Exploring Shame

[Hope67]

Hi Armee,
I have tried that exercise a couple of times now - I did it yesterday.  I decided that I couldn't leave the container with a member of my FOO as I didn't think they would know what to do with it, so instead I let it go up in a rocket into the sky.  It felt satisfying in my imagination.  I tried it a second time with some shame connected to things that had happened when I was at school, and left another container of shame at the door of one of my teachers.  I think that teacher might not be living anymore, but in my imagination, she was there.  It felt good to leave it there with her. 

Armee, I hope that the shame that popped up lately for you in therapy is something you are able to process/deal with ok.  Sending you compassion and support with it 

Hope 

[Armee]

Thank you Hope I really appreciate the description of how you did it and the decisions you made about how to do it. That's super helpful.

And thanks for the hope that I'll be able to process the recent shame that came up. I think I will be able to. Sometimes I need to write things down and as I write them the connection becomes clear as to where that shame popped up from...because it feels as if it is something about the present moment, but really it's a piece of the past. I wrote down what happened around that shame last night and I saw that it made perfect sense for what piece I need to process next.   

[Chart]

What this makes me think of is the recurring theme (and importance) of creativity and imagination in the healing process.
Thanks Hope!

[Hope67]

Creativity and imagination - those are inspiring words Chart.  Thanks to you for phrasing it in that way.   

[NarcKiddo]

I don't really understand the whole concept of shame. I don't mean that I don't have any. I think I probably have lots of it, but I'm not sure I understand it as shame. My T has often asked if I struggle with shame and I usually say "no" or "I don't know" and change the subject.

So I am really interested in reading this thread.

Shame I definitely know about surrounds body issues. My mother mocked my ugly feet and my crooked teeth and my lanky hair and my fatness and - well, you name it. When she wasn't mocking she was actively working to fix these faults. I am very aware of my physical appearance and even though I do not any more subscribe to my mother's views of how I should present myself, I undoubtedly feel a need to control how I look.

I have a huge fear of having any kind of spotlight put on me. I guess that is tied up with shame and a fear that I will be found wanting. Best to hide in the background.

I fact check things I say. I will double-check the meaning of words I might use, or their spelling, despite the fact I know perfectly well already. If someone tells me something interesting I may report it back to my husband. He will then ask questions I did not ask them. He is just interested, but I get angry and defensive when he does that. It makes me feel like I should have obtained the information he is interested in and that I am lacking because I did not think to do so. I guess that is shame?

I'm scared of making mistakes. A recent step forward for me was when a relative emailed about me being ill and asked if I would like them to send me some cartoons to cheer me up. I said "yes", assuming they were going to email. Nothing arrived and I complained about them to my T. Not just about that - they had said some annoying things, but anyway I criticised them. The very next day a book of cartoons arrived by mail. My immediate reaction was a huge wave of guilt that I had doubted them. They'd gone to all that trouble and instead of just being patient I had been rude about them to my T. That sort of thought cycle could rumble on for days - but on this occasion I actually managed to tell myself it was a mistake on my part, and no harm had been done, so just forget about it. I am supposing that might be tied up with shame, too.

And the immediate thought I had when considering the interesting exercise of putting the shame in a container and returning it was - but what if the person opens it? What if they know it is from me? They might think it is my shame even though it isn't. Even if I buried it or dropped it in the ocean or sent it to space - what if an earthworm or a fish or an alien opened the container and saw all this stuff labelled "NK's SHAME". I mean, my  logical brain knows it would not be labelled as such because it is not mine. But my emotional brain ignores all that.

[Papa Coco]

I can share my experience with shame. I don't know if it will resonate with you, but I can at least share my own experience.

Currently, I am deeply entrenched in the book Letting Go: The Pathway to Surrender, by Dr. David Hawkins. On pages 29 to 31, he lists the Emotional states that we put ourselves into on a list from lowest vibration to highest. The lowest is Shame. He describes those parts of us that continue to live in shame like this:
 
Shame (20 points out of 1000): Characterized by Humiliation, as in "hanging your head in shame." It is traditionally accompanied by banishment. It is destructive to health and leads to cruelty toward self and others.

In my MDMA experience, I had to come to terms with how much fear I had of getting into trouble, or causing trouble for my facilitator, or of having a negative experience under the medication. I was worried I'd have a heart attack or something while in their care, they'd have to call for emergency services, and my being under medication would get them into trouble. THAT is shame. I was worried that by doing something good for myself I'd hurt someone else. (That's how I was raised. If I ever got anything I wanted, I'd later find out that I'd hurt the person who had to get it for me. I was always blamed for the unhappiness of my FOO. I was always ashamed of myself: either for being the only kid on the block without a decent bike or for getting a new bike and finding out that getting the bike hurt someone. Shame. I lived in shame all the time).
 
My facilitator said that shame is likely the underlying reason I resisted the medication for so long. I was ashamed of myself for spending mine and Coco's money on my selfish desire to be healthy. I always am ashamed of the money I spend on myself because I feel like it's Coco's money too, and she doesn't spend as much on her health as I do on mine. When I was a Catholic school boy, living in the shame of the sexual abuse I was enduring, I was what Hawkins describes in his words on shame. I did walk with my head down. I did try to not make eye contact with anyone. I did plot ways to take my own life without bringing shame onto my family. They were good. I was bad. I had to make it look like an accident so they wouldn't be ashamed of me in my death like they were in my life.

Shame is what drives my most common fear triggers. The thing I'm the most afraid of in life is becoming the embodiment of shame again.

I used to worry about losing my home due to my financial struggles of most of my life. I knew then that living on the streets wasn't what I was terrified of, but what scared me to my core was knowing that if I lost my job or my home, my FOO would all get together and say "We all knew this idiot couldn't manage his life on his own." I was TERRIFIED of being ashamed of having lost my home. I was more terrified of being ashamed of myself than I was of having to live in a cardboard box. 

From the very beginning of my life, shame has been the driver for the largest percentage of my fear triggers. My darkness resides in shame. Fear of shame. Fear of being myself. Fear of hurting others by becoming a burden on them, or fear of being thrown out in the weeds for being too embarrassing to be seen with.

The book is proving to be just what I needed to read right now. It came into my life on the day I needed it and was ready for it. I'm learning how to lift myself up out of the resonating vibrations of living in the energy of shame to living now in the energies of acceptance, joy and gratitude.

Shame will always be down there at the bottom of the list of emotions, but I don't have to live inside of it anymore. It can be a nuisance that tries to grab at me, but it doesn't have to be the air that I breathe anymore like it used to be. With enough practice, I can learn to bat shame away in the way that I now bat mosquitos away from my face in the evening out by the firepit. Shame will always be there, but I don't have to live inside of it anymore. I can deal with it as it comes up because I'm letting go of it.

Shame has always been my most dangerous nemesis. I'm more worried about being ashamed of failing in life than I am of living in a cardboard box. My narcissist sister had no physical power over me. ALL her power over me was emotional. She knew how to lock me into my own shame and make me squirm. She had me doing self-harm so often that it's literally a miracle I survived multiple attempts at ending my own life. By letting go of shame (which is done progressively, not as if by an on/off switch), she's lost nearly all her power over me. If she can't shame me, there isn't much else she can do. I'm stronger, faster, smarter, and better looking than her. (I added the better-looking part just to make myself chuckle a little. Laughter is a powerful pain killer).

Shame is my past. I used to have nightmares that I was back in Catholic school. The truth is that my nightmares were not so much about Catholic school as they were about my truest fear of having to live deep inside the bubble of shame again. Having moments of shame is no fun. But living within the vibration of shame 24x7x365 is what I just can't ever let myself do again.

[Chart]

I believe that shame is probably the most insidious of all the co-morbidities of Cptsd.

[Cascade]

Wow, I'm so grateful for everyone's contributions!  This is a great discussion for me and really helps to know others are struggling with shame as much as I am.

Hi everyone,
I really appreciate the things that have been written in this thread on shame.  I had started to read Bradshaw's book about 'Healing the Shame that Binds Me' but I must admit that I have only got half-way through, and have decided not to complete reading it at this point, and have turned to another book by Christy Gibson called 'The Modern Trauma Toolkit: Nurture your post-traumatic growth with personalized solutions' - and I have just read something relevant about 'shame' on p.97 of that book, which I thought I'd share here, incase it's helpful to anyone:

It's called:
"Let's Practice - The Container.
Part of this exercise is learning to trust your instincts about what you need.  And part of it is imagining leaving this box of shame behind, knowing that it's not yours."

Hope, I'm so glad to hear about your success!  My therapist had me do this a little while ago and I threw the container into the middle of the ocean.  I can't even remember now what I put in there! 

Also, I am having a really hard time reading Bradshaw's book, which I finally did order.  My brain is having a hard time with the way it's organized, and there are just a lot of biblical references.  I'm sorry but the healing world does not revolve around the institution of Christianity.  Make your points another way.  [end rant]

And thanks for the hope that I'll be able to process the recent shame that came up. I think I will be able to. Sometimes I need to write things down and as I write them the connection becomes clear as to where that shame popped up from...because it feels as if it is something about the present moment, but really it's a piece of the past. I wrote down what happened around that shame last night and I saw that it made perfect sense for what piece I need to process next.

Armee, way to go with your writing and processing and identifying the next piece of processing!  . I hope it's going well.

What this makes me think of is the recurring theme (and importance) of creativity and imagination in the healing process.

Chart, we definitely need these tools, yes, especially in the face of such an insidious beast as shame. 

I don't really understand the whole concept of shame. I don't mean that I don't have any. I think I probably have lots of it, but I'm not sure I understand it as shame. My T has often asked if I struggle with shame and I usually say "no" or "I don't know" and change the subject.

So I am really interested in reading this thread.

And the immediate thought I had when considering the interesting exercise of putting the shame in a container and returning it was - but what if the person opens it? What if they know it is from me? They might think it is my shame even though it isn't. Even if I buried it or dropped it in the ocean or sent it to space - what if an earthworm or a fish or an alien opened the container and saw all this stuff labelled "NK's SHAME". I mean, my  logical brain knows it would not be labelled as such because it is not mine. But my emotional brain ignores all that.

NarcKiddo, I am still struggling, too, with understanding and seeing all the applications of shame in my life.  I really appreciate you opening up about what shame looks like for you.  I found your reaction to the container of shame so interesting and heartbreaking at the same time.  Hmm... using some of Chart's creativity suggestion, what would your emotional self think of burning the box to ash dust?  I know it might still feel identifiable, and that's okay!  Maybe try a different safety activity. 

Currently, I am deeply entrenched in the book Letting Go: The Pathway to Surrender, by Dr. David Hawkins. On pages 29 to 31, he lists the Emotional states that we put ourselves into on a list from lowest vibration to highest. The lowest is Shame.

Papa Coco, yep, this definitely resonates (with very little vibration, though, lol)!  Thank you for sharing your deeply personal stories about how shame manifests for you, mostly with fear.  I guess the thing that is motivating me to explore shame is the thought that it is causing harm to myself, which is the last thing I want to do.


I have one small experience from yesterday's therapy session to share.  I'm at a point of cognitive and emotional dissonance.  My overall life goal is to live in inner peace.  I need to reconcile that desire for a life of inner peace with my current situation of:

• processing past trauma being anything but peaceful, and
• feeling shame (via the Inner Critic berating myself) about living a peaceful life.  [God, this doesn't make one bit of sense!  Why would I do this to myself?!  It doesn't fit with my values of love or inner strength.]

Okay, so the first counterpoint is true and can't be changed.  Processing trauma is just gonna suck.  But I don't have to accept the second one.  Leave shame at the feet of others, where it belongs.  Or in a container far away to decompose, if we want to be fully compassionate and not blame anyone in particular.  Just as long as it's not with me!

I deserve a life of inner peace.
I deserve to live my life as I choose.

Thanks for reading all this,
   -Cascade

[AphoticAtramentous]

Shame I definitely know about surrounds body issues. My mother mocked my ugly feet and my crooked teeth and my lanky hair and my fatness and - well, you name it. When she wasn't mocking she was actively working to fix these faults. I am very aware of my physical appearance and even though I do not any more subscribe to my mother's views of how I should present myself, I undoubtedly feel a need to control how I look.

I have a huge fear of having any kind of spotlight put on me. I guess that is tied up with shame and a fear that I will be found wanting. Best to hide in the background.

I fact check things I say. I will double-check the meaning of words I might use, or their spelling, despite the fact I know perfectly well already. If someone tells me something interesting I may report it back to my husband. He will then ask questions I did not ask them. He is just interested, but I get angry and defensive when he does that. It makes me feel like I should have obtained the information he is interested in and that I am lacking because I did not think to do so. I guess that is shame?

Thanks for sharing these experiences NarcKiddo. Your last paragraph here especially was helpful in describing a phenomenon I haven't been able to put into words myself.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[Chart]

I deserve a life of inner peace.
I deserve to live my life as I choose.

Oh boy... oh yeah! Indeed. This resonates deeply.
Thanks, Cascade

[Cascade]

Hi Chart,
How did you know I needed to come back here to explore shame some more today?!  You and all of us definitely deserve inner peace and to live life as we choose.

Without more details about what prompted this for you, I'll just say I hope you are finding some measure of inner peace.  Also, I think that choices are probably the most power we can have in this life.  For me, it's hard to remind myself that I am sovereign over myself and deserve to have that power to make my own choices.  I hope your resonance brings you some of your own power to live the life you choose.
   -Cascade

[Cascade]

Hi group,
I feel intense shame for lashing out recently and letting my inner critic take over with feeling like a gullible fool.  It wasn't even really about me or the current friendship.  But I sure made it about me, though!

I have to be careful about expressing my shame without it coming from the inner critic.  Is that even possible?!  Hmmm, what are we supposed to do at this point?  Hmm.  Maybe ask what the inner critic thinks I need to be protected from?  Right now, the answer is, "Everything!"  LOL


Maybe I'll come back to this a little later.  Everyone's comments, pokes, prods, and nudges in good directions are welcome.
   -Cascade

[Chart]

Cascade and everyone,
I'm learning in therapy that I have 3 "layers": The body, the emotions, the intellect. They all interact, but the element that connects the three is what could be called the "soul". This is the center, the being that is me, my true inner "self". My therapist has explained that this inner spark is indestructible and eternal.

The point is that I can come to this center from any of the three layers of my "exterior" self. However, when the emotions go against the body, which in turn can go against the intellect, there will always be redundancy, there will always be backtracking. If we observe our emotions intellectually, this is limited. If we look at our body with only our emotions, again this is limited.

Shame is an emotion that can be viewed intellectually or experienced in our bodies, and we can have emotions that produce other emotions. So we turn around and around, especially a few days later  when we wake up and start seeing the situation from another perspective.

There is nothing inherently wrong with doing this, but my therapist has suggested looking at each individual situation from my true Center, my spark. Emotions, physicality, intelligence, will waver, change, come and go. But my Center is eternal. So when one of my three layers "acts up", one solution is to look at this layer ONLY from the perspective of the eternal center.

I'm currently trying this. I open a dialogue with the overwhelming emotions I have through my eternal Center. (Cultivating this eternal Center is also an interesting idea and is coming slowly as well... but I full know it's there, feel it, and receive immense comfort from it already).

I also look at my body from this eternal Center. Intellect is the same.

This eternal Center seems ALWAYS to have the right way of "reacting" to my three layers. I find it easy and fluid.

My therapist seems to me to be combining all the elements of my dysfunction due to trauma in a way that not only makes sense to me, but also seems to be working. All this is a metaphor, as usual. But it's more than a tool. It's a concept that seems to be supported all over the place. It's just a question of bringing things into place in the right order, and placing things in their proper position.

We are all the center of the Universe.

[Cascade]

Yep, love it!  💗

This is a great reminder to connect with our true, higher self.  I know what I need if I can just calm down, connect, and listen.  Easier said than done sometimes.  Thanks, Chart, for putting it into such eloquent words!
   -Cascade

[dollyvee]

Hi all,

Coming back to this thread after reading a little more in John Bradshaw's book about shame and the inner critic. He suggests that a lot of our shame is bound up in internalized parental voices who were also shame bound and passed it along to us because they were unable to deal with their own emotions. It's also interesting that I feel more inclined to deal with the fantasy, or wanting the fantasy of a parental bond, than dealing with these voices.

I very much feel "something" around making mistakes, which I think I'm slowly starting to uncover is shame. It's like a freeze/badness feeling, but as NK mentioned, I don't think I could've outright identified it as shame.

I'm also interested in doing more of his exercises around uncovering the inner critic as I understand the ICr shows up when we're not supposed to do something, and is an extension of those voices which would criticize (shame) us for doing it. For me, like Bradshaw suggests, I think these voices are quite unconscious and automatic.

Sending everyone support,
dolly