very new to them. I feel at the moment that Little Voices are quite hard to navigate from the other side, and I am trying to find a balance. It feels very hard to get right especially while I am also trying to manage my new pair of lungs.

What are your thoughts?

Are you a Big Voice or Little Voice? Or is yours a Healthy Voice?

Have you been through all of these voices?

Does any of this makes sense to anyone else?

Really helpful to read that other people go through this. I feel so similar and am today having an absulute switched off numb day.

Today I am finding it hard to refer to the person that I have been seeing on and off as my 'partner' and feel a million miles away from any sort of intimacy. This is probably as a result of a disagreement the other day that is now over but during the conflict I felt myself emotionally leave him. Plus I went back on SSRIs 4 days ago so I guess the new meds musn't be helping my emotional regulation too much.

I'm trying to just stick it out but today I'm absolutely not feeling being in a relationship. I haven't wanted to touch or hug all day, and have been very quiet. At the start of the day I felt anxious and then as the day went on have just been mostly spaces out / dissociated.

He has been there for me so much recently and I felt very close before our argument. This switch in me is just horrible. So black and white. My trust just vanishes. I don't even want to be naked.

He is a good person and I have suggested a board for people in intimate relationships with people with CPTSD so he can find support.

I'm struggling in a new relationship with triggers, micromanaging, huge levels of inner and outer critic and now slipping into what feels like a depression.

You know the expression 'can't see the wood for the trees?'. Well right now I just can't understand why on Earth I am with someone and why I am doing this to myself.

So, to anyone with an experience or thoughts to share on this - how have you managed to when all you want to do is be alone again?

Could space with N/C be a good a temporary option, while I sort my head and work out my next decision?

Am with someone who is more supportive than any previous partner by a huge margin. He is reading with me, supporting me, doesn't "chuck me away" when I am spinning out/lashing out and going through very difficult emotions and days. He has helped me to feel safe to talk about my experiences, my triggers and my feelings. However, I keep getting intensely triggered as he is naturally a very sarcastic person.

I feel that this is not an insidious NPD type of mocking, and I feel that when we get to the heart of things, after I have triggered, he is sad and apologetic that he has upset me. I have relayed this to him and asked him where his use of language comes from in him, as sometimes I wonder if he struggles to express himself in a straight way - perhaps due to his own experiences with people who speak with twisted tongues. He has acknowledged this and expressed that he feels grateful that I have reflected this as he has felt it has gotten people upset in the past, however it's not what he wants or intends.

I believe him, but I keep getting triggered as it is not simple to stop straight away, and what makes things more complex is that my trigger is to do with FOO sarcasm, mocking and ridicule. I am aware that when I am slightly up/high/bouncy I am quite dry and witty, and when together in this place it feels like I slip with him into a sarcastic banter that I sometimes have to stop, as it can become quite scary for me. In my FOO this would just intensify to the point of real anger and violence.

So is sarcasm something to be avoided overall? I'm not sure it feels good to me at all. I'm not sure it's funny. It feels so 'one upmanship' and even when I am bouncy and partake in this, I feel a great sense of inner and outer critic flare up.

I find sarcasm and conversational jokes incredibly difficult to process when I am not bouncy, and when I am: down, 'purple' (my way of describing waking up like there is a huge traffic jam in my brain), depressed, dissociative, flighty, sensitive, hypervigilant or in anyway struggling with other symptoms (this can be quite a lot of the time, as I can hide a lot, or be quietly harbouring feelings/moods that I haven't managed to articulate).

In these states sarcasm is a massive amygdala hijacking trigger. It feels like these sorts of comments force me to do loops in my head, working out what someone means, and really becoming incredibly worried that I don't get it, and that I genuinely do not understand why they said it and if they are trying to hurt me.

As a result my inner critic berates that I am ruining the conversation, and should 'just lighten the * up!', as well as feeling that I am not worthy of clear straight conversation. I usually freeze to a degree, as I start to process, and often consider just shutting up completely. However, this usually doesn't last long as I feel comfortable enough with my partner to challenge when this happens, and my outer critic quickly engages into a panicky fight mode ("why on earth would you say that to me? You are being sarcastic! I don't understand what you mean. What did you mean?"), often accompanied by intense micromanagement. I can start to raise my voice and monologue.

I wish my brain wouldn't derail - and I would love to gain a bit more control over this trigger so that I can communicate more healthily and effectively. Right now I am struggling to stay present when this trigger appears, and feel like I am being thrown backwards in a painful and confusing way, mid conversation.

Does anyone have any suggestions, advice or a similar story?

Thanks @Kizzie. I have had some very supportive employers however have recently gone self-employed as felt it was less pressure. Ironically it is causing stress in a few ways: insecure income, constant pressure to procure work and no sick pay.

I will write in the employment forum about sick leave for self employed and see if anyone has advice or insight.

Another thing I am really struggling with is sarcasm as a trigger. Is there a good board to ask about this?

Thank you for your responses.

One thing I am struggling with is work. I am currently going in and out of quite heavy dissociation, feeling triggered a lot by my unstable housing and this has affected my ability to stick to work commitments. I am freelance so don't get sick pay.

How do people manage their symptoms when it comes to working? And do other people have to take days off?

Thank you both for your comments. Today I have been doing a lot of thinking and just writing this post helped so much. I need to stabilise my life so that I can recover.

[My childhood was somewhat rootless, due to a number of things:]

I have been wanting to post in here for some time now.

A couple of years ago a friend showed me Pete Walkers book. What an invaluable resource. Since learning about the 4F's I can identify, thus far, that I am a real mixture of the types.

My childhood was somewhat rootless, due to a number of things:
• Overcrowded childhood home a 1 bed flat in a squatted estate with 1 adult and 4 children, no space or privacy. I shared a bed with mum and brother. Regularly had my stuff trashed.
• Regularly beaten and verbally abused from a young age, including a great deal of entrapping sarcasm and constant criticism amongst all the family.
• Depressed non-coping single mother who tried a great deal, but really was very dysfunctional and threatened to have us taken away or kill us a few times, and an alcoholic father was barely there.
• Often kicked out from a young age, stayed at friends for weeks at a time.
• Me and my siblings all made to leave home aged 15/16, mother made us each phone the council over and over again to ask them to house us.
• Grew up witnessing drug use, self-harm and mental health problems in a dysfunctional community.
• It never seemed to start, get better or end.... There is more but that is the gist.

I am 29 years old and have been trying for many years to learn and grow, to be stable, specifically looking at the following areas:
• Learning how to ground
• Recognising dissociation, including busy flight mode, overeating, body numbness and brain freeze.
• Stopping trying to 'save' people and start to save myself.
• Trying to stop 'throwing myself away' as if I am a piece of trash.
• Trying to learn how to gauge whether people are good or bad.
• Recognising the vacillation between inner and outer critic.
• Recognising emotional flashbacks, and trying to manage these.
• Trying to manage my outer critic and how I micromanage in relationships.
• Trying to hear my voice, and trying to feel comfortable to express this in an appropriate way.
• Trying to manage the intense urge to isolate, run away and push everyone away.
• Recognising Abandonment Depression.

I feel really tired as it feels like drama keeps coming my way. I am trying my best to live a peaceful life, however I keep repeating the following loops that I seem to get stuck in again and again, that have and still are re-traumatizing me, piling onto my pre-existing childhood triggers:
• Having to move all the time, due to rental insecurity in London where I grew up. I can't keep with the same doctor and have been chasing long-term psychotherapy for about 4 years now. I am now living in a more rural area, and hoped for peace and a long term tenancy, however I found out yesterday that I am going to have to move again, due to a false complaint by a rather vicious neighbour.
•  I find gauging things difficult in intimate relationships and have attracted a number of narcissists, where things seem very good at first and then I realise that my voice is not being encourage or is consistently rejected, however in these situations I have usually already given up all my rights and feelings, putting theirs first and avoiding conflict at all costs, in a fawn co-dependent manner.
• Struggling with money as working full time is quite difficult for me. I hate to admit this but I get very spun out, and sometimes can't read emails or function properly, like the words don't make sense. Sometimes I can barely understand people when they are talking to me, and I get headaches and affected vision. I also struggle to articulate to employers what my problems are, as I am learning them myself and feel incredibly ashamed, also don't want to trigger people. I don't want to be a victim, or a drama queen. I tend to take large numbers of days off for 'migraines', which seems the easiest way to explain.

I have to move again. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'm trying. I just want peace and calm. I want to heal, with a garden and a dog, making bread and with loads of time to myself.

I don't know how to get there. It feels like the rug keeps being pulled from under my feet.