Acquired Neurodiversity?

[Blueberry]

I don't mean to sound hopeless. We *can* manage it, and I think we're all prime examples of that.

These days I feel more like a prime example of not managing.

Our brains can rewire to some extent, but the more exposure you have to something, especially something that involves extreme emotions, the more ingrained the response becomes and the less likely it is that you can undo it.

Chaos rains, I got badly retraumatised in FOO twice as an adult. Once about 10 years ago and then again maybe 7 years ago. I'm in my 50's btw. I already had trauma brain before then but things were better again brain-wise - not really good - but better than they had been. A lot less brain-fog etc. than in childhood and up until my 30's. Then in the aftermath of the retraumatisation about 7 years ago I realised I was having trouble forming new memories, though come to think of it the occurence 7 years ago was probably also a new emotional traumatisation, as I finally realised what FOO really thinks of me and realised how little they care. Linking to your words above, I suddenly had exposure to what they really thought and think of and about me. My emotions were extreme and gut-wrenching and heart-wrenching. It was awful. In the aftermath I came to the conclusion that I can allow myself to suffer that depth of retraumatisation only so many times and therefore not going through that again with FOO. But now I wonder after reading your post whether these (re)traumatisations knocked the re-wiring back so badly that doing a new re-wire is almost not on the cards? I have made progress since then but it's very slow going and rn everything feels very hopeless. Do you have any thoughts on the neuroscience there?

btw I feel more damaged than neurodiverse. Partly because 'neurodiverse' isn't really in my passive vocabulary never mind active. Maybe also because I still do tend to speak and think badly of myself so 'damaged' with a little derogatory laugh at myself fits  

[Lakelynn]

In the prior post, Blueberry asks: But now I wonder after reading your post whether these (re)traumatisations knocked the re-wiring back so badly that doing a new re-wire is almost not on the cards?

This thought is right on target, I wonder too. It almost seems to be a self-cancelling situation. The brain made a re-wire attempt, which was not locked into place, maybe having only one or two reccurances. Then a new trauma activated the original connection, which was stronger that the one/two time re-wire.

Thank you Blueberry.

[Chaos rains]

Blueberry, I'm so sorry to hear this. They get us coming and going, don't they?  Re-wiring is always in the cards, it just takes longer the older we get. And, as Lakelynn points out, the "trauma connections", however they are represented in our brains, have more chances to be reinforced over time. You can start to forget about something, which maybe means that those particular connections are not being used as much and so the connections weaken, maybe they don't elicit such a strong emotion when they do occasionally activate. You "habituate" to them. But one good re-exposure gets everything activated again. Some conscious memories fade, but these sub-conscious memories really don't seem to as much.

I don't want this sound hopeless because within the past five years I have experienced some measure of recovery - though I'm not sure recovery is the right word either. Maybe i should say I have achieved some measure of peace. I am in my mid-60's and have been in a state of emotional despair for the vast majority of my life. My current therapist is using a Developmental Needs-Meeting Strategy that has been a good fit for me. I can't explain it (yet) from a neuroscience perspective, but it's calmed my nervous system enough to notice. I really believe that there are strategies to either weaken those connections, or replace our current responses with new ones, or something. But like I said, I'm not on top of the current research. Those strategies might already be in use. Or maybe have been disproved. I'll have to read up on it.

[Kizzie]

My T was at the airport on her way to Vancouver but she did text me this link - https://khironclinics.com/blog/trauma-and-neurodiversity/.  This paragraph resonated for me:

Traumatic Sensory Overload

People with differing sensory experiences often find the world a hard place to inhabit. For most of us, the sound of a fire alarm, leaf blower, or a crisp packet crackling wouldn't even register; we'd forget about it the minute it passed. However, these sounds can be completely overwhelming for those prone to sensory overload, causing their nervous system to move into fight, flight, or freeze.

This is compounded by the fact that these experiences are often invalidated or not accommodated by others around them. As a result, people often learn to mask their threat response because they don't want to show fear or embarrass themselves, which does not allow the nervous system to complete the threat cycle.

The rest seems to be about how ND people are more prone to trauma versus trauma causing AQND so  Maybe I'm not reading it correctly but it's what I have been mostly coming across; that is, how ND people are more prone to trauma versus trauma causing AQND.

She also sent me this which does sound like it's about trauma causing AQND but I can't get at the complete article.  I'll ask her if she can send the whole article when she's back.

https://www.aota.org/publications/sis-quarterly/mental-health-sis/mhsis-8-22 - Complex trauma and neurodiversity: What happens in childhood doesn't always stay in childhood. 

[Lakelynn]

Wow! This is a wonderful thread here!

Chaos rains says: My current therapist is using a Developmental Needs-Meeting Strategy. That sounds very close to the current theories of "re-parenting." Not so much having to do with who is doing the parenting, in this case, ourselves, but the developmental need/task that wasn't completed successfully at the time it presented itself. I may be off in left field here. I often remark to my T that I'm learning now age 71, what I needed to learn at ages 7-9.

Kizzie says: , people often learn to mask their threat response... which does not allow the nervous system to complete the threat cycle.
And in effect, we are then our own "worst enemies" through no conscious desire of our own.

I find it encouraging that despite the definitions of recovery or symptom management that some of us have felt peace and calm, even for brief moments, minutes, hours or even (gasp!) days! I had one myself yesterday. I used a home grown catnip (yes CATNIP) dried mix to make tea, just to experiment and see what would happen. All of a sudden the constant swirling thoughts came to a standstill and I was "zoned out" for maybe 2-3 minutes. I thought, NICE!Then fears and doubts returned in full force. I still (choose) to believe there might be just "one more" idea or theory I don't know about which will provide that key to "everything." I'll still have to do the work, but will be confident of having a full toolbox.

[Gromit]

The more I look into it the more I believe I am neurodivergent, however, in seeking an assessment GP's point out the over lap with trauma. When your trauma began from birth how can you tell?
G

[Fraying]

I think neurodivergence can be acquired. The terms "neurodivergent" or "neurodivergence" haven't been around all that long, in the grand scheme of things, and neuroscience is still pretty much a new field of study that's expanding all the time.

It's not unheard of to have terms redefined as our understanding of biology expands and is refined.

I know that I have sensory overload at times. I used to watch a YouTube channel regularly about a girl who is autistic and is nonverbal. I could so relate to some of her stims, but I know I'm not autistic.

I do have migraines, which are also a form of neurodivergence, and my mother and her mother also had migraines, so it's possible that a lot of the dysfunction has its roots in the migraine disease. But in addition to migraine, I have times when life just becomes overwhelming and I need to cocoon. Sounds become too loud, light too bright, touch too - not painful, but uncomfortable.

I could totally see CPTSD as causing neurodivergence.

[Kizzie]

The thing that resonates the most for me about AQND is how I react to too much light, noise, smells, etc. It's sensory overload which I see myself as acquiring because I was so overstimulated growing up. Life was chaotic and I know now all the chemicals flooding my system made me more raw and sensitive. I have a huge startle response, don't like noisy crowded spaces, strong smells...

As BB suggested, this leads me to wonder if we can learn to calm/rewire our systems. Seems like it would take a massive effort daily and even then?      

[Blueberry]

It's not unheard of to have terms redefined as our understanding of biology expands and is refined.

   Or at least with terms in all sorts of areas since I'm not too knowledgeable in scientific areas. If I think about it, it seems a term like "neurodiversity" is fairly expandable with more research in and thought on the topic. e.g. researchers / scientists / people in medical field look at it from trauma angle and then comes  :light bulb: oh, that too.

I have times when life just becomes overwhelming and I need to cocoon. Sounds become too loud

Life often becomes overwhelming for me and I often cocoon. For decades I've really been bothered by people whispering and talking in the background when I'm trying to listen to something else. There are reasons why it could be plain old triggering for me. These days my hearing is not as good as it used to be.

I think though in my case that it may be that I sense / feel too many emotions in the air and that overwhelms me. And then I need to cocoon, really badly. So it's not so much of an overwhelm in physical sensations like smell or sight.

Like Kizzie I have a huge startle response, at times anyway. That has got a lot better   so actually there is hope   and I guess we can calm our systems a bit. otoh once one symptom of mine seems somewhat calmed, it's as if something else rises to the surface that had been held back, mostly unobserved by me, by the improved symptom. Recovery then seems never-ending. Compounded trauma

[Lakelynn]

Blueberry, at the end here you mentioned something: "once one symptom of mine seems somewhat calmed, it's as if something else rises to the surface that had been held back, mostly unobserved by me, by the improved symptom." I feel the exact same way, only I call it "whack-a-mole".

Last summer I had a strange episode when I lost most of my vision for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately this happened at the exact time a truck was backing out of a parking space. I only perceived movement, and pushed myself away from it, landing on the concrete. Ever since then I've been sensitive to light, especially bright light, outside, inside it doesn't matter. (I had a complete workup, nothing conclusive)

As I read through this and learn of others' reactions and strategies, I'm starting to think that age plays a role. We may have pre-existing sensitivities of sorts, startle responses, over stimulation, auditory sensitivities, which may have been masked or managed simply by sheer willpower, especially during working or child rearing years. Then when some of those external demands fall off, the old stuff "comes out to play" again.

When COVID hit, I found myself in bed in a dark room 12 hours a day. Liking it. That urge to cocoon was not evident before 2020. But it has hung on. It appears I'm making a case for acquired, by virtue of our common treatment and disrespect by "caregivers" which has a real potential to emerge later in life in full force.

[Kizzie]

when some of those external demands fall off, the old stuff "comes out to play" again.

   Spot on I think. 

[Fraying]

The thing that resonates the most for me about AQND is how I react to too much light, noise, smells, etc. It's sensory overload which I see myself as acquiring because I was so overstimulated growing up. Life was chaotic and I know now all the chemicals flooding my system made me more raw and sensitive. I have a huge startle response, don't like noisy crowded spaces, strong smells...

As BB suggested, this leads me to wonder if we can learn to calm/rewire our systems. Seems like it would take a massive effort daily and even then?      

Me, too, to all of that! And I think we can learn to rewire ourselves. At least, I'm going to try!

[Fraying]

Blueberry, at the end here you mentioned something: "once one symptom of mine seems somewhat calmed, it's as if something else rises to the surface that had been held back, mostly unobserved by me, by the improved symptom." I feel the exact same way, only I call it "whack-a-mole".

Last summer I had a strange episode when I lost most of my vision for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately this happened at the exact time a truck was backing out of a parking space. I only perceived movement, and pushed myself away from it, landing on the concrete. Ever since then I've been sensitive to light, especially bright light, outside, inside it doesn't matter. (I had a complete workup, nothing conclusive)

As I read through this and learn of others' reactions and strategies, I'm starting to think that age plays a role. We may have pre-existing sensitivities of sorts, startle responses, over stimulation, auditory sensitivities, which may have been masked or managed simply by sheer willpower, especially during working or child rearing years. Then when some of those external demands fall off, the old stuff "comes out to play" again.

When COVID hit, I found myself in bed in a dark room 12 hours a day. Liking it. That urge to cocoon was not evident before 2020. But it has hung on. It appears I'm making a case for acquired, by virtue of our common treatment and disrespect by "caregivers" which has a real potential to emerge later in life in full force.

Oh, yes! As I get older, I get more intolerant to what I call excess stimuli.

My partner often fidgets, which makes noises or vibrates the furniture (that I'm also sitting on) or various other things like that. It didn't bother me as much before as it has in the past few years.

Then again, I'm feeling somewhat abandoned by them in some ways (I wrote about it on my blog, which is not on this site), so I think my irritation at some of the unconscious things they do is magnified.

Regarding the visual blackout, have you ever been diagnosed with migraines? That is a terrifying, but not-too-uncommon, symptom of migraine. You don't have to have pain to have migraine!

[Lakelynn]

Regarding the visual blackout, have you ever been diagnosed with migraines?

As the kids say, DEF (as in definitely!) Decades. Plus, a couple instances of ocular migraine which is some scary stuff. All that seems to blur together now, as so many scary health things have happened.

I can relate to decreased tolerance for fidgeting, little annoyances and stimuli. My strategy of daily time out in a pitch black bedroom has been my ticket to sanity. For people "up there" in age, I think there is a decreased capacity to deal with what I'll call a Tipping Point along the stress continuum. I've reached it.

I used to joke with  my cognitively impaired S and say, "If you remember your name, where you live and your phone, forget the rest of what you don't." It was meant to be reassuring, but not so funny anymore.

My ability to recall preferred words, how to spell those words and how to type has taken a hit. I believe this is due to our need to hold ourselves together for the day-to-day grind (shopping, laundry, housekeeping). We all have finite energy, brain cells and synapses. If we've lived life with less than full healthy brain capacity/development from cPTSD and developed our own dynamics, it follows that we would indeed notice the holes and lapses as we age.

It's worthwhile to have this conversation, get different viewpoints and really take in the fact that YES, we are neuro-diverse, but we are also the strongest people on the planet. The key is acceptance.

[Kizzie]

Interesting, I get ocular migraines too although mine don't hurt, I just get blinking lights in one or both eyes for about 20 minutes and then they subside.

I also take a break midday in a dark bedroom with the fan running for white noise. I find I need that, look forward to it in fact and can do it because I'm retired. I think back to days when I worked and was raising a child and how stressed/ overwhelmed I was by evening.  But like everyone, I had to carry on, push through and get things done so I just did it. Now before I reach the tipping point I take that lovely break and just feel so much better for it. Fortunately my H who led quite a busy, adventure filled life in the Army for four decades is happy to take things easier and enjoy quieter times.

I was just thinking that one benefit of having AQND is that because I was so attuned to everything around me that I was really good at paying  attention to detail. The downside of course was and is that it can be overwhelming.  Also, because I did not like any chaos I developed great organizational skills. The con to that is what seems chaotic to me may just be life happening and it's easier to go with the flow which I have difficulty with.