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Messages - keepfighting

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Thank you all for your kind and warm responses. Your answers and your hugs are such a powerful antidote to all the venom she spewed at me yesterday. It feels so good to know you have my back.  :hug:

Yesterday, we were at the home of one of h's best friends (they go way back, were each others best men at our respective weddings etc). It was a flying visit (we had to return something and stayed only for a coffee).

I suspect the wife of having a PD, but I can't be bothered to think too much on which it might be (she's controlling, jealous in the extreme and very very passive aggressive).

Yesterday, h's friend was sent away with one of the children by his wife; so we ended up sitting just the three of us chatting over a cup of coffee. I tried to stay Medium Chill, at least in front of her, but her onslaught towards me was more vicious than usual. On our way home, h stopped at a nice coffee place because he felt I needed a warm and delicious treat after all that agression...

Among other things, she told me that my children would be at a disadvantage because of me (I am a stay-at-home mom by choice) - careerwise that would weigh against my children because they could not possibly be "well rounded" enough to qualify for a good education. She went on to say that since I haven't found a part time job yet (...I haven't been looking for one but that's beside the point) I should go back to the destructive cult I grew up in and which h and I left about a decade ago (as h's friend's wife, she's fully aware of the struggle we had to get out and get a life together for us and our family so that was an incredibly mean thing to suggest).

I think I stayed MC in front of her enough so she doesn't know which of her 'arrows' hit home, but I was haunted by nightmares last night. Most of them were about cult related things but also of my (in my dream grown up) children accusing me of ruining their chances of a good uni and a good career and stuff.

I am just so drained and exhausted from the EF and the nightmares - and the attack itself. We didn't stick around long enough for h's friend to return.

Parenting (Children, Teens & Adult Children) / Re: Teenage kids
« on: January 29, 2015, 08:46:32 AM »
Cat - it all sounds pretty normal to me. I had the exact same fight about brushing their teeth with both my kids - and the exact same solution. That blue stuff really does all the talking for you.  :bigwink:

I go to an all women's gym and it is very very validating to hear that basically all mothers have roughly the same experiences when their children first start puberty. There is quite an age difference between my two kids (5 1/2 years) and now we're starting all over again...

This sounds horrible but it is not meant in a narc or creepy way: While you watch your child becoming a teenager, you can also take the time (without 'bothering' her about it, obviously) to re-mother yourself; watch what a normal development looks and feels like and fill in the gaps of your own adolescent years. You can also take the time to learn new ways of asserting yourself - ways that were closed to you at the time - and different ways of conflict solutions. So in a way, dealing with a teenager can even help you in dealing with your CPTSD.

I think your kids are lucky to have you as a mother. You love them and you care and you are willing to change your own behaviour according to their needs if necessary. What a huge difference to your own childhood and teenage home! It's hard to be a parent when you have nothing to fall back on. Kudos to you!  :hug:

C. - your son sounds delightful! Glad he picked up so many life skills at such a young age. I think it's really something that he can put his experiences into perspective so well already (my 17 yo is struggling with that). You've done a good job there.  ;D

Positive reinforcement is indeed an excellent tool. Thanks for reminding me!  :thumbup:

Parenting (Children, Teens & Adult Children) / Re: Teenage kids
« on: January 28, 2015, 01:54:08 PM »

Miracle advice - magic pills - one easy solution that makes everything alright ---- which planet should I send them to?  :bigwink:

Teenagers display crazy making behaviour - no two ways about it.

Some 'tricks' that help me get through the days:

- Easy on the mornings - discussing anything of importance is better in the afternoon/early evening

- Teenagers have difficulties making choices (has to do with brain development), so cut their choices down to as few options as possible (not as a means of manipulating them but as a means of making decisions easier for them, especially the daily unimportant ones)

- Teenagers like the company of other teenagers or their own best (especially young teenager, by the time they're 16-17 they become more sociable again). Give them as much space as possible but make it clear that there are a few rules of acceptable behaviour (calling you a 'bad mom' or other names is not an acceptable way to express their anger because they hurt someone else by doing so. There are other means that are acceptable) and there are also a few occasions when you require their presence (like birthdays or something), even if they get bored, they just have to deal with it like any grown up does, too.

- Teenagers have trouble seeing the consequences of their actions and choices - be their longterm part of the brain. Don't make important decisions for them, but try and discuss what the longterm consequences of this decision might be in contrast to the longterm consequences of that decision and then give them the space they need to come to a conclusion.

- Most difficult one: Don't pick up any fight they throw at you. (I'll let you know as soon as I've figured out how to follow my own advice  :bigwink:).  Chose the things you find worth fighting about (like e.g. school/homework) and let the other provocations go as much as you can.... Forgive yourself if you can't let them all go - you're only human and allowed to behave irrational on occasion :yes:.

Last but not least, treat yourself to * Swaab's book "Wij zijn ons brein" ( and read up on anything else you can find about the teenage brain - helps to get some distance between yourself and the daily banter...

CPTSD will get triggered a lot, but dealing with a teenager is never a picknick. :hug: But it's also a fun time, where they start to understand humour and subtlety, where the teenagers begin to seek and find their own place in the world and present you with a fresh view on many things. There'll be many times when you can thoroughly enjoy being with your teenage kids - I know I do.  :yes:

 :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

Hope tomorrow morning will be nicer for you!  :hug:

Therapy / Re: Compassion Focused Therapy
« on: January 27, 2015, 02:13:08 PM »
Thanks for the links, kizzie.

Compassion is such a hard concept to get your head around if you have CPTSD, especially self compassion. It's good that there are so many helpful resources now. I especially like the compassion focused CBT since I have had good experiences with CBT.


Last hope of continuation crushed today. I am shattered.

Kizzie, you're absolutely right: This job situation brings up very frightening memories from my past (my Nfather was at his most violent when jobless). You wouldn't believe it to look at me now (I am a size 12-14) but as a child I was seriously underfed - due to my f being out of a job frequently and both my Narents unwillingness to take responsibility for money. Sometimes we literally had no money for food and the little we had my Narents spend on things only they liked and sometimes ate it all before coming home so there was little to nothing for the four of us. Many of our basic needs weren't met when we were growing up.

These basic fears might indeed contribute to the OCr. I am too confused to know any more.

And it was then also possible to validate my Outer Critic somewhat. Not in his present bloodthirst, but in his righteous anger about past injustice.

Thanks for the suggestion, cat. I think I'm gonna try and validate my OCr as soon as I'm feeling stronger altogether. He probably deserves recognition, too, I never thought of that.

Large parts of this post could have been written by me. I am sorry to read that your CPTSD has isolated you.  :hug:

I've been NC with my Narents for nearly 14 years now, my h and I left the cult we grew up in about 8 years ago and were subsequently 'shunned' by all members - even the ones which we considered close personal friends - and just before my 40th birthday I had none of my close female friends left (two Ns and one B). The way I was discarded by my 'best' female friend (17 years) was the reason I found out about female narcs and then narcs in general and then the narc family system --- and then, though a lot of my life experiences suddenly made more sense and I could see patterns instead of isolated instances, I needed time to process all that and wasn't up to trying to find new close friends (....I seem to attract Ns and some Bs and I didn't want to repeat the pattern of one-sided friendships).

Right now, I do not have any new close female friends. I do miss it but at the same time I think that I'd just fall for the next N (or B, but I seem to attract mostly Ns). So about 18 months ago I joined a gym for women in my area and I have formed a lot of 'casual' female friendships now, though no close one. It's nice enough for me at the moment, because I feel I am not strong enough to be the kind of open and vulnerable again that you have to be in order to become closer friends than 'casual'.

Maybe that's an option for you, too? Find a group with a common interest and form 'casual' friendships before you're up to forming closer ones again? - It's not as rewarding as a close friend but also not as frightening and for me, it is a good first step in the right direction....

Hi, fairyslipper,

I just wanna give you a  :bighug: and a warm welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story with us.  :hug:

I am so sorry you didn't get the love and support you deserved from you family and friends and I hope you'll find some support and validation here.

Your story brought tears into my eyes - the selfish and inhumane behaviour that your FOO (family of origin) and 'friends' have displayed around your diagnosis and fight against breast cancer is just despicable. I wish I could shake some sense and compassion into them for you - you deserve so much better! :hug:

For what it's worth: It's quite possible that your 'friend' only faked being a cancer survivor - my Nmother often faked various illnesses and other kind of misfortunes to play the victim and get (undeserved) sympathy. People wouldn't believe me when I said she was lying - called me crazy and selfish and sympathized with her twice (once for her supposed illnesses/misfortunes and twice for her having such a 'heartless and selfish daughter'). Faking  cancer survival would not be beneath her (I cut all contact with her almost 14 years ago so I don't know her latest scams). She's a covert NPD, a pathological liar and literally nothing is beneath her to  get sympathy for maybe you've had the misfortune to run into a clone of her?

Anyway, best wishes to you!


Personality Disorder (Perpetrator) / Piper Narcissistic Abuse Score
« on: January 26, 2015, 11:09:51 AM »
I found this test today on the web:

It's only about narc mothers but I think you can replace the word 'mother' with any toxic person that has hurt you to find out how you're doing and which areas you still need to work on.

I got 3 red areas and 4 yellow ones (53 out of 105 points), which apparently means that my recovery is already going well ( :cheer:) but some areas still need extra attention (self-care especially - very true in my case!).

Family of Origin (FOO) / Re: Step-Dad divorcing uNPDM
« on: January 26, 2015, 11:00:39 AM »
Good for your step dad to get rid of her! I wish him healing and happiness - sounds like he deserves it!  :hug:

Sounds like you were lucky to have your step dad in your life as you grew up - and now he is the lucky one to have you in his life for support through the - undoubtedly ugly if I know anything about the drama Ns can and will create in such situations - divorce proceedings. I like how you say that you are the only other adult in this FOO (it's probably sad but true - in my FOO I often am the only 'adult'), so my advice is to stick to him, support him as much as he supports you and endure the ST that your NM and siblings will undoubtedly give you (again). ST is intended by the N to cause maximum hurt - but you can look at it as a welcome opportunity to breathe and take good care of yourself - and maybe rethink your toxic relationship(s) within your FOO in the meantime (your NM will only look for you for supply if you make yourself available - otherwise she'll stick to your  siblings, is my guess. MC and no JADEing should go a long way to ensure you won't be her target!).

Concentrate on the good and supportive relationships you've got going in your life (bf, stepdad....) and devote your time and energy to yourself and to the reciprocating friendships. Let the PDs and enmeshed people stew in their own juice and don't get involved - if you're the SG of your family, they'll blame you for anything and everything no matter what you do or how you actually behave.....

I have an overt NPDf and a covert NPDm as well as a PDsis. I've been NC with my Narents for almost 14 years and my PDsis has been giving me the ST since last May. Now I'm enjoying the silence from PDsis so much that I am considering letting the ST silently flow into NC (we were LC before). After a while, you stop missing the drama and start enjoying the freedom from it.

Follow your own heart and conscience. You are a grown up now and you are able to protect your IC as well as your grown up self from further harm! (Write down a reminder for yourself if necessary - I still need it sometimes and it really helps to write positive messages to yourself which you can fall back on in times of crisis).

Many  :hug: :hug: :hug: and best wishes to you! I'll be rooting for you and your step dad - you both deserve peace and freedom from the crazy.  :hug:

Introductory Post / Re: glad I found this place
« on: January 25, 2015, 06:19:58 PM »
Hi, md,

so sorry that you've had so many bad experiences with Ts before you found this one! Your new T sounds nice and validating and kudos to you for finding the courage to look once more for a good one after the experiences you had! You deserve a good one and I'm glad you found her at long last.  :hug:

What exactly is protracted withdrawal syndrome? Is there a chance of leaving it behind completely or is it more like a chronic disease: Here to stay, learn to live with it, enjoy the good days and hold on through the bad ones?

Best wishes, kf

Introductory Post / Re: Hello
« on: January 23, 2015, 11:33:36 AM »
Now I'm learning that my dads lack of emotional support due to his bad childhood may be the real beginning of my story rather than marrying a psychpath. Its rocked me to the core. I love my dad and I cant believe he would mean to hurt me. But now I can see my trying to please the psychopath, at least in the early years was like me trying to please my father.


What a can of worms has been opened here. :hug:

I, too, grew up with a very distorted idea of 'love' (narc parents, one narc sis). In retrospect, I spent all my childhood and youth treading a hamster wheel for little scrums of affection - that weren't even 'affection' at all but just aimed to keep me going and trying even harder....

I feel like if I allow myself to feel the hurt and sadness that I am wasting my life now when I should make the most of the freedom and safety I now have. I feel that by being sad somehow the psychopath is still winning even though hes moved on. But can I ever really be happy without somehow reconciling what he did to me, and worse to my daughter?

It's terribly unjust.

I deal with it by mourning the past but also by thinking: "They'll never get another piece of me. The rest of my life is my own and I owe it to myself to take good care of myself and heal and get stronger. I no longer feed the emotional vampires - I no longer waste my energy on people who do not reciprocate."

It doesn't make injustice go away, but it feels empowering to know there is so much I can do to take control of my life now and give toxic people the space they deserve in it: none (...or as close to 'none' as I can get).

Kudos to you!

Introductory Post / Re: glad I found this place
« on: January 23, 2015, 08:37:58 AM »
Hello, mourningdove,

nice to meet you on this forum!  :wave:

I'm glad you found the courage to post here.  :hug:

Walker's book is a great resource and at the heart of many discussions here.

What have you been misdiagnosed with? I've been diagnosed with PTSD and mild depression in 2001 and in 2012 with CPTSD. Sounds like nothing but the "C" actually made a huge difference and things started falling into place that I couldn't make sense of before (...e.g. that the 'mild depression' is an integral part of my CPTSD and should not have simply been ignored all those years...).

I hope to get to know you better and hope you'll find support and understanding here.

Kudos to you, kf

Introductory Post / Re: Hello
« on: January 22, 2015, 01:30:30 PM »
Hello, pippapop,

nice to meet you on this forum!  :wave:

I'm glad you've found us and hope that you'll find validation and support for yourself here. It is very nice community and has helped me lots.

I am sorry to read what you and your d must have been through for 8 long years and hope that both of you will have the time and opportunity to heal and find peace and love in your life. You deserve it!  :hug:

Best wishes, kf

General Discussion / Re: Empathy for my father (not like it seems)
« on: January 22, 2015, 01:11:40 PM »
 :applause: :applause: :applause:

I think it is great that you can empathise with your f in his current situation yet at the same time be compassionate and true to yourself in staying NC for your own health's sake.

That's one of the things I worked on in t: Allowing different 'realities' to co-exist: Your f's who is now totally dependant on the care of a son who's incapable of empathy --- and your own, who has been forced into NC with that same f because he himself has caused too much harm to you to let it continue. This way, you can feel true empathy towards your f without being FOGged back into an unhealthy relationship.

Kudos to you! It's very inspiring!  :hug:

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