Messages

Many thanks Candid.  This looks good!

I feel for you radical.  It's a horrible experience.  So sorry it happened to you.  Big hugs.

How desperately sad for you sanmagic, as a mum myself I can't imagine how this must be for you

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.......

I have no idea if this will bring you any comfort but just to know I'm thinking of you.

Thanks Ren for explaining.  Wishing you all the best too.

Thanks for the link Ren and I'm glad you found this therapy helpful.  I can see why it might help take the blame and responsibility off of you.  I confess I'm a bit biased having listened to a compelling Polish crime thriller drama 'Entanglement' on the radio last year set during a Family Constellation Therapy meeting! 

How does this therapy differ from actually hearing from the PD parent themselves about their background?  Or having this corroborated form others?  Or not hearing as the case with my NM - my knowledge of her background was a blank as she refused to mention it, which was also very telling and I instinctively knew that something was wrong but took me til after she died to fully realise why.

I agree Dutch Uncle that in the wrong hands this therapy would be ideal for passing the buck.  I sympathise as my mother was very similar.  They must have gone to the same therapy school.

Thanks sanmagic, good for you for questioning this concept of forgiveness which seems to be the accepted norm.  I could never get on with the idea myself and it's good to hear others who think the same way.  Feeling something we can't for what ever reason is just an unnecessary pressure and one we can do without.  My sister "forgave" my mother but it didn't do her any favours as my mother took it as a green light and just continued in her own merry way.  It's different if people show remorse!  I hope you are feeling a bit better today and have found some way to unwind and relax.

Good question Samantha.    My last T cost me £40 also and it was a costly experience.
Hadn't thought of going fortnightly and wonder if there are any benefits for spacing the treatment out like this apart from the obvious financial one.  Some people go twice weekly for example.
Part of me objects to paying twice theoretically, already paying NI for inadequate MH services.  But have to think what's best for me.
Have you looked around to see what therapists in your area offer?

Oh my goodness this is me alright!  Hidden my internal turmoil from the world and even to some extent from myself.  Thanks!

Many thanks sanmagic, your pointing out the necessity of feeling safe has been extremely helpful and opened my eyes to more:
As I was coming to the end of the 4th session and reaching for my purse to pay her, a strange man appeared at the window of the therapy room knocking loudly which made me jump out of my seat as you can imagine!  T apologised  and rushed out, I followed and got into my car feeling embaressed but relieved that he had not arrived earlier.  T emailed me later and apologised that he had "arrived early" to pick up some goslings which she had been breeding in the derelict caravan (good recycling!)  I dismissed this and didn't think any more of it.  It was the following session (5th and final) when upon entering the room I noticed the papers strewn across the floor, plus glass, tissues and the cushion of the clients armchair half hanging off which I then had to push back in order to sit down.  Like the scene of a crime: who had been there before....or was it my debris from the session the previous week?  (Although I couldn't recall using that particular glass)  Had someone been disturbed and rushed out?  In any case she had not gone back to tidy up.  My brain might have unconsciously registered the chap's untimely interruption and the scene of disarray before me and put 2 and 2 together and prevented me from really opening up emotionally  in the 5th session.  So I conclude that the anxiety may have been protecting me because deep down I didn't feel safe....with good reason it would seem.  This last year I have been feeling quite inadequate that I haven't been able to "do" therapy and tending to blame myself.  Looking back though through the lense of feeling safe it's quite understandable that I didn't and T had done little to assure me that I was safe by her rather careless approach.  So this has been quite a revelation to me, that the anxiety I was showing was something to take note of, beneficial and protecting me even, rather than something to fight against!  Wow!  Makes sense now!  Thank you!

Oh my goodness thank you so much, I felt like crying receiving your kind and helpful reply Sanmagic!

I have no idea about feeling safe, so many things have never occurred to me.  I have been asked to think of a safe place by the last 2 T's and I thought of the beach where I can scan widely and see anyone approaching from a distance unless someone is in the sand hills behind!  In total I have done 18 months therapy but never really covered this topic in full.  I don't really know where to begin with that one.  Physically, I can only assume and hope that no one will barge in whilst in session.  Emotionally, well I have never really thought about that properly but thank you for raising this.  T2  (the one who retraumatised me) told me the breath was my place of safety, problem was she was unsafe to be around.

yes about the notes, I couldn't see the writing upside down but even if they weren't notes she shouldn't have left any papers lying around like that.  I agree it doesn't instill confidence.  Thank you so much, I have been agonising about whether I should return to T3 for a year now.  She had everything going for her in terms of her therapy style.  But now  you have pointed out the feeling safe issue it has hit me as I write to you that all this doesn't feel very safe for me!

At some point I guessed that the access trouble plus all the other concerns might raise their head after all it's not something I can ignore especially if repeated (I was getting more and more exasperated about the potholed driveway, especially as she could have strimmed the vast amount of vegetation between the wheels as I was driving up which was definitely scraping the underside of the car!)  I'm not sure what fits for me as I have not encountered that yet, but thank you for helping me work out what doesn't,  I realise that now at least.  As you can see I have completely lost trust in my own judgement.

Best wishes to you for your own recovery and I hope you find a good fit in a therapist yourself.

Thank you Danaus and Sanmagic

In all honesty I have given up the idea of reporting T2 who I saw for a year (I recognised her in Pete Walkers book) as I really think it would be traumatising to relive the whole experience with no real chance of a resolution.  Thanks to T3 I have kind of understood and accepted why I tolerated T2, even though I only went to T3 for 5 sessions but it seemed enough before the anxiety started.  It felt like fear Sanmagic so thanks for validating and confirming this.  This is helpful to hear from someone else!  Perhaps I would have carried on with T3 but I had additional concerns which I haven't mentioned, not really knowing if they are something to worry about, or if it's just me being picky!  I wonder if these concerns may have also fed into the anxiety.

Being very wary now that I have made some bad choices in the past I did listen to myself and this concern with T3 centres around the state of her place as she was offering therapy at home as part of a business.  Of course it's completely up to her how she lives but the place she lives in is shabby and unkempt - her therapy room is nice as one would hope  but she had left notes strewn across the floor one time and a glass of water half drunk from the previous client I can only assume plus some used tissues.  Maybe that was a one off, she described herself once as "scatty".  The bird feeder outside the window was a pleasant distraction and I had never seen a baby woodpecker before.  There's a lot more such as rusty old cars in her garden alongside the drive way, massive potholes also and I was concerned about the underside of my car driving into the place specially as we had just spent a large sum of money welding the underside due to rust!  That may be down to her husband though, or out of her control.  She does mention if there are any concerns about 'elf and safety on her contract form.  My husband thinks I should mention my concerns as it might affect my relationship with her....what?  me?  no way!  What right have I got to criticise the way she lives and operates her business.  He says it's not about that but my concerns!  It's a shame.  If she seemed more careful and professional all round then I think I may have returned. Is this something I need to consider do you think?  Does this have any impact on her treatment and my ability to feel relaxed and confident and ultimately trust her?  Although what I have experienced with her so far is good and I like the style of therapy she offers. I would appreciate your opinions on this, don't really know how to guage this.  Have asked a few people and the  reply is "Well does it bother you?"  Well it does only in relation to her possible lack of self awareness about access to her home bearing in mind she is running her business there.  So I'm not sure how to progress and have left things to drift.  I do like her, she comes across as a genuinely nice person and is receptive and careful about her approach to me, very different to T2, who incidentally had a sparkling office environment but lacked the skills to deal with trauma as mentioned before.  So I know it's not only about environment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Thanks for your support.  I'm sorry that you had to go through something similar regarding reporting a therapist.  8 years is a long time to work through the damage done, I feel for you and can only applaud you for taking that step.  Even if the therapist still practises at least you know you did the right thing for for yourself and it must have been satisfying to feel validated and to get the outcome you did. 

Thank you Arpy and Sienna for originally posting.  I'd like to get better at finding the right therapist for myself.  I don't trust my judgement any longer, so reading your posts has been useful and hope you don't mind me joining the conversation.

I definitely had the blank screen T at times, when she wasn't talking that is.  This was number 2 who wasn't at all good.  Looking back I ended up using some of the tactics I used to attempt to understand my mother, in other words because T 2 didn't give me feedback I ended up "reading" her and 2nd guessing.  T 2 didn't  suggest how I should behave any other way (such as by encouraging questions or feed back), instead criticised me for doing this. She didn't keep the connection going at all in the "therapeutic relationship", she only talked about it!  I think you need to listen to your red flags Sienna and if it all feels familiar to you then it probably is, this may not be at all about projection but maybe about her abilities.   I used to feel put on the spot also which felt very nerve wracking and T really should be  more sensitive to your needs I think.  But I'm no expert!

T 3 was a "relational" style which was a lot better for me and I felt a lot closer somehow and didn't have to keep guessing and interpreting what was happening because T 3 was very clear, reassuring and explained everything to me.  I stopped going to her for other reasons but not because she wasn't good.

Just wondering Dutch Uncle and to any others who can identify themselves brought up in the "Lost/invisible child" role, if undergoing therapy becomes more anxiety provoking then with the other roles?  I appreciate that it's hellishly difficult for all of us, but is there something about "being seen" which is particularly threatening to that "self" we were conditioned into perhaps?

Many thanks Dutch Uncle for your kind wishes and reply and for the gallows humour which did make me laugh!

It took me a good 6 months to figure out what exactly had happened with therapist 2 whereupon I contacted the governing body and was advised that I had 3 years in which to lodge a complaint and was matter of factly advised to consult a therapist for support.  You can imagine my reply!  But as time went on I knew I had to get some answers and T3 was totally professional, didn't react defensively and asked permission to consult her colleagues as she had never dealt with this particular problem before.  We drew up a list of contrast and compare the likenesses between mother and therapist and guess what there was overriding similarity (and interestingly more people were added to the list!)   She approached it from the point of view of breach of contract, basically I went to see T2 to get better not worse, and that this was not about me projecting onto T2.  It seemed likely that I did have good grounds to lodge a complaint but how to prove it, before I could decide one way or the other I left her services.  Overall I have dropped this now as I think it would be too traumatic for me to pursue anything, it would be a case of my word against hers in the end and what would be the outcome?  From what she said about other clients I do suspect that she upset a lot of them in a similar way to me (that in itself is unprofessional)

Ironically T2 accepted that my mother as T was fundamentalist and dangerous and then went onto treat me in a similar way.  Weird. 

Oh poor you, 40 years of involuntary theraping from mom is a long time and I feel for you, it means it becomes very difficult, the method which could help becomes the method which, if not careful, could potentially damage.  Seems like there's an awful lot of mud to wade through before even stepping onto the starting line.  I'm glad you were validated by the primary care team though, even though you weren't given a formal diagnosis to work on.

Pete Walker talks about needing a T versed in relational type therapy and I did notice a difference in T3's approach as she wanted continual feedback with me which was good, instead of saving the best bit - the countertransference - til last.  The relational style apparently puts the theraputic working relationship at the heart of the therapy and echoes Pete Walker's view (hope I got this right) that cptsd is to do with healthy attachment, or lack of it.  Hence my difficulties.

Thanks again.

I have been to see 3 therapists now and become increasingly anxious as time goes on as the relationship develops - which runs counter to what I have understood about therapy. Is this something that others experience?  It gets to the stage where I find it very difficult to function with everyday life.  I haven't gone with burning issues although these do arise from time to time when I have EF's, but more to do with a general understanding of my past, starting in late 2012 when my mother was dying and my refusal to see her before she passed away in 2013.   So I have been in a relatively calm place before seeing the T, able to describe my situation quite rationally but the pattern seems to be that after a few sessions with the new T the anxiety starts.
                                                                                                                                                                                       
the first I saw a few years ago I didn't know what to expect, she was a Rogerian style T, a kindly lady but I felt I lacked a structure and purpose and was aimlessly waffling on.  One thing she did say to me was that she wasn't going to "become my mother" and pressurise me.  If only I had heeded her advice, but I left after 8 weeks and her reply was "You don't know what you want"

With number 2 I stayed for a year and she was the opposite - it felt reassuring for a while to be told what my problems were but she completely took over and retraumatised me.  Unfortunately I had unconsciously chosen a person like my mother, this is why I stuck with her for so long.  I became a bag of nerves, suffered with many cptsd symptoms, and it took me about a year to recover and get back to a relatively even keel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            9 months later, last summer, I visited another T who I liked immediately, who is a "relational" type and understands about cptsd.  I needed help understanding what had happened with the previous T and whether I had grounds to complain to the governing body.  I found her very good, but after 5 sessions the most terrible anxiety overcame me afterwards and I couldn't continue.  I recognise this is to do with my "freeze/fawn stance" - she gave me a sympathetic look whilst I was describing the previous T's approach and I couldn't react/had to hold it in until I got outside and then burst into tears (which I hadn't done at all over the previous T until then)

I would like to visit the 3rd T again as underlying issues in my relationship with my husband have resurfaced and I feel as if I need to understand what's going on.  I am better informed as to what I want and need and she seems to fit the bill, but I balk at going back to her if I'm going to become so anxious again where I cannot function.  Or is that me worrying about something which I cannot predict for sure especially as I have now become aware of the pattern?!

Just to mention that from my reading my self diagnosis is avoidant attached which makes it difficult for me, going back to my past and my understanding is that my N mother needed me not to need her, so as the "invisible child" I never bonded with her at all.  My mother also trained and practised as a therapist in her later years so I'm aware that there are problems there.

Thank you