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I keep returning to and re reading this poem.
I've never heard anyone else describe this and it really rings true for me.
That feeling of being surrounded by young, growing life, the day to day stuff...but taking comfort in the thought of my not being here anymore, and that possibility IS a comfort somehow...but not one I'm often comfortable admitting.
For me it's definitely been a way to self soothe...all my life actually...
It's a beautiful honest poem, thanks for sharing it.

Yes, I know what you mean...it is easier to understand the behaviour when you see what's underneath it.
I think my Mother had bpd, undiagnosed obviously, though she often told everyone how depressed and anxious she was, she never sought treatment or therapy and she certainly never took any responsibility for her own behaviour, however bad that was.
She would happily tell people about her 'nervous breakdown', and if she did allude to her behaviour being off because of it, she always blamed the menopause for this. (It must've been a seventy year menopause!)
My Dad I think was quietly narcissistic in his way, because he had this attitude of being better than other people, even though there was no basis for it. He would often talk about 'the art of one upmanship'...which was ridiculous to me even as a kid. Looking back he had very poor social skills...absolutely no idea really.
While he was ok to me, because I was his sort of little friend/mascot, I entertained him ...he was awful to my older siblings, especially my sister. He would never ever intervene or even admit that our mother's behaviour was wrong though. Both my parents had sad, abusive, abandoning childhoods themselves.
In particular my Mothers neglect left me really vulnerable to all types of abuse from other people inside the family and out.
When I write stuff, there's always this thing....I tend to forget what I wrote and become repetitive...and it's embarrassing.
But stuff does get repetitive...I once spent time writing a kind of biography (sorta therapeutic)...and even I got fed up, with it....I could've just said 'more of the same'...either that or I could've invented some nicer more interesting stuff!
It's so nice to be able to talk about stuff though, and read other peoples experiences.
I'm really grateful for that.

Thanks so much for reading everyone.
It's an odd feeling putting some creative writing on here, because I've only ever shown a couple of my poems to one person before, and that took a lot of working up to.
It's funny, because when I started looking at my life (not till my late thirties) I did do some writing ....kind of like the story of my life...
But it never feels like it's me somehow, it' feels like an anthology of stories about someone else's life...
But when I wrote things in poems ...it feels different...it made me feel actual feelings...I started to feel grief, which was a major breakthrough for me.

Agree whole heartedly.  I have always loved Maya Angelou writings but it seems that only in the last few years that I have actually comprehended her words and allowed them to affect me.  It has been 2 years since Maya passed away but she is still so ever present because of her meaningful writings.

She said,
"Most people don't grow up. It's too damn difficult. What happens is most people get older. That's the truth of it. They honor their credit cards, they find parking spaces, they marry, they have the nerve to have children, but they don't grow up."

I realized along the way that I had disassociated to the point that I did not allow myself to feel anything in order to deal with problems and crisis, seem like a rock over the years.  I appeared resilient and used laughter to suppress any other feelings.  Always told people that if I didn't laugh, I would go crazy.  Well, it got to a point that even the laughter was not enough.  As a result of my lack of real growth as an individual, the suppression of feelings and putting the burden on myself to  take the responsibility and blame for everything, I finally broke.  I understand Maya now like I never had before and with the help of several friends and Maya's writings, I am finally growing up, changing and getting stronger one day at a time.   I see my family with a completely different perspective and while I would not say that I will ever forgive them, I also no longer blame them.  They are products of their environments and have never come to the realization that they actually have never grown up and stopped learning somewhere along the way.   I have always enjoyed learning but I had neglected the one area that I needed to the learn the most, the one about myself!

Thank you DU, as you are one of those several friends that have helped me to learn, grow, and build the solid foundation that I have never had.  I realize the past will always be there but I need to take the best parts of it, how it has made me who I am today, and make the most of the present and future.  I know I will make mistakes and setbacks along the way but hopefully I will have the courage to not allow them to defeat me.

Lol,
MaryAnn 

HI DU,

Thank you for the story.... I wish I had been a fly on the wall for that meeting and the phone call.  Laughter is medicine.  Just from knowing your sense of humor, I can picture this all playing out in my head and it made me laugh out loud, no triggers in this one for me.  It brightened my day!

Lol,
MaryAnn

Hi Sienna,

You are on the right track as far as how you are working through the disassociation.  Doing better than I am managing it.   I have major anxiety and issues with disassociation.   I am unemployed right now so work is no longer a source of anxiety but looking for a job has become one and after a couple of months of frustration, I am spacing out and drink to numb myself.  I try not to use the drinking.  I went 3 days with out a drink.  But Mother's Day set me back after spending a day with my in-laws, husband, and then my own FOO.  I played games on my phone to disassociate at my in-laws and played with my 1 yr old nephew at my FOO in order to tune everything out.  Crashed on Monday, the anxiety was killing me so I started drinking again.  I also listen to music and write in my journal to work through it. 

I am also taking classes at the community college and volunteering at a local animal shelter to keep my mind focused and to meet new people as well as to learn new things.  Working with the animals helps a lot because I do not fear that I am being judged or that they don't like me.  Their love is unconditional.  In class, there is not any real time to talk to anyone personally.  I am able to help others with the computer lab work and feel like I have done something nice and to help them understand.  It wouldn't seem like much to many people but for me it relieves the anxiety for at least a while until I get home and with my "glass is 1/2 empty" husband's negativity and tearing me down.

Any other suggestions that you or Alice87 may have to try to work through disassociation and anxiety around other people would be really appreciated.

Hang in there and stay strong,

MaryAnn 

HI Dutch Uncle,

I ran across this post this evening.  I unfortunately have plenty of experience with this trauma type.   Over the last couple of years it has become how I define myself since I am severely lacking in any sense of self.   I associate myself most with Pete Walker's definition of a Fawn / Freeze type, the scapegoat.   Fawn is really not "play dead", Freeze really fits that description more.  Freeze is how I developed my ability to completely disassociate and numb out basically.  It is the type I used to survive my narcissistic father.  There was never going to be anything I could do to please or serve him so that he would treat me better.  I would sit in front of the TV for hours on a Saturday after chores and just vegetate.  Or I would go to my room with my dog and close the door, listen to my records or the radio to drown everything out.  I would read books from start to finish in less than a day.  Many times, I would read more than one in a day.   

My Fawn type developed as a result of dealing with my mother who was a covert narcissist.  I became a parentified child.  I figured out by about age 7 or 8 that I could somewhat avoid a beating or being yelled at by pleasing her, listening to her and being her confidant, and giving her advice, doing anything she asked.  It is how, as I got older, I was able to get her sympathy's so that I could escape the house as much as possible to avoid my father's abuse.  There were times that I had to endure her temper and her physical abuse or lack of concern when I was hurt or sick.  But, it was never as bad as the abuse from my father. 

I was also made fun of, shamed, told how bad I was from, well, from before I can even really remember.  So, I have a shame based identity which is common with the Fawn, Codependent type.  Meaning, as a child, my only sense of self developed as internalized shame.  I am bad, I am worthless, I have to earn others kindness by serving them and doing anything and everything that anyone else needs.   That it is selfish for me to have any needs or wants, I should be grateful that I get anything at all.  Still working to overcome this one.  It is not as easy as many would think.  You can't just tell yourself it is all not true and that you are good, have worth, are valuable,..... The brain is well conditioned to believe something else and it is very difficult to retrain it to think any other way.   

The Codependency and lack of sense of self that I developed carried with me in my relationships, friendships, and work environments.  I was a doormat and didn't even realize it.  I was just doing what I had always done.  Working to make everyone else happy.  I was the fair minded, peacekeeper that would do anything for anyone to prevent any drama, any problems, and make sure everyone still got along.  I had no boundaries (I am working on that too) and everything was my fault, I had to work to make whatever was wrong, right.   Life was like this until I completely burnt myself out a little over 2 years ago.  They finally broke me.  The anxiety, panic attacks, depression, ideations, fear brought back the freeze state that I remember all to well.  I have always cut myself off in terms of letting other people really know me, sharing anything about me, and was able disassociate from any emotions to help others deal with difficult situations.  But extreme disassociation has returned and I isolate more and avoid even leaving the house now that I am not working. 

NC is definitely an appropriate Fawn-response, sometimes it is the only way to protect yourself from more harm.
I really do not know anything about Ross Rosenberg's method so can't really comment on that one.
Medium Chill and Gray Rock are not forms of Fawn.  They are techniques that can be used by any of the trauma types to manage engagement with narcissists, sociopaths, or psychopaths.  I do use the Medium Chill technique with my father and my husband in order to diffuse situations.  It works well in the moment.  However, once I leave or am alone, my mind can't keep the emotions in check and I end up blaming myself and feeling like I have done something wrong. 

Hope my experience helps to explain the Fawn response in more detail.  I have found that correcting the fawn behaviors associated with codependency are much easier than correcting the lack of self and the shame and emotions associated with not doing the things for others that you feel guilty about not doing anymore.  If that makes sense....

Lol, Mary Ann

Hi Woodsgnome,

You have expressed what real creativity and art truly represent.  Creativity and art come not either from genius or pain, angst, and sorrow.  Someone can be a very technically good musician or artist but it may not necessarily be creative. The art itself may be very good but that does not mean it is creative or expresses itself in a unique way that inspires anyone, even the one making the art.  Many artists simply copy or imitate the craft of another musician, painter, author, etc... 

Creativity comes from honesty, experiences that touch one's soul and impacts who they are or changes who they are.  There are many musicians that write beautiful lyrics and music, are very creative, but are not really that good at the art of singing or playing the instruments.  But because they are passionate about their craft and are dedicated to it, they have been successful regardless of how could they are at the mechanics of the art itself.  Why?  Because it is genuine and honest and touches many because they can relate to it.  Same with painters, authors, comedians, any art form.   No, creativity comes from joy, happiness, anger, jealousy, feeling bad, feeling sad, tragedy, loss, even melancholy and content.  Creativity comes from the full range of emotions and beliefs that a person can have. 

Woodsgnome is right, creativity can come from anywhere and it does not have to be "great" in technical terms.  Creativity comes from within all of us.  It is our honest expression of what we think, feel, and understand.  For many, it is the best way to be honest in their expression.  It can be hard for many to express themselves honestly verbally.  It comes much easier in the form of writing, making a craft, painting, or writing music.  It doesn't matter how good others think it is or isn't.  All that matters is that we understand what it means to us and that it inspires us whether that is to do or not do something, change how we think, or how we treat others.  If, in the meantime, others see it or read it and it inspires them as well, well that is just a bonus!

Lol, MaryAnn

Hi Dutch Uncle,

You are definitely not going or are bananas.  From my own experience there are actually more dysfunctional, bonkers family's than there are healthy ones.  But my experience is limited to my FOO and my husbands FOO so there might be plenty of healthy families out there, I have just never met or experienced one.  My husbands FOO is bonkers due to a generational cycle of abuse but it is a result of, hate to say this, some inbreeding a couple of generations ago and sexual abuse of children. 

It is Easter Sunday and I am working on my second cup of coffee with Irish Cream to numb myself for the days events.  Going to both sides today.  My obligatory LC for the year.  I will be drinking wine later in order to cope.   Why can't we just accept that these people do not accept us for us and stop worrying or allowing anything they do upset us?  You have at least learned to say "No" I am not going.  I haven't even been brave enough to take that step yet.  I keep telling myself it is easier to go and get it over with rather than deal with the backlash of not going at all.  But easier for who?  I think it is easier for them because they know that I somehow still feel a responsibility to family regardless of how awful they treat me.  But, it is not easier on me.  Depending on what is said and how I am triggered, it can take days or weeks to get myself back on track again. 

So, Dutch, you are not bananas, not bonkers.  You are seeing it all in the right perspective unfortunately.  They play games, the manipulate, they are devious all in the name of making themselves somehow feel better about who they are.  They are not really worried about you, us.  I have a mother in law that is undiagnosed PS and she pits her 2 sons against each other,  I have a grandma who is PS and she works to pit her 3 siblings against one another.  A father that is an uNPD, a brother that has become his spitting image, a codependent mother.  And that is just the tip of the iceberg.  Many people would say that it is not possible to have all of that, that it has to be you, not them.  So in a way, I guess they are right.  It is us because we do not think like our family.  We can't change how they think.  We can only change ourselves.  And I think you would agree, there is no way that I am going to change who I am and what I believe so that I can be accepted by my FOO, because they are full of hate, fear, and contempt.  I have to accept that I need to find a new family of friends, like this forum, who think much the same as I do and want, need acceptance, kindness, support, and love.

Hang in there DU, you are doing okay and do not let the phone calls, the texts, the intentional games devised to make you feel guilt or to look bad to others in your family.  Screw them.  They are the ones that are miserable in all reality.  What a small life they lead.  We can see the big picture and have so much more to offer and deserve to be free and happy.

Lol, Mary Ann 

Hi Woodsgnome,

I am sorry as well.  It happens from time to time on the site even though Kizzie and the rest of the team really try their best to monitor what is going back and forth.  I understand where you are coming from as I struggle with posting out of fear of the same thing.   Please know that you really do help many of us on this site.  I am never triggered by anything you write.  I look for your words of wisdom intentionally because reading them helps to calm me and put things back in to perspective.  So, reading this upset me because you always write such beautiful, kind, and meaningful words to express yourself and to also be helpful to others and mindful of not triggering them.  I will miss reading your posts since they will be less frequent but I understand.  And, same for me, PM anytime....

Lol, MaryAnn

One must learn to love.— This is what happens to us in music: first one has to learn to hear a figure and melody at all, to detect and distinguish it, to isolate it and delimit it as a separate life; then it requires some exertion and good will to tolerate it in spite of its strangeness, to be patient with its appearance and expression, and kindhearted about its oddity:—finally there comes a moment when we are used to it, when we wait for it, when we sense that we should miss it if it were missing: and now it continues to compel and enchant us relentlessly until we have become its humble and enraptured lovers who desire nothing better from the world than it and only it.— But that is what happens to us not only in music: that is how we have learned to love all things that we now love. In the end we are always rewarded for our good will, our patience, fairmindedness, and gentleness with what is strange; gradually, it sheds its veil and turns out to be a new and indescribable beauty:—that is its thanks for our hospitality. Even those who love themselves will have learned it in this way: for there is no other way. Love, too, has to be learned.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Lol, MaryAnn 

Me too.   I was just thinking about Mister Rogers the other day.  My 5 year old self misses him very much.  I watched him and Captain Kangaroo every morning.  But, Mr. Rogers message unfortunately was contradicted on a daily basis growing up.  I didn't feel worthy of Mr. Rogers kindness and was made to feel like I was too bad to live in his neighborhood.  When I watch him now he always makes me cry.

Lol, MaryAnn

Indigo,

My heart goes out to you!  Please do not give up hope.   I have felt the same way and can completely relate.  It is okay and will be okay.  Remember, you are not alone.  We walk with you and are here to support each other.   The hypervigilance is exhausting and therapy is hard.  Much harder than I ever imagined.  Change is difficult, especially when it is you that you are working to change.

I never cried either but I am able to accept know that it is okay to cry and let the tears fall.   You are strong and resilient.  You are valuable, you are worthy, and have nothing to blame yourself for.  You are as much a victim of abuse as the rest of us hear.  We didn't bring it on ourselves but unfortunately we are the ones that have figure out how to work through it so that we can actually live life.  I still feel alone and it is painful.  Hang in there, it gets better!  I promise! And, remember, we are here and anytime you are feeling low, please reach out to us for support!  You are safe here.

Lol, MaryAnn 

Hi Luminosity Rising,

Your story may be brief as far as the number of words, but your story is far from a brief one as a whole.  You have been through so much and you are still so young.  It is nice to hear that you have a supportive partner that will be with you thru recovery.  I can relate to your statement,

The nightmares, triggers, depression, spotty memory and social anxiety hold me back the most.

These are what hold me back as well, except instead of spotty memory it is not being able to concentrate and focus.

I have gotten to a point, however, where I can notice the changes I am making even if the next day I have a break down.

I also was hospitalized for an attempt in the summer and spent another six weeks in intensive OP treatment.  I didn't believe my counselor at first when he said that I was getting better and was different than I was 7 / 8 months ago.  But, I notice the changes now.  It still feels like a yoyo many days but I have better control over my emotions and can ground myself better and not get as anxious or become as hypervigilant. 

The Pete Walker book is excellent.  I have read it all the way thru and reference many sections to stay grounded.  I wish you the best in your journey of recovery and healing and know that you will find your true self and find happiness.    You are strong and resilient.  And, there is nothing that is mutual about sexual abuse and you were a victim.  It was never your fault. 

Lol, MaryAnn 

Other than leaving the house to get a 15 minute hair cut this week, I have not left the house since I became unemployed on Monday.  Been alone in the house with my cat for almost 4 days.   Today, I went out, volunteered at the animal shelter for 3 hours at the kitty house and socialized with people.  And, it was nice.  I meet a new volunteer, saw a couple I had not seen in a month or so, and all of the kitty's that have been there for a while still remembered me and were happy to see me.  I was relaxed, not nervous or standoffish.  Doesn't seem like much but it was a big day for me. 

Mary Ann