dollyvee's recovery journal

[AphoticAtramentous]

Thanks for sharing those quotes dollyvee.

"The child, by incorporating the parent's voice, is taking on the parent's subjective, and in the case of a shame-based parent, distorted viewpoint toward him or herself."

I'm hopefully processing it right, my brain is a little borked right now. But it made me realise even more how sinister the inner critic is, in that it presents itself as our abusers, but without the actual true root of the criticism, without the parts that need attending to. So we're left with nothing but the critical parts and with no idea what they need or why they're here.

TW: Detailed example of inner critic
Like for example... if one's mother was critical of say... some music you composed, it might have been because she had some undiagnosed auditory processing issue. But the thing is, YOU don't, and you're just left with the inner critic that tells you that your music is bad. Not sure if that makes any sense, but it's something I realised from what you've written here. In the end, the critiques become baseless and meaningless, lost in translation over the generations. Eventually you get to a point where you have no idea what even started the criticisms because it goes back 3-4 grandparents ago.
TW END
I hope that's not too off base from your writing.

Thanks for sharing those various exercises too. I hope they have been helpful for you, I know inner critic work can be so exhausting sometimes though.

...how the space around me when I start to feel good things immediately gets filled up/surrounded by negative family/messages and I wonder if this has to do with those internalized voices.

I get that... our brains can be so mean sometimes, wishing you can enjoy some good things without that background interference.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[dollyvee]

Hi AA - I think what you're saying is that an inner critic in this sense doesn't have an exile behind it that it's protecting, but is just the voice of the parent (and something likely carried on from their own parents)? So, that exile would soften the critic because, essentially, it was doing what it does and being critical to protect you in some way from something you experienced? So, I think with your m reference, let's say it doesn't matter what kind of music you produced, there would always be something in her that made her say it was bad (with no basis in reality) because that was likely the kind of criticism she received from her mother/parents in an effort to her to preform/be this type of person. Likely, it originated somewhere and for some reason, but as you said, the roots of the criticism can be lost. I actually went back and reread the part of the Jay Earley book that deals with inner critics as legacy burdens and he writes:

"A part can acquire a legacy burden by taking on some aspect of a parent or of an entire line of ancestors that you didn't have direct experience of or even know about. However, with Inner Critics, you usually do have direct experience of the parent's behavior."

"A legacy burden might not only come from a parent, but also from an entire ancestral line. Maybe your father pushed and judged you about not working hard enough, and maybe his father did the same to him, and perhaps his father's father and the entire line of male ancestors were burdened by this extreme need to overwork. Each of these men probably had different life circumstances and motivations for their overworking, but the essential pattern is similar. An ancestral burden like this can have a profound effect on you without your being aware of it."

Earley PhD, Jay;  Weiss, Bonnie. Freedom from Your Inner Critic (p. 88). Sounds True. Kindle Edition.

He talks about doing an unburdening with that part. However, I'm not sure what the method is when the part won't communicate with you.

_____________________________

I just want to put this down here because I am just realizing how much it has been bothering me on some level. I've noticed that I'm really susceptible to peoples' suggestions. If it's someone I like or value, I will immeadiately call into question what I know to be "true." NARM t is saying it's to preserve the relationship. For example, a friend was over and we were having a drink when she said, what's that on the water? I responded with a rig, and doubtfully, she said, I've never seen one here before. It stuck with me so much so that the next day I even thought of googling natural gas/oil rigs and where I live. Her doubt had me call my own reality, and what I can see with my own eyes, into question. Now, what has been bothering me is I was talking to NARM t a little while ago and something about my gm came up being loving and she said, what if it's true now? As in after she passed? And it's been whirling away in the back of my mind - am I right? Is what she saying valid with all the guilt underneath it.

We talked about my m sabotaging my first experience in therapy by playing the victim and playing the "you think I'm a bad mother" card when I brought her in to talk about how I felt. Of course my feelings and point of view were obliterated, and again, it was me, which led to anger down the line and trying to get my m to understand but, as I was explaining to t, the other layer has/had always been my gm saying, she's your mother, you have to forgive her. So, as I was relaying this this morning in my mind, probably spurred by validation from t (who said that there were a lot of layers), it made me think of what she had said previously that felt like an excuse for her behaviour (what if it's true now?), and I thought of the psychological reports I read where her story/reality changed as it needed to to support what she wanted, and I just felt so upset that I could be swayed by t's suggestion. Though I don't know if upset is the right word, not sad for myself, but maybe vindicated and that what I thought was true all along was true, and another person didn't believe me? It's just such a familiar place to give up that reality (and exhausting to defend it all the time). It's something to do with this very early idea of having to be an amenable person I think.

As a sort of aside/maybe related, I had mixed feelings towards the "being right" part of the distorted thinking relating to toxic shame that I posted yesterday. I understand that to always be right isn't healthy, and we need to be able to take on other's viewpoints. However, like with the above, it was almost a survival mechanism and a way to defend my reality/experience when no one else would believe me. There's also something around the fact that my gf always had to be right and everyone else was "hopeless" who didn't listen (DOOMED as I understand it). Maybe this is in line more with the distorted thinking Bradshaw was writing on.

I also relayed to t how when I was graduating, I tried on my dress that I had made, and had been working out (I guess was trying to feel good about myself) and my gm said to me, when I was your age (or when I was young I had a 22 inch waist (or something along those lines). It's always stuck with me, even though I couldn't put my finger on it at the time as being an awful thing to say. I guess I'm just feeling anger (?) at the women and people in my life that do this. No wonder I can't stand petty jealousy from other people. It's having people in your life that would just take things from you. Of course I want to fight when these things come up, and can't just "let them go." It's like having too give up yourself/not stand up for yourself all the time.

[dollyvee]

I've been thinking more about my m sabtoaging my therapy experience. Well, more like thinking about it and then thinking about something else. I think it's a lot to process.

When t first said, how do you feel about your m sabotaging your therapy, I had to ask her what she meant, and maybe it's more my initial react to her saying it and my response that I've been thinking about. It didn't even register that this is what had happened. I think I'm just so used to it, or was so used to it, and it was my experience that my m (and gm and gf) took things away from me. There was no space for me in that room, and I sat there with care, trying to work things out with someone who took all the attention. I can also see that I went on for many years after trying to convince this person to see me and have them sabotage my efforts for me. Did it look like malicious sabotage? No, they played the victim and I felt like I had to take care of them, and take responsibility for them. I was told that it was my fault for "abandoning my m" after her and my sf's treatment of me and I took that to heart.

I think I tried to rescue my m for a long time (hoping she's leave my sf and I'd have that connection) because a part of me couldn't face being alone. Maybe if I was alone, I'd have to face all the feelings of it being my fault (the shame) and that I just needed her in my life. I also feel like I've been aware of this, I've talked about it, I just never saw it as her trying to sabotage my efforts at therapy. Somehow, somewhere inside (I believed) they are helpless and I need to help them. I wrote the last sentence first without the words in parenthesis - interesting.

I see situations in my life where I am trying to convince someone of something that they think I'm at "fault" for and I explain that I'm standing up for myself. I don't think I should feel like I'm standing up for myself.

[Chart]

I see situations in my life where I am trying to convince someone of something that they think I'm at "fault" for and I explain that I'm standing up for myself. I don't think I should feel like I'm standing up for myself.

I agree DV. The question for us all is how do we change this habit?
It makes me think of the line in Hamlet, Hamlet says to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern: "There is nothing either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so." (Act 2, scene 2).

And already I'm scared that what I have written here could be interpreted as a "criticism" because there is an implication that we are responsible for how we interpret everything, thus "we" are at fault.

And that's not what I am intending to say, even though there is a kind of truth in this idea...

DV, I will absolutely delete this post if you find it offensive in any way. I hope that's not the case, but I have to be honest, I'm scared of just that.

[dollyvee]

Chart - it's interesting that you're mentioning criticism because I wanted to go back to the Exloring Shame thread and add some of Bradshaw's thoughts on criticism. When I read it, it really stood out and I have been thinking about criticism in my journal and how much criticism shows up in my family. He says that criticism is the way to interpersonally transfer shame onto another person and makes the distinction between feedback (feedback is high quality sensory based observation without interpretation) and criticism (a subjective interpretation based on one person's experience and grounded in that person's personal history. As such, it is not very useful). What's also interesting, as someone who grew up in a NPD household, is that narcissists can't stand their shame, so they try to transfer it onto other people and the brunt of this for me happened I think through criticism. What's also interesting is that he talks about the choice to take that criticism on and says, "the main principle in handling criticism is NEVER defend yourself. If you defend yourself, you're taking on the toxic shame," then lists varying strategies for handling critics.

tl:dr I don't think you're being critical at all, but asking a question as you, like me, are probably accustomed to always being criticised for your actions where the only thing you could do was try to defend yourself and your reality (or not, if one dissociates). I took this stuff (their criticism on what I "must" have done) and tried to defend myself thinking that surely they could be reasonable and see the validity of what I was saying, for example, because in my mind, I needed that relationship. But it was never about if something was real, or true, or good or bad; it was about them not wanting to feel their shame in the world and me being the proxy they needed to transfer that shame, which was done under the guise of this is because we love you; you know we love you.

As a child, I don't think you really have any other choice. (So, you have your child-consciousness where you would be at fault and feel shame as a result.) As an adult, to answer your question, I think we do. I have a choice with what and how to engage with criticism for example. Does it mean that we/I are at "fault" for doing/not doing so? No, because we are accepting our limits (and not taking everything personally), which is acceptance of our own healthy shame. Humans make mistakes, we all make mistakes. I think I've just been trying to prove what kind of person I am because I've taken on criticism at some point that was given to me by someone trying to offload their personal shame. And then I could go on about how this was then held in place by, "I'm selfish if I don't do it; I'm not loving them if I don't do it." But again, all to protect the relationship.

_______________________________________

I've finished Healing the Shame That Binds You. That in itself I feel is an accomplishment haha. There's more that I want to write about criticism and shame, and how people try to transfer their toxic shame to you via criticism (growing up with narcissists anyone?).

But, I went back and started rereading it and was struck by this:

"At about 15 months a child begins to develop musculature. He needs to establish a balance between "holding on and letting go". The earliest muscle development focuses on gaining balance when standing up and walking. This triggers the desire to roam and explore and in order to roam and explore, the child needs to separate from his primary caregivers."

I feel like the past few months for me the idea of independence/dependence has come up in variety of forms. I've moved to a "grown-up" flat it feels like, started to get rid of things (letting go), but have also had some ideas/feelings/experiences come up around letting feelings and relationships go where, when I expressed this, it showed up as pain in an acupuncture point related to genetic inheritence (generational legacy burdens), and also related to independence and fathering the body. The other thing that has come up is a dream where I needed to stand up for myself (having independence) and the idea of seeking protection (dependence) in relationships. Maybe it's a reach, but I've been having a lot of hip pain and muscle stiffness the past few months, relating to walking and moving.

He goes on to say that the psychosocial task for this stage of development is also related to striking a balance between autonomy and shame and doubt. Growing up in my family, it the underlying message I think was independence is bad, autonomy is bad, and therefore, there is an exaggerated sense of doubt and/or toxic shame when these ideas (feelings?) arise in relation to someone else.

He writes that the terrible twos are stubborn and they want to do it their way (but within sight of their caregiver - having peermission) and can throw temper tantrums and have intense anger when thwarted.

The child needs to know that the interpersonal bridge will not be destroyed by his new urge for doing things his own way. This is interesting because it has come up recently that I was concerned about losing the interest of someone when I needed to step back and do things for myself. I also feel like I'm constantly having to give up myself for other people. This feels like something I am still dealing with: if I do this for myself, if I have time for myself, my relationships with other people will be destroyed.

[dollyvee]

And not to go on, but to clarify this idea because I think it's important to all of us, that I think this is what I was trying to articulate in a response to someone on the forum about what their therapist said to them a while ago. When we are shame based, everything is going to feel like a criticism because we take things personally, and I feel this because I have done and do the same things myself. So, when people offer us feedback or criticism, I think it hits this shame place, and, as Bradshaw said again, we probably get defensive because we are already so critical of ourselves. So, I think it's a good thing to articulate what is criticism and what/when it feels like the transferring of shame (which can be explored with the person giving it using his methods - clouding, clarifying, confronting, columboing, confessing, confirming, comforting) and what is actually feedback. I think, for me, it's going to be about noticing the reactivity as becoming aware that shame is present. I've actually tried using the "shame alarm" and touching my left ear lobe when I start to feel shame come up (when feeling bad about myself or thinking about imagined criticism from other people) as there's something going on here that I need to pay attention to.

[AphoticAtramentous]

I've finished Healing the Shame That Binds You. That in itself I feel is an accomplishment haha.

Congratz on finishing the book. Definitely an accomplishment!

Your writing about autonomy and shame makes a lot of sense.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[dollyvee]

Thank you AA 

Bradshaw writes that:

Shame is internalized when one is abandoned. Abandonment is the precise term to describe how one loses one's authentic self and ceases to exist psychologically. Children cannot know who they are without reflective mirrors. Mirroring is done by one's primary caretakers and is crucial in the first years of life. Abandonment includes the loss of mirroring. Parents who are shut down emotionally (all shame-based parents) cannot mirror and affirm their children's emotions. Then, of course, where there is this sense of shame, there is this doubt.

Since the earliest period of our life was preverbal, everything depended on emotional interaction. Without someone to reflect our emotions, we had no way of knowing who we were.

So, with a narcissistic parent, busy parent etc, I can see how shame can be created (?)/ come at such an early age. It's not even that someone is shaming or critisizing you, it's just not being seen, mirrored, told that you exist that creates an inherent sense that you're not good enough/worthy. I can see this showing up being around other people in the sense that I feel like I don't have anything to "give back." What I do try to "give back" I think is the "nice" version, or what I was told I was supposed to be/look like etc etc. No negativity, no anger, which is not real, or not my authentic self because my authentic self wasn't mirrored and then was "corrected" and essentially critisized.

Badshaw also writes that:

Besides lack of mirroring, abandonment includes the following:
Neglect of developmental dependency needs
Abuse of any kind
Enmeshment into the covert or overt needs of the parents or the family system needs

The last one reflects what happened between my gm and I, and my gf as well. I had a really quite astonishing dream with my gm this week where we had had sex and I woke up feeling repulsed, but also "fooled" or bamboozeled. I don't know the right word. Like here it is, this is what was actually going on under the feeling of "love." I brought this up with NARM t and she suggested that we had been talking about wanting, and now this is not wanting. Or, I wanted something, but I didn't want that. Consciously, I don't know how much I can ascribe this to my thinking brain. Or, it didn't seem to process/have access to another part of my brain. Looking at this now, it feels like there is a part of me that will shut down, or push things away, that I might actually want because I fear how they will turn out (and they will turn out like my dream). It doesn't really feel like it's something that I have access to though, just that I'm aware that I will push things away, but can't/haven't/don't connect it to the dream. I think it's buried so deeply because I needed to protect this relationship.

Speaking of enmeshment, I do wonder to what extent my gm has put herself in the place in other relationships in my life. For example, the part that felt/feels it has to stay away from "boys" because that's what my gm said (in a way? in a round about way? "Don't make the same mistakes I made and get pregnant at 17," etc). Like I'm doing something wrong by wanting a relationship (or even dating or having fun?), and that maybe it's been insinuated that I'm abandoning her if I do do those things? Again, it doesn't feel like any of this is conscious.

I don't know if this is for everyone, but I watched Love is Blind UK and happened to read some of the reddit comments about Jasmine's mother before I actually saw the episode where she meets the fiance. Everyone was freaking out over her behaviour. However, when I saw the episode, I thought that's not bad, that seems on par with "normal." I don't think my gm would have gone through my phone like jasmine's mom did, but I do feel like there would have been a lot of guilt around my choices and feeling like I wasn't "doing" enough for the family. (It's funny that writing this now, I was struck with the (shadow) realization that I have a feeling about other women playing the victim card to manipulate situations around me with other people, and while I may have seen the "jealous" side of this in relation to my mother, I hadn't seen the victim side in relation to my grandmother in regards to other people if this makes any sense). What's feels very familiar from Jasmine and her mother's relationship is how her mother stressed that she would tell her everything and be a part of here kids life etc. Maybe it was just the entitlement and the right she felt she had to do those things.

[Chart]

Dollyvee, your posts are so rich, complex, curvaceous and put my brain in so many directions at once. I often read what you have written and it percolates for hours subconsciously. I am mesmerized by your flow-of-consciousness analysations. Often I'm so tired my brain gets highly annoyed at what you have written as it has then to try and "sort it all out". But I keep annoying my brain and don't feel guilty. My brain spends most of its time annoying me in return so I feel it's just

I wanted to comment on a couple things. But one of them I lost the place where you talked about it and now I'm even doubting that it was you and not another thread that I made the link... Anyway...

The last one reflects what happened between my gm and I, and my gf as well. I had a really quite astonishing dream with my gm this week where we had had sex and I woke up feeling repulsed, but also "fooled" or bamboozeled. I don't know the right word. Like here it is, this is what was actually going on under the feeling of "love."

I too once had a dream of having sex with a family member, my mother. In the dream I clearly remember my mother saying to me after the "act", "Chart, I want you to know that even though we are having sex, I still love you as a Mother." I woke up feeling horribly repulsed and disgusting inside, which I also took as my responsibility as I was a willing participant... hence Shame...

This cross-over between the physical and emotional I think is very revealing. The affective becomes concrete and physical. Barriers that are unhealthy to transgress are largely ignored by the caregiver. I don't know if that's your case, but for me it as always just under the surface my whole childhood.

I ordered and received the Bradshaw book months ago but have not had the time to read it amongst all the things happening. Reading your analyses I want very much to find the time to get into it.

[dollyvee]

Thank you Chart    I feel as if it's a place where I can put things down as they come to me. It's always a bonus if someone can relate, even if it is through irritation 

I also wanted to say that I wasn't implying that your suggestion of criticism was you somehow trying to transfer shame onto me, just the new way I'm approaching looking at criticism.

I too once had a dream of having sex with a family member, my mother. In the dream I clearly remember my mother saying to me after the "act", "Chart, I want you to know that even though we are having sex, I still love you as a Mother." I woke up feeling horribly repulsed and disgusting inside, which I also took as my responsibility as I was a willing participant... hence Shame...

This cross-over between the physical and emotional I think is very revealing. The affective becomes concrete and physical. Barriers that are unhealthy to transgress are largely ignored by the caregiver. I don't know if that's your case, but for me it as always just under the surface my whole childhood.

This is very much it, a cross over of boundaries and caregivers in relationships with their children that they shouldn't be in. Bradshaw calls it emotional incest (I believe) and talks about surrogate spouses, which he labels as a form of sexual abuse. I guess I just never thought about it in relation to my gm you know because she "loves me." What's even more is that it's like intellectually I know this, I'm SURE I've talked about my grandmother's involvement in relationships (don't get a boyfriend, men are like this etc etc) with t, but I don't know if I've felt it as I did when I woke up from the dream. There is was, plain as day, the repulsion as you put it over what was actually going on. In addition to the feeling that I needed that love/connection/attachment, so that maybe I couldn't actually feel that feeling in the first place. Though somewhere I think I knew that I didn't like it.

The other layer that I haven't quite worked out yet is that I was aware of what happened with my gm in the dream after I was with a romantic interest and I was worried they were looking at someone else, or interested in someone else. This also fits into my experience of my gm's behaviour, which could be quite jealous, but is also something I experience in myself. I guess it's this deep feeling of not being "good enough," which is probably generational.

______________________________

I feel like lately I'mm trying to be more aware of the feelings that are there, and my responses to people and situations that I'm not usually processing. For example, there are underlying feelings of attachment with bosses at work where, because I haveen't been feeling well recently, I think I'm again looking for some protection, understanding, care in places where it shouldn't (right word) be coming from. There's also something in how I am around people when I am ill (wanting to be alone/isolate/shut down) that I think has to do with how I was treated when I was ill growing up. Don't talk about it, you're not going to get a lot of help/sympathy, which I guess is what deep down, I want and need. I'm sure there's also something about not wanting to show any "weakness" in there too.

[dollyvee]

So I guess I'm learning how my brain works or how I process things. Perhaps this is a by product of the work with NARM t? The last few sessions with NARM t, she's asked questions about how what's going on internally and I haven't had an answer. It's like being in a fuzzy white room, maybe grey, maybe beige. There's nothing that jumps out, maybe an inkling of something, but I found that sort of got shut down (thinking about it now and what subsequently happened, probably by a part that is very aware of what other people want/what it's supposed to do/what might cause "conflict." It doesn't essentially feel safe for this to come up and I don't really know/think I have an awareness that that's what's going on. So, when she asks me what's going on there's a lot of I don't knows and it feels "muddy."

Last session she asked me to see what happened in relation to someone giving me positive feedback. I've now come to understand that positive is a loaded word. We were discussing it and talking about having a moment to recognize the feeling when someone said something good to me about work. What started happening I think, because honestly I'm still not sure how we ended up where we did, is that there's an internal sense of pressure around doing well or positive feedback. (Looking at this now and seeing how I was rewarded for good performance as something my family wanted and validated, I can understand this). But I noticed that it had to do with the word positive, or t picked it out, and it came out that I felt like I had to focus on the positive and negate the other feelings that were there. When I tried focusing on the "positive," or having space with that feeling, it came out that I felt like I was blocking out other feelings, or ones where I felt more tingly and a sense of aliveness. Or that I just didn't feel the same sense of aliveness when I was trying to do what t was asking (how interesting in writing this that I felt like those tingly and alive feelings made me anxious and they are somehow "bad" when it's probably actually more of a sign of aliveness and connection).

But what's even more, and interesting to me, is that none of this came out directly. I wasn't aware what was going on inside and was trying it because consciously, I understood what t was saying and trying to do. However, I think the feeling of muddiness was like a resistance and is likely a part that was wanting to be heard, but feared conflict, or was trying to preserve the relationship. T called it a protest, but I had no awareness that that's what it could be, or what was happening. I think this is the part of me that is suggestible to things and I guess will abandon myself because someone "knows" better.

On the surface, brain included, I'm positive (there's that word again) and agreeable, willing to try it out. I think after a time, I might feel a sense of irritation and that I don't want to do things because it's bringing up uncomfortable stuff, but I've never seen it in the light of I'm doing/agreeing to x to diffuse conflict and protect a relationship because if I don't do x someone will be disappointed. The whole process brought up a lot of emotion and sadness. When t asked me what I would do when someone asked me to do something I don't want to do, and when I didn't answer, she told me she would tell them to get bent. I didn't have a reaction like that, but felt something come up from the time I was living at my dads, after what happened with my m where my protest of her treatment had very much been shut down, and there was probably sadness from the loss of that relationship where it was reinforced that I can't do anything. But none of this is happening in my "logical" thinking brain. I realized how difficult it is for me to tell someone I don't want to do something. The thing is though, is that I feel like I tell people all the time I don't want to do things or what my boundaries are, when something doesn't feel right, and this didn't feel like any of that. I had no inkling of the person who does those things.

Then of course, she asked me how I was feeling about the situation and I said like I was being difficult, which I think she wanted to head off. But I think no, this is something that happens all the time. It's very familiar to feel that I' being difficult when I speak up about something. One more thing, and I know this is another long post, is that it was interesting to me that I was feeling sort of like a weight was off my shoulders and what started to sidetrack me was remembering people who had been crappy towards me and trying to avoid them/put up boundaries based on their past behaviour when maybe that's not what they were doing at the time. I don't know if that makes sense. There was also someone at the gym who tried to "put me in my place" and that was off putting. But writing this now, I don't know why I seem to care/give other peoples' bad behaviour time? Like it's on me to avoid it?

[Desert Flower]

It's very familiar to feel that I' being difficult when I speak up about something.

Very familiar dolly. I recognize this tension of wanting to do well in therapy (for their sake), and not wanting to mess up the relationship with the t. This is practice for real life I think. But difficult still. It's part of our condition.

And I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly everything you wrote, I'm a little heavy with my own therapy session yesterday, but it seems to me the 'not being able to feel anything clearly' is a defence mechanism, like dissociation, and not resistance to therapy.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts dolly, it's very helpful to reflect on these things. Take care.

[dollyvee]

Thank you DF    Yes, I'm aware there is dissociation going on. However, one of the hallmarks of dissociation is that it's designed to take you out of something you're feeling, so you're not really aware of what you're feeling as protection (as is my understanding). So, it's kind of a blessing/big thing to slow down and pick that out and see what is happening and how it shows up.

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So, in the vein of talking about uncomfortable feelings -the inner critic, conflict/avoiding conflict- another one has come up the other day. Well actually two maybe. I'm aware of this feeling, but I don't know how to describe it - the panic? Reality? I saw the man who sort of asked me out (but not really) in the sauna the other day. I've seen him around and sort of acknowledged him I think, but also kept my distance. I guess that's a thing I do. There was something about the way he looked at me that made me freak out inside, and made me want to disappear, try to disappear/shut down? For the record, I don't think it was a creepy look; I don't think this man is a predator etc. I think he's probably more on a guy's guy spectrum, but maybe not even as bad as that. I feel like the look was probably more of wanting to talk to me again and realizing the sauna would be the place to do it since that's what happened before. But even though I feel like it was "safe," something made me freak out. I don't know if it's a feeling that happens just in this situation or has to do with receiving attention in general (because that is when I'm seen). I wonder if this is just very acutely what happens when people come close to me and he was someone I felt I couldn't manage in some way (to deal with male desire?) I wonder too if this touches on the part that is veery suceptible and feels like it can't "fight" things off, so needs to be rigid (and shut down)? I think it's good to spend some more time exploring this feeling/part.

I had another experience this morning when I clicked on Hope's link for support groups. My immediate reaction was something along the lines of *expletive* these people are never going to understand, which was quite shocking. I don't think I've heard that voice that clearly, or haven't heard it like that in a long time. I guess maybe it goes back to the "positive" where I want to believe that other people can understand/help with my experiences. Then, I think there's another part that thinks it's a bunch of *expletive*. Maybe after the session with t that part feels a little bit more free to be expressive and not so much like it has to be "positive" all the time. I think perhaps because there's maybe the notion too that I have to be "good" and "nice." I guess it's the experience of listening to and understanding why this part feels this way.

[Hope67]

Hi Dolly,
I just read what you wrote about the part who reacted along the lines of *expletive* these people are never going to understand, and I very much related to having a part who reacts in such a strong way.  I also have a part that does that, and I clearly hear the voice of that part and how they exclaim quite loudly and prominently whatever view they hold at the time they are expressing it.  It was validating to hear you talk about your own part in that way, as it helped me feel a sense of empathy with that experience.

I also like that you're keen to listen to and understand why that part feels that way - I also need to approach mine more in that way too.  Sometimes I just listen, rather than engage with it.  I am trying to be empathetic and understanding and curious.

Hope 

[dollyvee]

Thank you Hope  I would like to say I'm going to listen to this part. I also feel there's another part active that doesn't want to listen, or is maybe shutting it down.

So, I may have perhaps opened a can of worms yesterday talking about my reaction/what was coming up with the man in the sauna. I went to a cafe yesterday and had a coffee before going to the gym. I felt "cute casual" let's say and did a little bit of make up as I was hoping to run into someone. So, I felt like I was receiving unwanted attention from the man sitting next to me who was talking with a woman, shooting me dagger eyes. I just tried to ignore this, but I don't like how this man's energy made me feel, or just like I couldn't shut it out? There was a voice/feeling that came up, something like she didn't protect me. It made me think of the psychological reports and what was written about me and what happened with my gm. I was sort of shocked by this and think that I put off writing about it today, even though I wanted to remember it and thought it was significant for something to come up like that.

I don't know/how it's related but I also feel like when people want to help there is this part that will push it away, like they can't protect me. Maybe this is a hypervigilant part that is aware that people have failed me before.