Time for a Reality Check?

[OwnSide]

Hi.

It's been about a year since I last engaged with the forum, for a variety of reasons. Objective data would suggest that my mental health has gotten worse since then. I started reading some of my old posts, and after I got over the cringe factor of how open I used to be, I thought it might be helpful for me to revisit the forums. I keep trying to figure out why I am having difficulties disproportionate to my circumstances, and one answer I keep getting internally is that I already "figured it out" but refuse to accept the reasons. It's hard to say what the truth is. Certainly I cannot go back and retrieve a comprehensive, unbiased dataset for analysis. Another option is to trust in my feelings, which sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't.

As I recall, I somewhat intentionally stopped processing because I was going to be out of school, and the prospect of having no distractions was daunting. I have since begun a high calibre academic program, a positive step that will prepare me for a career aligned with my values, but also presents the opposite problem (i.e. little time for processing). I still find myself drawn to the process of sorting out my mind, and I know that this work is important for my wellbeing, career, and loved ones. Yet I seem unable to make meaningful progress, caught between remembering when I could admit to trauma and distancing myself from the word now.

I spend an appreciable amount of time engaged in coping strategies that I logically know to be unhelpful and yet continue to indulge. For example, I think to myself that I do not have good enough reasons to feel the way I do. Sometimes I can trick myself into not having the feelings I think I have. It usually catches up with me in the form of symptoms. These symptoms prompt me to attribute some fault to myself or my behaviour for bringing them on in the first place, which is a bit of a funny paradox if you think about it. How can it be my fault I "feel bad" if I deny feeling bad in the first place?

It's all rather silly and I keep thinking that if I could just figure out what's going on with me, I would be able to chart a path forward. And yet, I know that if that were the case, it would have happened by now. Instead I continue to sort of feed my symptoms as a way of proving to myself that I meet some arbitrary standard of experiencing unpleasantness, which is rather irresponsible of me and I should probably try seek out some other forms of validation 

Apologies for the vague description. Hard to validate that.

Another complicating factor is that I (and others) have increasingly suspected that I am on the spectrum, which would perhaps explain why I have difficulty rationalizing contradictory symptoms (ex. some forms of self-care come naturally to me whereas others are a challenge; having both self-compassionate and self-deprecating thoughts) and feel I must present both sides to avoid "lying". I also suspect neurodivergence could help explain why the events I recall as being "traumatic" lack a certain "wow" factor; I genuinely mean this as a statement of fact regarding my lower threshold for being affected and not as a negative comment on the neurodivergent community (you're all super valid).

I think my intention in posting is to cultivate some motivation to be on my own side again. Sometimes I wonder, if feelings don't impact functioning, how significant can they be? I know better, but I continue to choose not to talk about certain things (even though I have supportive people in my life) which allows me to continue getting away with not trying. I do have a therapist, though, which has been helpful.

I am aware it might sound like I'm fishing. Please don't feel pressured to respond or to respond in a certain way. Anyone who replies to me may have to deal with my inability to reciprocate.


All the best,
Ownside

[NarcKiddo]

the events I recall as being "traumatic" lack a certain "wow" factor;

This part of your post really stood out to me, for a couple of reasons.

One was that I was having a discussion yesterday with some other members. One of them has been in contact with a therapist who had observed that many people with CPTSD are first (frequently incorrectly) diagnosed as being on the neurodivergent spectrum. They then try things to help with that, but it doesn't help much or at all because neurodivergence is not the primary issue. However, there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between experiences and behaviours. So while it is entirely possible that you may be neurodivergent, if you are here and you have CPTSD it may be worth you keeping a very open mind about all of this. It sounds like you probably are anyway, but I mention it for what it is worth.

The second is that I very much identify with the trauma not having the "wow" factor. Many of us here have suffered trauma that we regarded as normal. That was just how our family was. Because we were fed, clothed and educated and came from an outwardly respectable family we had no reason to suppose otherwise. Nor did outsiders, so there was never any possibility of external confirmation or validation that what we were experiencing was damaging. The outside world can understand how "Big T Trauma" such as violence would be damaging. "Little t trauma" of emotional abuse is not so easy to label, or even see. Since starting therapy and sharing my story with some others I have come to discover that some aspects of my trauma do, in fact, have a "wow" factor for others. Because it was my normal, I simply had no idea it was "that bad". Which, of course, makes it that much harder to accept that I even have a problem.

[GoSlash27]

OwnSide,
 What I can share with you is that I've often felt the exact same way; like my traumas weren't really "all that bad" and I've blown them up to be more than what they are because I don't feel appropriately 'traumatized' by the clear memories I still have.

 Objectively this is nonsense, certainly in my case and (I'm sure) yours as well. The fact that the memories you hold would be regarded as traumatic by others but not yourself means nothing more than you have dissociated them.

 I have been through every kind of child abuse that you can imagine. Some you might not have even considered. One of the worst was an example of emotional abuse. It is *very* real and *very* damaging.
 
 If you're like me, all of your siblings suffered and most never recovered. Maybe some are no longer with us. That's not normal.
 You have the symptoms. That's not normal.
 You have the comorbidities. That's not normal.

 Your feeling that it wasn't 'that big a deal' is completely normal; a trick that your brain plays on you to keep you safe. Nothing more.

 You are among friends here. I hope you stick around.
Best,
-Slashy

[OwnSide]

Thank you both for the validation.

NarcKiddo, you raise an interesting point about neurodivergence being conflated with trauma. Having read many first-hand accounts and some diagnostic criteria related to neurodivergence (mostly autism, but also ADHD), the core topics seem to overlap heavily with C-PTSD. For example, "deficits in social communication" vs. "interpersonal hardship"; "sensory issues" vs. "hyper/hypo-arousal"; "restricted/repetitive behaviours vs. "avoidance" and "re-experiencing"; and "rejection sensitive dysphoria" vs. "negative self-concept". I have also read some speculation that "diagnosable" neurodivergence is, by definition, a by-product of trauma; people with neurodivergent traits cannot be diagnosed unless they experience clinically significant impairments. So my conceptualization at this point is that everyone has their own individual realm of tolerance, beyond which they become traumatized, and people identifying as neurodivergent tend to have more reactive and sensitive brains that facilitate trauma responses. But then, could such a brain not be forged by early life trauma?

The fact that the memories you hold would be regarded as traumatic by others but not yourself means nothing more than you have dissociated them.

I should clarify: No-one else is identifying my memories as traumatic. It is more that I go back and forth on whether I  think something was traumatic based on how emotionally connected I feel to that moment. I simultaneously remember and forget events such that there really isn't much of a story to tell -- it's more like, oh, someone said something to me and I can't remember exactly what it was or why they said it, but sometimes I can revisit that moment and identify dysregulated emotions in hindsight. But also other times I try to visit that exact same moment it feels distant and inconsequential.

I can rationalize that trauma memories do operate like this. You might have seen some other posts of mine where I really express feelings, and then others (like the post above) are rather impersonal. Hence, I am left to wonder what is "the truth". But there isn't just one. I have literally countless happy and loving memories which I am very lucky to have, but I also get into states where those same memories feel like confinement, and I end up seeking comfort in remembering times I was alone or autonomous. I know that I was loved and that the person who raised me did her best, and at the same time she had to raise me by herself from a young age with her own unresolved trauma on board which is a very stacked set of circumstances. So even logic humbly suggests that something might have been missed.

Still, it's strange that I would find myself here. It's strange that I would insert myself into this space and wax poetic about myself to people who (if I may use your exemplary quote, Slashy) "have been through every kind of child abuse you can imagine". I am grateful for the acceptance I have received thus far but wonder if it comes as a direct result of misleading people about the nature/magnitude of my circumstances simply by being here. If I could articulate things accurately, would I still receive empathy? And how do I accomplish such an endeavour without implicitly self-deprecating and validation-seeking to a community who has more than enough of their own healing to do? 

Anyhow, I've been looking for something to ease the intrusive thoughts so they don't start manifesting with intent, and part of me remembers the little relief cries that used to happen when reading these forums, so I thought coming back might be helpful.

Thank you for your input, and I hope to return the favour at some point 

[Healing Finally]

Hi OwnSide 

I found your post because I did a search on "rejection sensitive dysphoria" and your post popped up.

After reading your whole post I can fully understand, sympathize, and relate.

I found out I have C-PTSD 9 years ago, after doing a search on "narcissist abuse" on the Internet.

There are some of us who had no idea we experienced any emotional trauma or abuse, as we were raised within a dysfunctional family dynamic. 

There is no big T (Trauma) to point to, and yet we have all the symptoms and patterns, actions and reactions of a person who has been traumatized.

It adds another layer to the validity of our own suffering. 

The fact that your mother raised you on her own "with her own unresolved trauma on board" means that you basically experienced generational trauma along with a possible dysfunctional family dynamic (like if she was a narcissist) which will definitely have a negative impact on your brain while growing up.  (Quite frankly being raised with only one parent is trauma in itself, I had to raise my son on my own and understand this.)

I struggle with a reactive and sensitive brain and besides all that I've learned on C-PTSD I am now looking into ADHD because I have it and have taken medication for years; but it was just a few weeks ago I found out how someone with ADHD has trouble regulating their emotions and a lightbulb went off.  Now I'm finding out about "rejection sensitive dysphoria" and OMG I know I have this, why didn't any of my therapists pick up on it? I plan to make a separate post on this soon.

More info here: https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-and-adhd/

Soooo, in regards to - "Anyhow, I've been looking for something to ease the intrusive thoughts so they don't start manifesting with intent, and part of me remembers the little relief cries that used to happen when reading these forums, so I thought coming back might be helpful." - I hope my response helps.
  

[Chart]

Still, it's strange that I would find myself here. It's strange that I would insert myself into this space and wax poetic about myself to people who (if I may use your exemplary quote, Slashy) "have been through every kind of child abuse you can imagine". I am grateful for the acceptance I have received thus far but wonder if it comes as a direct result of misleading people about the nature/magnitude of my circumstances simply by being here.

Bold added by me.
Onwside,
Um sorry, did I just read that right? Are you suggesting that you are some kind of "fake"? For being on this forum?
And leading us on to boot?
Do you not hear that Inner Critic calling doubt on everything you are feeling?

If I could articulate things accurately, would I still receive empathy? And how do I accomplish such an endeavour without implicitly self-deprecating and validation-seeking to a community who has more than enough of their own healing to do? 

Please see what you've written here for the clear sign of cptsd that it is.

Self-deprecating = Inner Critic

Validation-seeking is an act to help the healing process... it's one of the main reasons this forum exists. We need validation because validation was absent during those critical developmental years.

What you are experiencing and feeling are TOTALLY VALID.

Perhaps you have come back to the forum because your doubts were getting the better of you.

This is totally an OKAY reason to come back. We're here for that. We help each other see things from a slightly different perspective. This in vitally important.

I hope I'm being clear. I'm in a pretty bad ef and my brain is fried... But that's another thing... helping others is highly beneficial. So I am actually helping myself by responding supportively to your post.

Does that make me selfish?

And one last thing your ideas have made me think about: Does putting a "number" on the severity of trauma serve any purpose? Imagine next to each Forum pseudo we start putting a number from one to ten "ranking" the severity of their trauma... What would that imply, what would that suggest? What hierarchical concept would that introduce?

No, I say trauma is trauma. (I learned that here!) And I thoroughly believe it now.

Ownside, you need to vent, reflect, demand, whatever you need. The forum and the people on it are here for just that. Maybe explore your second guessing as other aspects of your trauma, but please see it for what it is: Trauma (And NOT an inherent reflection on who you are as a person nor your intrinsic value.)
Big hug!
And thank you!
🙏

[NarcKiddo]

I have a lot of memories that I would once have labelled as happy and loving - to the point that I would have become aggressively defensive if someone had suggested the situations might not have been as happy and loving as I supposed. I am not suggesting that people with trauma can't have happy memories. But in my experience, the happy times I remember were by and large as a result of my having moulded myself to what was required of me so that my mother would be Nice Mother instead of all the other far more unpalatable versions of her. My efforts did not always work, but when they did, and I got Nice Mother, those times were very precious to me and I redoubled my efforts to keep Nice Mother around.

I am also not suggesting that anyone's mother did not do their best or was deliberately evil. Of course some people have suffered that misfortune. My own mother probably did. In my case, I can say that my mother probably did/does love me and probably did her best. The fact that her best was utterly lacking and selfish does not negate the fact it was the best she could produce.

I am sure my abuse (sometimes, even now, I hesitate to use that word) started from my birth. By the time I reached the age where I could formulate memories I can now access, much damage had already been done. I had already realised I was not safe, was not truly loved, and would have to use every tool available to me as an infant to make myself acceptable to my mother. I have had many discussions with my T around memories I do have from childhood and whether I felt sad or angry about how my mother treated me. The more we discuss this, the more I realise that I had already shut down and withdrawn. Defensive shutters had already been employed. There was simply no point in my being sad or angry because nothing would change. It would have been a waste of emotional energy that was far better employed in being what my mother wanted me to be.

When I read comments such as OwnSide wondering whether the trauma feelings are valid or reliable they resonate hugely with me. In my own case, all I have to go on for the first 6 years of my life are the emotional flashbacks. The feelings that something was not quite right. From the age of 6 my life become very memorably unpleasant. Before then everything should have been lovely. I cannot prove that it wasn't - but I KNOW it wasn't.

[Chart]

My first Emdr session involved a memory of a traumatic experience involving violent bullying by neighbor kids. I was six or seven. During the session I was deep in the memory and it was clear as day. I ran home and suddenly I "remembered" at that moment in the past I remember thinking, "I will tell my mother everything that happened, as is normal, BUT I will have to "pay her back" for any support she gives me..." I remember thinking, "Should I not say anything???"

The retrieval of that memory showed me just how insidious trauma can be. Neglect and manipulation are so very hard to pinpoint in a therapeutic session occurring 40 years later.

We're talking about memories of events that at the time were utterly and totally unconscious for everyone.

I now care less and less about "evaluating" severity or trying to justify the behavior of my parents. I feel strongly I just need to do what I need to do to heal.

Along with all the realizations of inappropriate and traumatic behavior of my parents, I more and more recognize MY OWN inappropriate and traumatic behavior. To my mind THIS is the far more important element to analyze and evaluate, ESPECIALLY in relation to my own kids.

A big part of healing for me is SO important because I need to get strong enough to discuss with my kids (eventually, one day... maybe soon...) the things that were difficult for them regarding MY behavior. I want to be able to have the strength to say, "Yes, I did that. It was inappropriate and I'm sorry. Does my validation and acknowledgement help?" I hope that it will. I also know that I have done an infinitely better job than my own parents. Am I objective? Well that's IMPOSSIBLE to know. But I'll do my best and also admit that I might be mistaken with my own kids.

But such humility with my OWN parents I think is a trap to see, observe closely, determine the circumstances BUT AVOID ONCE ITS KNOWN.

Healing takes too much time and energy to constantly be taking care of other people (with my own kids being the sole exceptions).

Am I ranting? Sorry for that. Love and hugs to everyone in the struggle. We'll get there. It only takes ten years!

[dollyvee]

Hi Ownside and HealingFinally,

What you're talking about, that you don't know if the trauma really happened, or can't point to that one thing, is laid out so well in a book I just finished reading called, Believing Me. I am only beginning to realize, and I mean only beginning as in today as I finished the book, that I was gaslit my whole life. My reality wasn't taken into consideration, I wasn't believed or stood up for (or there was a facade of it, but nothing behind that), and made to believe from a child that other peoples' behaviour towards me was somehow my fault. I mean on some level I know that me asking to live with my dad because of mistreatment wasn't my fault and I wasn't abandoning my mother like she said, but everyone just sort of went along with it. They didn't say much or tried to talk me down when I got angry about certain behaviours. So, I can recognize how difficult it is to trust yourself when that was the environment you grew up in. And it's so difficult because you keep going back to these people thinking that they're going to get it, and they never do, or maybe replaying the same "good girl" pattern, hoping that it's going to solve things.

I'm rambling now, but I just wanted to say I hear you. Patrick Teahan also has some videos on neurodivergence and trauma I believe on his youtube channel. I've been learning quite a bit from his videos.

Sending you support,
dolly

[OwnSide]

I'm laughing at myself now because I remember how hard I worked to intellectualize that post so it wouldn't have any embarrassing feely bits in it, and now I'm still cringing at it because it doesn't even read like a real person? 

Anyhow.

Um sorry, did I just read that right? Are you suggesting that you are some kind of "fake"? For being on this forum?
And leading us on to boot?

  

I think the argument I was trying to make was that I lack some sort of arbitrary reference level that would allow me to contextualize my experience within The Grand Scheme of Things People Go Through and therefore accurately report on myself. Because if I could achieve that, I would have an objective account of my subjective experience that no-one could argue with or invalidate. Right?

Ahhhh...

Anyway, thank you for validating, Chart. It helps. And it's encouraging to hear that you are trying to heal for your kids! Wishing you luck there

I have a lot of memories that I would once have labelled as happy and loving - to the point that I would have become aggressively defensive if someone had suggested the situations might not have been as happy and loving as I supposed. I am not suggesting that people with trauma can't have happy memories. But in my experience, the happy times I remember were by and large as a result of my having moulded myself to what was required of me so that my mother would be Nice Mother instead of all the other far more unpalatable versions of her. My efforts did not always work, but when they did, and I got Nice Mother, those times were very precious to me and I redoubled my efforts to keep Nice Mother around.

Interesting... I think I recognize some facets of my situation in what you've written here. I'm having a hard time explaining it in a way I'm comfortable posting (like everything else), but I appreciate the information. It would perhaps explain the dichotomy in my memories.


Thanks everyone for the support, I look back on it many times   

[Chart]

 

[Whoknows]

Hi OwnSide, I found a YouTube video "Seeing Through Your Own Illusions", that may be a source of light on your preoccupation. It is for me.