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I don't always hear it, I've just come to learn that when I feel wrong or panicky it's probably the inner critic talking deep inside.

Boatsetsailrose, I completely understand what you mean about the hyper vigilance when it comes to other people. I get very socially anxious as a result and automatically assume the worst in situations where there is absolutely no danger. Unfortunately I randomly panic in the middle of normal conversations with people and it must be evident that I'm uncomfortable as my face flushes and I start shaking, so then the inner critic kicks in and starts shaming me for looking so weak and weird. The classic one is, "What must the other person think of this over the top response?!" It's very socially painful. It's hard to control too and is far worse when I'm tired, stressed or hungry.

It does sound like you experience similar then, arpy1. It's incredible what our brains piece together while we sleep. Not nice to wake up from but it is a reminder that some terrible stuff must have happened to make you feel that way! I'm finding that so much of it has been repressed. The more I talk about it the more a nagging part of me feels I must be over-exaggerating but after reading up on it all I see that this must be the method I created to protect myself from it.

You're right, it is hard to work through it when half asleep! It's fine when you have time to reflect on it and work through the feelings but having an emotional flashback when getting up for work really puts a downer on your day. 

I get this a lot - very frustrating! I'm introverted so I like to think before I open my mouth, whereas other people seem to be able to flit from one conversation to the next. When I do eventually come up with something I want to say and I try to say it I'm often talked over. I think a lot of people have realised that they have to interrupt in order to get their point across when speaking with strong personalities, but that's just not the way I work.

Would be nice to have a polite system of conversation where you go round in a circle and everyone gets a turn. I fear this might be a bit unrealistic though.  Good for you for working it out fairyslipper. 

I had a dream yesterday morning where my dad was holding some kind of tool (think it was a socket wrench or something). He had a strange expression on his face and I thought, "I haven't done anything to provoke him...he wouldn't really throw that at me, would he?" but he threw it at my head and I ran as far away from him as I could. I had a complete breakdown in the dream and ended up crying my heart out hysterically to anyone who would listen, though the only one I could really remember was an old work colleague. When I woke up I felt sick to my stomach and my chest hurt, as though I really had been heaving sobs.

I think it was my former self in the dream (my inner child?) rather than me as an adult. I felt overwhelmingly sad because the child was terrified and the one person who should have been there to protect her instead physically attacked her. I think this might be my sub-conscious coming to terms with what did happen and seeing it for what it really is. The good thing is that I feel so much compassion to myself now for what I did go through. It's just hard to fathom how a parent could treat their child the way he did. 

This is interesting because I think you're right, the roles can and do overlap. I think I was conditioned to be The Scapegoat and my reaction as I grew up was to take on traits of The Low Maintenance Child in order to cope with the constant shouting and criticism. I think my survival mechanism, even into adulthood, has been to make myself as low profile as possible to avoid unwanted criticism. Unfortunately it meant that I let my father treat me as a doormat for what I felt for a long time was an easier life, though I see now that this was not fair on myself and was damaging in the long run. I'm very quiet as a result and tend to be reluctant to assert myself in situations as growing up assertiveness was punished and therefore dangerous. Parents really can screw you up, can't they?

http://www.boredpanda.com/burning-man-festival-adults-babies-love-aleksandr-milov-ukraine/

To me this shows how the inner child emerges when you grieve for your lost childhood. I really like it and find it very poignant. What do you think?

Blues cruise
Thank u for sharing
Since yesterday I can't believe how much identifications am getting on our forum - so grateful
I have been on and off citalopram for some yrs now- I came off it slowly last year and couldn't cope with the terror feelings and went back on them-
I am now reducing again v slowly . I too am on citalopram and have reduced by 5mg for now -
I really understand what u are saying and I feel the same - they are numbing and I don't truly feel I can make movement on them . But I also know that it not the whole truth I just did 3 mths with a child trauma specialist and got so much from doing the work with her -
I do believe support is a big one for us and the right support ...
For me once I identified with cptsd after yrs of calling it depression / anxiety / being messed up I found I could articulate my experiences better ..
I self referred to a psychology service in Bristol UK and I had assessment and was assigned her . She was fantastic !
I also belong to 12 step programmes and get a lot of support
Being here helps me a lot and the literature
For me as u describe also re toxic shame it's the psychological I have been able to deal with more through therapy how my brain thinks and abuses
Also my beliefs my relationship with me and with the world
So the areas she worked with in a trauma context are
Emotional regulation
Relational work
CBt

Yes like u I was at a stage I needed the real deal - I'd had lots of psychotherapy and other stuff with some healing but not the whole answer
She worked with me adult to adult not so much looking back in a psychotherapy way
But then I had done a lot of that work so maybe in hindsight - regression and all of that was more healing than I think and brought me to this place

I am hopeful I can be off anti dep and I feel I will be -
Toxic Shame is a real area for me to work with I always feel I'm not good enough it is crucifying
What areas have u learnt about ? I'd be interested to hear
The inner / outer critic as p walker talks about ( I am just approaching his book now I was too scared b 4
I want to be free of psych drugs to feel - I don't like the dampened down effect although I guess that is the point ! Also my concentration and memory are effected that scares me and feeds into the I'm not good enough esp at work
I feel sedated on them -
I wish u all best wishes
Get what u need in a considered way and together we build ourselves back up
Ps I went nc from my mother 7 yrs ago - best decision I ever made

I think when I was on anti-depressants it was very easy for me to continue to suppress and therefore hide from the feelings deep inside relating to trauma. The triggering point where I knew I had to get answers was when I had a job interview recently. I felt terrible shame for being so nervous and visibly shaking throughout the whole thing, then got home and had what I believe was my first panic attack. I then cried for the first proper time in front of my husband. After having a cry and speaking to my husband about how helpless I felt I realised that everything I felt fearful of came back to my dad's treatment of me. I then properly looked into sociopathic narcissism and stumbled upon CPTSD, which I found I completely related to. So I know exactly what you mean about identifying more once you know what you're dealing with. Anxiety is the primary emotion I feel a lot of the time but it has always felt like there's so much more to it. It is such a relief to finally work out what it was that caused all this.

I know what you mean about concentration and memory. When I was taking citalopram my memory became dreadful and my mind wandered constantly. My memory's not great at the best of times but I think it has improved to how it was before.

The main area I have been focusing on is the inner/outer critic and how to listen to it. I didn't realise how damning the voice was until I made a point of listening out for it! I've also been focusing on the inner child, though it still feels like I'm only skimming the surface of how to nurture her. It does seem though that just taking time to recall the bad experiences and tell myself that I wasn't at fault is helping me. I'm also making a point of grieving for what happened rather than putting on a strong front or shaming myself for not being as happy and bubbly as everyone else. It does feel so much less stressful to just 'be' rather than fight how I'm feeling. I'm just trying to learn who I am really and be kinder to myself. I've now finished Pete Walker's book but it is something I think I will refer back to a lot. You can tell that he has genuinely experienced CPTSD and knows how to help.

Your child trauma specialist sounds fantastic, it's great you were referred to someone so helpful. I think I still need to work on reducing my shame enough to ask for help. The idea of opening up to someone terrifies me too. It is remarkable how much progress I feel I'm making just by identifying with other people though, so maybe my courage will come in time. I had no idea that self referral is funded by the NHS so I will definitely look into that. I do feel that I want to steer the direction I go in rather than simply seeing my GP.

Best wishes to you too and well done on the no contact. My dad is the one who isn't speaking to me so I don't know what I'm going to do when he eventually does resurface. He has shown with his silence that I don't matter to him though and pretty much caused me to question everything that ever happened in the past, so I think unwittingly he's steered me in the right direction.

I agree that the overflow of emotion is necessary to progress.  However, life goes on and one needs to get out of bed and function because the progress, no matter how much you try, takes time.  I have two thoughts about how to manage this.

One is to decide that right now is not the time to deal with everything and it's better for your life to suppress things. Let's say you started a new job or have small children or have no other support, for example.  It's ok to delay dealing with things in a more permanent way. Medication is a temporary coping strategy. 

Another thought is that you can take a different medication or dose so that you get a bit of relief from symptoms without completely blunting your emotions and thinking process.  You can also try a very strict exercise and diet regimen or any nonmedication things that can be that substitute for medication. 

Either way it takes a long time and the process and strategy may change over the years. 

I have a prescription for celexa but it makes me sleep a lot so I haven't been taking it.  I started taking ginko biloba and that seems to help but I could be wrong.  Occasionally I take a tiny dose of ritalin and a bit of coffee, which keeps me moving and when I function well and feel good about myself I have less depression.  The anxiety is always there frankly.  I don't really try to fix it, I just try to ignore it.  I know what it is and I know where it has come from.  I had 5 years of analysis and years of other therapy.   

That does make a lot of sense. It has been such a stressful time recently and I have had less opportunity for exercise, which I find does truly make me feel better. I could probably have benefitted from a little help before starting my new job. I'm considering asking for beta blockers just to tone down the intensity of panic if I know that something is going to trigger me.

The anxiety is always there with me too, I've started to accept it and tell myself that it is a feeling rather than an actual indication of danger. I think the worst thing is to fight it or berate myself for it. Now I'm starting to understand what's at my core I'm beginning to go a bit easier on myself for not always coping 100%.

I don't have a therapist, I'm just reading self-help books at the moment. I've read 'CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving' which was an amazing comfort and now reading John Bradshaw's 'Healing the Shame That Binds You'. I think toxic shame is a massive by-product of what I went through and continues to hinder me. I have looked into therapy but it's so expensive. I possibly could persevere with getting help on the NHS but it really leaves you at the mercy of people getting you the correct referrals and I'm not trusting at all. The last thing I would want is to end up with a counsellor who doesn't understand CPTSD and end up being made to feel like I'm the problem rather than my dad. I really don't think I could stomach it!

I do feel better for not speaking to him, I think once you're out of the emotionally unsafe zone there is room to breathe and reflect. I'm only now seeing how horrific he made my childhood and I can't believe I've accepted it all this time. I'll have low contact with him if he does come crawling back to me but I'm certainly not going to go looking for shame and abuse from him. Contact with him absolutely feels unsafe, he makes me feel like a child that's done something wrong constantly.

I am having moments of clarity which I never had when I was using anti-depressants. They did feel like a buffer against really bad feelings but I always felt they were still there. It is just a particularly tough time at the moment and there has been a lot of change.

Thanks KayFly, it really does help knowing someone understands and to talk it through!  arpy1, it does sound like a lot to deal with on your own so I can see how anti-depressants can help. 

I was on Citalopram for years (think in America you might call it Celexa) but I started to gain a lot of weight and got fed up with the lack of sex drive. I felt strong enough two or three months ago to try going it alone so came off it. I was primarily taking it for anxiety and it did help take the edge off, though I think I felt so ok on it that I didn't feel inclined to do any deeper soul searching into why I had problems in the first place. Now I'm not on it it feels like all the suppressed emotions are rising to the surface and it feels completely overwhelming. I seem to be in a constant emotional flashback triggered by so many things and now I'm just miserable. I wonder whether I have to feel these things in order to progress though. Surely when I was on anti-depressants I was just suppressing emotions that needed addressing? How do you address these feelings when on anti-depressants when they're not so prevalent?

I currently have a sociopathic narcissistic father who's been giving me a no contact guilt trip for the past couple of months which I think has loaded more stress on me than ever before, but on anti-depressants I probably would have just given into him because I wouldn't have cared so much. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon. Complex PTSD only came on to my radar about 4 or 5 weeks ago so it's still something really new that I'm trying to come to terms with. I do feel dreadful most of the time though. In your experience can you still effectively work on overcoming CPTSD whilst on anti-depressants?

It was so lovely to read that, KayFly. It goes to show how much you can achieve when you persevere!  Continuing to learn German is a very positive thing also and I think it helps to focus your brain on something like that.

Aww thanks KayFly  I'm glad to be here! I never thought I'd find somewhere so full of people that know what it's like. It does help to know that these mortifying moments don't just happen to you, isn't it?  You're right, it is so hard trying to change your reaction to situations that seem negative but I think it's brave to take up the challenge too. My inner critic has actually been giving me a beating over this one since my last post but looking on the bright side I have at least recognised that the shame is toxic and unwarranted, so although it's my first reaction in such a situation I'm not validating the critic by agreeing with it.

Thanks KayFly and Dutch Uncle, it does feel like progress. I think now I have developed more understanding about CPTSD it's easier to see why I act this way in such situations and I'm less harsh on myself. I really don't want my inner critic to dominate my life anymore, hopefully as times goes on I'll continue to see how much easier it is to just see the funny side of situations! After all, it's not like being mean to myself is going to erase the past and it doesn't serve any logical purpose.

This is kind of odd. I was doing some shopping and wanted to go to the fish counter but saw the husband of a colleague there who I strongly suspect is a narcissist, so I wasn't going to go over there for fear of being triggered into panic. However, he was looking around and I thought his wife might be around somewhere too, so I thought it would be rude to just walk past. So I kind of panicked myself into going to the fish counter anyway and said "hi". He then didn't recognise me (cue inner critic berating me for being boring and forgettable) but then when I said who I was we had a conversation which I didn't really want to have (escape! must escape!) about my new job, while I got more and more panicked and flustered to the point that I felt like I was hyperventilating and could only give short answers! After what felt like hours (2 minutes realistically!) he left and I wandered around the store feeling stupid, because clearly he had seen me having a panic and I hadn't been charismatic enough and he was then going to go home and laugh about me to his wife and blah blah blah...inner critic nonsense...

On the drive home though I thought, actually, I WON'T direct the blame of my shame to myself. Instead I've placed the blame straight to where it belongs: my sociopathic, narcissistic father. I panic in social situations because of the inner beliefs he ingrained into me by abusing me throughout my childhood and adolescence. The more I thought about it the angrier I got; how dare he still continue to have such a detrimental effect on my adult life? When I got home I punched a bag of toilet roll repeatedly and let all of my anger go. It felt really good to get angry...I was never allowed to show anger as a child. I think the shame and anxiety I feel in these situations often overrides the anger, so it was good to get the anger out because I feel it's been very much locked inside for a long time. I don't think approaching a narcissist of my own free will and prompting a panic response was the most sensible thing to do given my situation (thanks panic) , however  although I do feel foolish about how I might have looked I'm not going to kick myself about it. Chances are I won't ever see this man again so it really doesn't matter anyway, plus internally all experiences I have get blown out of proportion in my head and it probably wasn't as bad as I thought it was. My instant reaction in the past has been to run straight home and hide from the shame with a bottle of wine, so I'm feeling quite proud of being kind and reassuring to myself instead. It's crazy how it takes so much work just to be nice to myself! 

This is a wonderful thread. 

1. I love 80s sci-fi movies, the cheesier the better.
2. I have green fingers and know a few things about plants.
3. I am hard working.
4. I am kind
5. I look after my pets very well

Today I tried the verbal ventilation that Pete Walker suggests in his book. I wandered around the house at lunch time just talking about everything that was on my mind and reasoning through it out loud. I felt like a bit of a nutter but I think it actually did me a lot of good. Writing is good too but actually hearing my own voice reassure myself seemed to give me a lot of satisfaction.

I've been doing so much thinking about the past just lately and it's getting to the point where I feel sick of it. I don't want to hide my feelings the way I used to but it's all so intense...how are you supposed to go to work and appreciate the normal aspects of life when you're triggered constantly?! I hope it gets better. Today I did have a situation where something which would normally have triggered me into a panic response went really smoothly. It sounds so minor but I had a conversation with one of the managers at work and maintained eye contact. I managed to reassure my inner child throughout the whole thing too and we did great. Then he came back through about something else and I was back to being flushed. You win some you lose some I suppose! It just goes to show that improvements can happen though and that maybe I am on the right tracks.

I still haven't heard from my PD dad. I haven't actually phoned him for years but every 4 weeks or I usually get a phone call from him when he thinks of something he needs from me. I'm not counting properly but it must be about 5/6 weeks since we spoke. I was feeling guilty about not ringing him but I read an article last night about how sociopathic narcissists use the silent treatment as a form of punishment and that they don't feel remorse in the same way that people are usually wired to. It's put things into perspective. I desperately want to reach out because it is human nature to have connections and nurture them, whereas the PD father gains his energy and power from punishing through silence. He's punishing me just for saying no to looking after his dog while he was on holiday, even though I genuinely wasn't able to! It's all incredibly sick and twisted really.

I've been recalling memories of how bad it actually was to live alone with him when I was in my mid teens. I'm not surprised I've developed the anxiety and shame that I have as an adult. Memories are coming back to me like not having a door which would shut properly to the bathroom and him not bothering to repair the kitchen taps, so to wash up (which was always left up to me) I would have to go upstairs with the bowl and fill it up there, then bring it down again. I would say this would be acceptable short term if works were actively on-going, but something would break and he would just go stay with his girlfriend where everything worked rather than repairing anything. This went on for years. He used his health as an excuse. He was ill so people bought it and he got away with it. If you really cared for your child though then wouldn't you pay for repair work rather than taking yourself off to Australia on holiday and buying yourself brand new cars? Funny (or not) how I had to make do without a shower, flushing toilet or door which would close on the main bathroom while he had full use of a functioning en-suite bathroom. What a selfish *. He made me feel ashamed for not doing more round the house but I did as much as I could while studying hard, I really had nothing more to give. At the time I knew the way he belittled me was not fair but unfortunately it has stuck and I worry a lot about what people think of me and my actions. I think it's because I had to keep pre-empting what would trigger him into shaming me. When you're in defensive mode for so long it's hard to snap out of. 

It didn't so much bother me at the time because I was just elated to escape, but as soon as I moved out he moved his girlfriend in and did the entire house up to pretty much showroom standards so that everything was functional for her. I'm talking power showers and over the top mirrors where the lights come on when you clap your hands. Their relationship is weird though. She doesn't love him, she stays with him because she has nowhere else to go following her divorce and she gets masses of free holidays out of him. He has her around because she cooks and cleans for him. It is a messed up relationship, so the house improvements just hide the shallowness really.

It's actually been ok with him for the past couple of years while I have stayed on side. I suppose you could say that I was the golden child for quite a while. I've always known that as soon as I say no to him then that will be it though. How awful that a father/adult child relationship is based on one doing constant favours to appease the behaviour of the other, rather than mutual love and respect. I could have bent myself backwards trying to continue to please him for an easier life but why should I? I am so sick of my own needs going unanswered for his sake. What makes him so special that everyone should drop everything they're doing and rush around for his every whim? Why should I adapt my behaviour to what I think will please him? What do I actually get from it other than feelings of shame and self-hate? No-one wants to be a doormat, it's humiliating.

Right, I think I've well and truly vented for now. I'm so glad to be an adult!