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Messages - keepfighting

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General Discussion / Re: Everything is a trigger (possible triggers)
« on: April 08, 2015, 06:43:52 AM »
Hi, nmg,

there seems to be a bit of confusion about the acronyms. IC = Inner Child; ICr = Inner Critic.

How are you doing today? Still hanging in there?

General Discussion / Re: Everything is a trigger (possible triggers)
« on: April 07, 2015, 05:56:02 PM »
I took everyone's advise and did a yoga session for myself, and this sounds so stupid, but I stopped when my body said it'd had enough- I stopped the session before completing it. I very rarely let myself do that in the past, so I'm proud of myself. Stupid I know. Oh no, there goes my IC again telling me I'm being stupid for ever being proud of myself. When will this end! :stars:

No more putting yourself down - taking care of yourself, 'listening' to your own needs (physical or emotional or both...) is not stupid, it's great!  Keep it up! :cheer:

Family of Origin (FOO) / Re: Messed Up with a Familial Relationship
« on: April 07, 2015, 05:15:51 PM »
However, my concern is that she won't trust the boundaries that I need toI've set with her, which is not to discuss me or anything we talk about with my mother (her grandma), which might also mean not discussing it with her mom (as my mom likes to suck information about me from everyone). I've explained that my mom is still abusive to me and that she uses information given to her as ammunition.

I'm okay not discussing family or history with her, but I'm afraid that she won't respect my need for privacy and my no contact policy with my grandma or siblings. It seems too complicated!

OMG, I'm almost in an identical situation with my youngest sis (34  with h and 2 kids of her own). I have to watch every single word - even something as innocuous as what I bought in the supemarket gets passed on. It's crazy making and I can only maintain contact with my sis by using a combination of MC and LC - and sometimes I very much doubt it's worth it.

Your niece wants a relationship with you on certain terms - but she is not the only one in this relationship who can set terms and conditions. Asking for complete privacy - inculding towards her m (your sis) - seems the minimum you have to ask in order to try and protect your personal space. The big question is whether you can trust her - seeing as her m lives in the same place, your sis is bound to ask lots of questions each time after you and your niece have met - and one of them is bound to pass tidbits of information on to either your m directly or to some other member of your FOO who will then pass it on to your m........... (I know this sounds paranoid but that's the extent the triangulation in my FOO takes - you cannot possibly close all the possible leaks...  :stars:).

It's all very well that your niece wants a relationship with you, but the more important question is what do you want? Do you want a relationship with your niece knowing what the reality of it will be like? Which terms and conditions would you like to have in place before you go any further?

It will never be an easy relationship and only you can determine how much you are willing to invest in it and what you're hoping to get out of it...

Sending you a hug!  :hug:

Family of Origin (FOO) / Re: Messed Up with a Familial Relationship
« on: April 07, 2015, 12:05:08 PM »
Need some background information:

- How old is your niece and does she still live at home/is financially dependant on m/f?
- How is your relationship with niece's parents (LC/NC, for how long)?
- How and why did your niece initiate contact? Do you know?

Generally speaking:

- A child, even an adult child, has the right to love and respect his/her parents, even though those same parents might not actually deserve their children's love and respect. It's never wise to try and interfere in a parent/child relationship (not saying that you are!) - even in a toxic one - since it will push the child into an impossible situation between loyalties. That is still true even for adult children - just recall how many years and how many steps it took you to admit to yourself and others that all was not well in your FOO...

- I understand that you love your niece and want a relationship with her. The most important part is to keep the communication lines open and MC (Medium Chill) is probably the safest way to go about it for now. That includes choosing only neutral subjects of conversation. (Tough one when you need and deserve validation for your pain and acknowledgment of the fact you're speaking your truth and have a right to do so without being ostracised)

It would be lovely for you to have at least one confidante within the FOO and you totally deserve it - but it might be too much to ask of your niece right now. I can't be the judge of that but you know the situation well enough to be.

Toxic family systems are often so poisoned by smear campaigns and triangulation that it's hard to maintain a relationship with even the strongest and healthiest members of the FOO.

Best wishes to you and your niece.  :hug:

This is a place where I have heard the magic words:

I understand, I get what you're saying.

Thank you, all of you, for understanding and validating.  :hug:

General Discussion / Re: Everything is a trigger (possible triggers)
« on: April 06, 2015, 03:05:51 PM »
Hi, nmg,


I am sorry to read that you feel so alone on top of feeling triggered and confused.   :hug:

The feeling of loneliness seems to somehow belong to CPTSD - I suffer from it a lot myself and am glad for the support OOTS has to offer in this respect. Like you, I've been through smear campaigns and shunning. It's horrible and isolating and leaves you with a feeling of having lost the war before you were aware that the first bullet was fired...

How many more days till your next t session?

Please be really really nice to yourself - it sounds like what you need most now are some 'emotional ointments and bandates' - something that reminds you that there are good things and good people in life, as well.

Everybody is different but here are some things that help me survive:

- A nice chick lit
- A Belgian chocolate
- A walk
- A workout
- A hot bath
- Soft music
- Listening to a TED talk

Please keep on posting - we're here for one another!

Sending you a thousand good thoughts!  :hug:

General Discussion / Re: The issue?
« on: April 05, 2015, 03:01:51 PM »
In therapy, is it more important to work on the issue that caused all this, in my case my Dad's suicide? Or, the past issues that this has brought back to life? Could the past issues resolve themselves if the issue of his suicide is addressed? Are you tired of my questions yet?

It's okay to let different issues co exist in recovery.

That's the extent of my insights so far, so it's probably not much use to you.  :bigwink:

Introductory Post / Re: New here---
« on: April 05, 2015, 02:50:41 PM »
Hi, Ari,

nice to meet you on this forum!  :wave:

I'm pretty lucky -- it's been hellish, but I'm moving forward.

This brings tears and a smile to my face at the same time. So many emotions are covered by this sentence...  :hug:

It is a sunny day here - went cycling for an hour. What a treat!  :sunny:

Hope to get to know you better soon.  :yes:

General Discussion / Re: Learned Behavior
« on: April 05, 2015, 09:44:36 AM »
Have you tried CBT yet?

I have had good experiences with it and it deals with exactly this: Recognizing and unlearning learned behaviour.

It concentrates on the behaviour that was well adaptive at the time (helped you survive in a toxic and soometimes even dangerous environment) but becomes maladaptive if you are in a safe and stable situation in the present. Not a magic pill, but it helped me get a better control over/get rid of maladaptive behaviour and deal with my fawn tendencies (...though it did nothing for my freeze tendencies...).

I am very sorry to read that you had to lose your f at such a young age and witnessed it, too.  :hug:

You are right in saying that kids are pretty tough in dealing with whatever life throws at them - but in a situation like your f's death which must have been pretty upsetting for everyone - kids are also  easy to be overlooked (unwittingly) by adults who are too preoccupied with themselves and their own efforts to deal with an overwhelming situation to recognize and respond appropriately to their kids' needs.

General Discussion / Re: Conversation with my lovely, dear brother
« on: April 03, 2015, 01:17:32 PM »
Sounds like a lovely evening and good self care tactics.  :yes:

One thought occured to me when I read your original post:

Just because you grew up in the same home doesn't mean you had the same experiences. So much depends on the role you were assigned to play in a toxic family environment and it is completely possible that your b is more emotionally resilient and authentic because he had experienced more love than you had: There might have been someone for him who's shown him that he is loved and appreciated for who he is - and that someone might even have been you.

I am saying this because my own youngest sis is the most emotionally 'together' person from my FOO. She didn't get love from our Narents, but she did get some from our bro (lost child) and me (scapegoat). They say that experiencing even a little bit of genuine love and affection can make a huge difference to a person's wellbeing. Maybe it's true.  ???

Thank you, Bee - reframing by change of perspective seems like a really good suggestion.  :thumbup:

WF - first off: You totally deserve breakfast in bed, especially when your sick.  :yes: Glad you were able to accept it!

Might be that the ICr is involved in creating the automated thought process. I am still a newby when it comes to ICr work but your insight has given me a lot of stuff for thought. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you for your validation, WM - it means a lot to me.  :hug: Getting the feelings aligned with the cognitive knowledge is sooooo hard!

Cat - I understand what you mean when you say that accepting a kindness feels like you're inconveniencing people. It does - and it shouldn't. In the future, I'll try to think of it more like Bee suggested - like giving others the opportunity to feel good about themselves by being kind to me.

It was my birthday a few days ago. I knew no one would be coming who'd have any nasty backhanders prepared for me, yet the two nights before my birthday I still couldn't sleep. It came as a surprise to me when I realized that I felt tense and anxious at the thought of being spoilt and 'celebrated'. I felt like I'd rather that it was anybody's birthday but my own - it's harder to hide in the background if it's your own party...

But that was only the occasion that brought this problem to my attention - sometimes even thanks or a pat on the shoulder can produce the feeling of unease/discomfort.

Today I realized that it often makes me feel uncomfortable if someone is kind to me. Growing up the way I did, I've come to expect being pushed around, being ignored, being blamed for 'whatever', being (publicly) shamed for every little flaw I have, .... Kindnesses, on the other hand, put me instantly on my guard. The only 'kindnesses' I am used to (...and that's including birthday presents or hugs when I was injured), were 'given' to me with the understanding that I would be expected to repay them 10 times over - and at the giver's demand.

There are two thoughts that seem to pop up in my mind:

1) Shame. A very deep feeling of "I don't deserve niceness. I am not good enough."

2) What does s/he really want from me?

I wish I could break this cycle. Not only understand cognitively that  it's okay to expect and accept kindnesses from others, but also be able to feel that I deserve it.

Does anyone else still have problems with this? How do you handle it? How do you stop your automated thoughts that tell you you're not worth it????

General Discussion / Re: Rejection (possible trigger)
« on: April 02, 2015, 07:11:55 AM »
Dear Lonewolf,

 :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

This is so unfair; you don't deserve to be frozen out of your FOO.

I can feel your pain - same thing happened to me - and I wish I could offer you a shoulder to cry on.  :hug: At least know that you are not alone.  :hug:

Sending you many good thoughts and cyber hugs.

 :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

Hi, MMC,

it's not you, it's her! No doubt about it! And though FOO issues may be in the background, it's her behaviour towards you now that causes your anger/frustration. Totally normal and justified feelings.

She sounds very passive aggressive to me. Whenever you feel like you want to or actually have to explain normal behaviour towards a person who should know it by now (like you explaining to this lady that it's inappropriate to discuss matters in front of a group of people that should be discussed between the two of you - she should definitely know that at her age!) it's a red flag that you're dealing with passive aggressiveness.

Passive aggressive people are unable to find an outlet for their own anger/frustration so their game is to  frustrate others into displaying the emotions they cannot - and then come across as the 'reasonable' one while you are exploding after having been subjected to their little arrows of poison (often cusioned in nice and innocent words) for weeks or even months (in your case). I HATE passive aggressiveness (covert Nm and paPDsis) because it's a back stabbing game which seems perfectly innocent from the outside and it's very hard to set boundaries with them. They often get worse when they age, too....  :stars:

Well, what might help a bit: Do not JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. (I learned this on OOTF)

She knows perfectly well that you returned her pictures and you've done more than enough already. Stop JADEing and try avoiding her as much as possible on Friday - nothing else you can do and her behaviour is her responsibility.

Good luck on Friday!  :hug:

Checking Out / Re: Busy Mar to mid-May
« on: March 31, 2015, 10:26:04 AM »
Oh well, at least where his job is is a fantastic coastal city with all kinds of things to do and see which helps to balance things out.   

Sounds nice! Throw some sunshine into the mix and it's perfect.  :sunny:  ;D

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