Recent posts
#21
Recovery Journals / Re: Dalloway´s Recovery Journa...
Last post by SenseOrgan - February 16, 2026, 05:42:17 PMCongratulations Dalloway! The spell of unworthiness is broken. I'm popping the Champaign my friend. Here's to the point of no return. 🥂 
#22
Symptoms - Other / Re: Complex Relational Trauma,...
Last post by Kizzie - February 16, 2026, 05:30:20 PMHey Big Blue, as often happens when I read your posts I find myself saying "Yes!"
Several years ago I came across something to do with the being "other-referenced" versus "self-referenced". It rang so true because in my family of origin I had to constantly be on the lookout for anger leading to abuse/neglect so I was very "other-referenced" as a way of keeping as safe as I could. This carried over to all my encounters with others and I kept losing myself. I did not know who I was and how to reside in my own body. I always allowed myself to be pulled out by others and the main strategy I had was to be overly interested in them and overly empathetic to anything they were going through. It was a kind of fawning response but it did keep me safe or so I thought. What that led to is as you write "And what emerges is exactly what hurts so deeply: the feeling that something fundamentally human - reciprocal empathy - is missing." I did not ask for reciprocity, I made it seem like I didn't need it so of course people were happy to talk about themselves. It's not something that grows genuine relationships though.
At some point I knew I had to start self-referencing and it was difficult I will admit. There was no roadmap other than when I felt myself being overly concerned with others I needed to pull back and try to look after me. That felt selfish for the longest while. I also starting pulling back from people who only have the capacity to talk about themselves. Now people who do that actually make me angry because I grew up with N's and it drags me back to my roots, a place I don't want to go. When you can't get a word in edgewise it says something about that person, and it's nothing I want to rescue them from anymore or expend my energy on. That sounds a bit brutal as I write it, but I am not talking about people who need genuine empathy, support, compassion, etc. It's those who are only to happy to take up airspace without reciprocity - big red flag for me these days.
Anyway, now I feel like I am much more regulated which is to say it feels like I have an authentic interest in others and genuine empathy that I don't get lost in. I do still have to watch myself because old habits die hard, but what helps is knowing about being self versus other referenced. I can hear myself telling myself nowadays to stay in my body and make sure I remain regulated in relationships.
Great post, thanks!
Several years ago I came across something to do with the being "other-referenced" versus "self-referenced". It rang so true because in my family of origin I had to constantly be on the lookout for anger leading to abuse/neglect so I was very "other-referenced" as a way of keeping as safe as I could. This carried over to all my encounters with others and I kept losing myself. I did not know who I was and how to reside in my own body. I always allowed myself to be pulled out by others and the main strategy I had was to be overly interested in them and overly empathetic to anything they were going through. It was a kind of fawning response but it did keep me safe or so I thought. What that led to is as you write "And what emerges is exactly what hurts so deeply: the feeling that something fundamentally human - reciprocal empathy - is missing." I did not ask for reciprocity, I made it seem like I didn't need it so of course people were happy to talk about themselves. It's not something that grows genuine relationships though.
At some point I knew I had to start self-referencing and it was difficult I will admit. There was no roadmap other than when I felt myself being overly concerned with others I needed to pull back and try to look after me. That felt selfish for the longest while. I also starting pulling back from people who only have the capacity to talk about themselves. Now people who do that actually make me angry because I grew up with N's and it drags me back to my roots, a place I don't want to go. When you can't get a word in edgewise it says something about that person, and it's nothing I want to rescue them from anymore or expend my energy on. That sounds a bit brutal as I write it, but I am not talking about people who need genuine empathy, support, compassion, etc. It's those who are only to happy to take up airspace without reciprocity - big red flag for me these days.
Anyway, now I feel like I am much more regulated which is to say it feels like I have an authentic interest in others and genuine empathy that I don't get lost in. I do still have to watch myself because old habits die hard, but what helps is knowing about being self versus other referenced. I can hear myself telling myself nowadays to stay in my body and make sure I remain regulated in relationships.
Great post, thanks!
#23
Recovery Journals / Re: the next step
Last post by NarcKiddo - February 16, 2026, 03:53:36 PMYay for the robin and the red highlights. I'm glad you're showing your inner princess to the world again. 
#24
Recovery Journals / Re: Marcine’s journaling forwa...
Last post by NarcKiddo - February 16, 2026, 03:51:16 PMI'm glad you are finding a path to self-acceptance and being a friend to yourself.
#25
Recovery Journals / Re: the next step
Last post by Armee - February 16, 2026, 03:42:26 PM
Joyoushugs filled with red Robin songs for the red Robin princess on her way to therapy to get loving kind support.
#26
Recovery Journals / Re: Marcine’s journaling forwa...
Last post by Chart - February 16, 2026, 02:19:49 PM #27
Symptoms - Other / Re: Complex Relational Trauma,...
Last post by Chart - February 16, 2026, 02:05:03 PMQuickly, off-subject (a little) I believe EVERYTHING is trauma, from cancer to suicide, from dictatorship to messiah. From the distant past to recurrent nightmares. The variable is only how it manifests. (Just my opinion, and I might be excessive... I have that tendency :-)
Empathy... I got it bad. But I was valued during that critical phase. I was the savior, so the hope of my salvation powers had a double-edged effect: I was the center of the universe for my mom, but the expectations were total délirium. So it didn't work, I was washed in violence and confusion, and went the path of "prediction" and "comprehension". I know how people are feeling, more often than not, far better than they know themselves how they are feeling. I can "see" it instantly, and for more complex situations, a few days of unconscious reflection will frequently lead me to deep (insane?) realizations of others and/or specific situations.
I don't typically lose myself in these situations, but it is rarely anything that I can do anything about. So I don't (never?) go down those perceptive roads.
EXCEPT with like-Empaths. (I think there is an unofficial term for this, 'super-Empath'. I find most people here on the forum to be in this category. It goes along with being highly sensitive. No judgments, just my perception/belief/opinion.
Yes, all this came about for survival reasons. I was also groomed for it. Now I have it, but it doesn't particularly help me. Except I am now applying it to my inners. Especially the baby who was dipped in Fear like Achilles in the Styx... but I'm far from invincible, quite the contrary.
I also apply empathy to myself now, more and more, especially since understanding what I suffer from. I also have stopped A LOT of my "going towards analyzing others". I just shut the equipment off when I realize it's going that way. But the exception is with people like me. But even then I'm careful. I do still want to do "good" but have learned, "good" is relative, and I'm a voyager here just like everybody else.
I think there's a subtle but important difference between empathy in men and women. Possibly it's easier for men to "get past it" than women. But that's just a hunch and for sure not any kind of global rule.
My mother: I have immense amounts of empathy for my mom. But I'm still nc (or very very low). Too much is too much, and hope is not in very good shape. My mom is also empathic-capable, but only narcissistically. And she is inexperienced and NEVER turned to catch even a glimpse of her shadow. And her shadow in not grey, it's as black as they come. I can't do much there, I'm probably the only person on earth who sees this (huge) part of her. But she was traumatized in her turn, just like the poem by Philippe Larkin...
Empathy... I got it bad. But I was valued during that critical phase. I was the savior, so the hope of my salvation powers had a double-edged effect: I was the center of the universe for my mom, but the expectations were total délirium. So it didn't work, I was washed in violence and confusion, and went the path of "prediction" and "comprehension". I know how people are feeling, more often than not, far better than they know themselves how they are feeling. I can "see" it instantly, and for more complex situations, a few days of unconscious reflection will frequently lead me to deep (insane?) realizations of others and/or specific situations.
I don't typically lose myself in these situations, but it is rarely anything that I can do anything about. So I don't (never?) go down those perceptive roads.
EXCEPT with like-Empaths. (I think there is an unofficial term for this, 'super-Empath'. I find most people here on the forum to be in this category. It goes along with being highly sensitive. No judgments, just my perception/belief/opinion.
Yes, all this came about for survival reasons. I was also groomed for it. Now I have it, but it doesn't particularly help me. Except I am now applying it to my inners. Especially the baby who was dipped in Fear like Achilles in the Styx... but I'm far from invincible, quite the contrary.
I also apply empathy to myself now, more and more, especially since understanding what I suffer from. I also have stopped A LOT of my "going towards analyzing others". I just shut the equipment off when I realize it's going that way. But the exception is with people like me. But even then I'm careful. I do still want to do "good" but have learned, "good" is relative, and I'm a voyager here just like everybody else.
I think there's a subtle but important difference between empathy in men and women. Possibly it's easier for men to "get past it" than women. But that's just a hunch and for sure not any kind of global rule.
My mother: I have immense amounts of empathy for my mom. But I'm still nc (or very very low). Too much is too much, and hope is not in very good shape. My mom is also empathic-capable, but only narcissistically. And she is inexperienced and NEVER turned to catch even a glimpse of her shadow. And her shadow in not grey, it's as black as they come. I can't do much there, I'm probably the only person on earth who sees this (huge) part of her. But she was traumatized in her turn, just like the poem by Philippe Larkin...
#28
Recovery Journals / Re: the next step
Last post by sanmagic7 - February 16, 2026, 01:33:29 PMlovin' my hair - such fun! so girly, too, which is what i'm going for right now. the last man i was with, i asked him if he thought i was feminine. he said, 'well, you're no princess'. it's been a long time since i've had makeup on, futzed w/ my hair, painted my nails. too sick, too beat, too worn out, near death at times - so much drainage on my will and stamina that i couldn't get around to who i was anymore. i guess i'm reclaiming her. and for you youngsters out there, let me say, it's never too late!
o my heart! i just heard the first robin of the year! haven't seen one yet, which is always a big deal, kind of like the first snowfall of the winter. but the first robin brings tidings of spring and it's such a glorious song it sings. i'm smiling so big right now, can't wait to tell my D when she wakes up.
therapy today. let's see how this new adventure goes.
o my heart! i just heard the first robin of the year! haven't seen one yet, which is always a big deal, kind of like the first snowfall of the winter. but the first robin brings tidings of spring and it's such a glorious song it sings. i'm smiling so big right now, can't wait to tell my D when she wakes up.
therapy today. let's see how this new adventure goes.
#29
Recovery Journals / Re: TV's Repair Journal
Last post by NarcKiddo - February 16, 2026, 01:29:34 PMI'm sorry about the plastic plushie and how upsetting that was.
Really glad to read your later update. I agree with the others
Really glad to read your later update. I agree with the others
#30
Recovery Journals / Re: Miscellaneous ramblings of...
Last post by sanmagic7 - February 16, 2026, 01:26:52 PMyou know, NK, maybe i am a Luddite after all! reading what you wrote about them, i could very easily have been one of them, raging against the machine, if you will. i understand the idea of progress, and, especially in the medical and mental health fields it's been miraculous on some levels. and i can see AI as being able to be helpful to those who need it, especially for helping the disabled, but for myself i avoid it as much as possible. as far as smart phones go, no, i don't have one, don't need one. i've gotten by most of my life w/out this type of technology, and i don't plan to start now.
for one thing, i do not have the brain power to understand, put those pieces together of what means what, etc., and why. i see all the hazards of this 'new and improved' technology, and it saddens me no end. so, if i am one, i'll wear that label with pride. it doesn't take away from who i am, to my mind. i'm sorry, tho, that sometimes i'm a pain in the patoot about needing help w/ some of it! but, there it is.
as far as what you're going thru, i totally understand how one more thing could feel like it's taking you to the breaking point. that's not fair on you. i wish it could be easier for you, i truly do. you've been dealing w/ so much for so long, these horrible games being played on you, around you, involving you - so awful, so much. i hope your parents can settle down now into their own routine and leave you out of it as much as possible. love and hugs
for one thing, i do not have the brain power to understand, put those pieces together of what means what, etc., and why. i see all the hazards of this 'new and improved' technology, and it saddens me no end. so, if i am one, i'll wear that label with pride. it doesn't take away from who i am, to my mind. i'm sorry, tho, that sometimes i'm a pain in the patoot about needing help w/ some of it! but, there it is.
as far as what you're going thru, i totally understand how one more thing could feel like it's taking you to the breaking point. that's not fair on you. i wish it could be easier for you, i truly do. you've been dealing w/ so much for so long, these horrible games being played on you, around you, involving you - so awful, so much. i hope your parents can settle down now into their own routine and leave you out of it as much as possible. love and hugs