Chronic fatigue syndrome

[Stussy7]

How many people here also have a chronic illness?

I read that being in fight/fight/freeze trauma state for a long period of time can cause illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome.

That's what I have. Over the years I have slowly built up my strength and now I can go to the gym twice a week.
HOWEVER THE LAST 3 months have been so stressful, that I have reverted back to being in bed all day. Years of hard work down the drain 

The body just gets to a point where it's like "I need to shut down"

[Desert Flower]

Yes, definitely Stussy7, I know what you're talking about. And I am convinced that these symptoms are indeed caused by stress. Or rather, by pushing away any unwanted feelings or thoughts we have. The brain then thinks it has to protect us against these unwanted feelings, thinks that they would be too hard for us to process (and at times, they are) and gives us all kinds of physicial symptoms (to worry about) instead. And I myself experienced my share of this. But I am doing so much better physically since I started allowing my thoughts and feelings to be there, teaching my brain that I can actually allow and process them.  My sources for feeling better psysically were mainly Nicole Sachs and Dr. Schubiner, you'll find them online easily. I know it seems like a radical stance to some so if it's not resonating with you, please just disregard. I do hope you will feel better.

[Stussy7]

I'm glad you're feeling better and have found something that works for you.
What do you mean by radical stance? Are the methods of these doctors controversial or something?

[Desert Flower]

Hi Stussy7.
I know, both from both experience and science, that this approach is valid. But I also know some people have trouble believing physical symptoms can be caused by an overly active nervous system and brain patterns. My experience stems from over thirty years of chronic fatigue, migraines, back pains, shoulder and knee pains, and allergies that I had. And I had what they now call 'long covid'. I'm quite convinced my brain was giving my body all these real physical symptoms. Because when I started acknowledging what I was feeling and thinking and what I was stressed out about, ALL of these symptoms dissipitated. They have now been gone for three years.

I'm not saying it was in my head. The symptoms were real all right. I'm only saying they were not caused by any physical defect or damage or disease. As an innocent example, when we feel embarrassed, we start to blush. This is a pyhysical reaction to a mental phenomenon. But the trouble is, for all of these conditions, whenever you start looking for physical abnormalities, science will always find something.

As for 'radical', maybe I used too strong a term. But I know for instance in the UK, there is quite an aggressive lobby in favour of looking at these physical causes or abnormalities that seem to cause the physical unwellness. And aggressiveness is something that scares me so I want to be cautious and not offend anybody. And it's hard to get people to hear this other approach, because they feel it would not be taking their symptoms seriously. And I am taking them very seriously as a matter of fact. Still, I do feel this approach is very helpful.

So I hope this explains it a little better. Take care.

[Secondchance]

Hi Stussy7

I was diagnosed with ME/CFS some 30 years ago, but I think it was a wrong diagnosis and it should be Environmental Illness as mine is due I think to the mercury and pesticide poisonings I have had since the age of 10 months. But I have to use that diagnosis for benefits and it is true that most of the symptoms are mine.

I have read that chronic nervous system arousal, will cause nutritional deficiencies, which will after time, produce illness including ME/CFS. I think this is part of my problems. I have tried to study and work out which nutrients I need but now think that this is not he best way ahead and can cause its own problems.

I have recently started using home made nettle leaf infusion to help provide what is missing as well as my organic clean diet and am working on the rest with the help of someone who is preparing a report of my latest HTMA (hair tissue mineral analysis). There are other ways of providing nutrition apart from depending on supplements, the companies of  which are increasingly being taken over by Big Pharma.

I have been disappointed that despite working hard on my trauma this past year, I have been getting worse but think I understand now why adrenal have crashed.

Best wishes to you.

[Stussy7]

Thanks for your replies.
There's lots of new information emerging. It's good to keep an open mind. Y
Yes unfortunately some people get very aggressive about their viewpoints.
But we are all different and we need to find something that works for us.
SecondChance could you be getting worse because you are addressing your trauma? Maybe you will get better the more you heal?

[Secondchance]

Thanks Stussy7. I think that working on my trauma has reduced the time I spend on studying recent findings on health issues  - Lyme conferences etc, so it is an issue but the main thing I think could be nutritional as I began a new highly absorbable magnesium supplement which apparently is bad for weak adrenals so they crashed.

I am off all supplements at the moment working it all out.

[NarcKiddo]

I am sorry you are struggling with this Stussy7. I would suggest you try to reframe your view of this as work down the drain, though. It really isn't. Strength and fitness will drop off after a while if you don't exercise, but sometimes you just have to take the time off. I've been struggling with all manner of health issues the last few years that have kept me away from my regular exercise. But it comes back much more quickly than the time it took to build in the first place once you get going again.

If you need to take some time out, then you do. Stress affects our physical abilities, whether that stress is physical or mental. I measure my HRV (heart rate variability) via an app on my phone. The app was created by a man called Marco Altini who has a lot of interesting things to say about this topic. Although it is primarily designed as a fitness app he would be the first to acknowledge that emotional stress will take an obvious toll on HRV readings. If you add to that too much stress from heavy physical activity you are asking for trouble.

I'm also interested to read what Desert Flower has said in this thread, because I have recently had a couple of instances in the gym where the child part of me has acted up to the point of elevating my heart rate and making me feel wobbly in an effort to get me to stop. I knew with absolute certainly that the brisk walk I had been doing on the treadmill did not warrant the physical symptoms. I had also been processing some stuff in my head as is my habit when exercising and I think child NK just really, really wanted to be heard. But I did not want to stop exercising. As soon as I acknowledged child NK and asked her to exercise with me my physical symptoms went back to normal and I was able to complete my planned workout.

I hope you feel better soon, Stussy7

[Desert Flower]

I would suggest you try to reframe your view of this as work down the drain, though. It really isn't.

I agree Narckiddo and Stussy7. I also needed many many years of learning, falling and getting back up, experiencing setbacks and growth. It's hard places we come from and hard and courageous work we have to do to get to know ourselves for real and see what is going on with us. So none of that time is wasted.

But we are all different and we need to find something that works for us.

And I also agree with that. We each have our own paths to travel.

But if you're interested, here's a website I like with long covid recovery stories. For me, chronic fatigue and long covid were pretty much the same. It's not a very professional website but it is genuine I think: www.longcovidcured.com

I hope all of us will find what works for us.

[Chart]

Stussy7, Thanks for this thread. So many things that bear discussing. I want to chime in on two ideas mentioned:
"Getting worse" in general needs to be weighed VERY carefully. One, the body is expressing something that wasn't there before. This is actually what healing is all about: symptoms go from being covert to overt. Maybe it's more uncomfortable even painful, but it's now out in the open. Something is manifesting that we can at least see and feel and react to. "Getting worse" is actually more often than not, and contradictory though it might seem, the beginning of something actually wanting to heal. Often we are just recognizing pain that was submerged before.

Secondly, The connection between mind and body is the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Developmental trauma impacts dramatically the functioning of the Polyvagal system. No amount of talk therapy can affect a negatively  conditioned or unbalanced nervous system (Cptsd and Ptsd). Even "body work" such as yoga or meditation can "trigger" a negative nervous system reaction. This is why we can have the impression that all of our therapeutic work "was for nothing" because we're suddenly triggered by an event that through traumatic survival conditioning passes directly to the nervous system. This ancient and dominant reaction trumps every other system in the brain and takes 100% control. Going to bed is the ONLY option because very simply, Nothing in the brain works anymore. The prefrontal cortex has been put out of commission for survival purposes. Getting out of this state requires we address the systematic calming and re-regulation of our nervous system. The mechanics of this is neither "choice" or willpower. Guilt or shame, because of this helpless state, simply aren't accurate.
But knowing what the real source of the problem is we can move slowly out with techniques that calm the nervous system. The first being establishing safety, so going back to bed is actually EXACTLY a good thing to initially do.
 

[Stussy7]

You've all given me lots to think about.
Sorry I was very negative in my first post. I now see things differently.
Plus it turns out I was only in bed for a few days...I am slowly recovering.....and I have since figured out that it was my body reacting to a triggering event (an issue with my narcissist dad).
Thanks again for all your replies... I hope you're all well 

[Desert Flower]

@Stussy7, no need to apologise as far as I'm concerned.
I'm very glad you're feeling a little better already.

And I learned something here too. It turns out whenever I have an opinion that I suspect others may disagree with, although mine might still be a valid opinion, I call it 'radical' up front, as to not get into trouble just in case others do happen to disagree. For me, it is 'radical' to speak my mind. I'm so afraid of what others might think. Lots to think about here too.

 

[Chart]

DF, I have that issue too, or similar. Often when I post I feel anxiety that somehow I've "gone too far". I rush back to the thread to see if the person has responded and if I'm in trouble or not. Over time I've gotten a little more relaxed, but it still comes up. I know where all that comes from, being conceived to save my mother's relationship, which of course I didn't manage to do. So naturally, everything was my fault, always was and always will be. Letting go of that has been slow. But it's lessened in intensity over the past year and the fact that nearly all of the time the forum supports and encourages. Even contrary opinions are presented empathetically. It's helped me so much.
(Or maybe nobodies telling me! :-)
 
 

[Desert Flower]

  Thank you Chart. 

[Dalloway]

I just wanted to thank you all for contributing to this thread and Stussy7 for starting it. I´ve always looked at my fatigue and constant exhaustion as something that bothers me, so this very interesting aspect that it´s the body´s way to  calm and re-regulate itself is new for me and I like it very much because it makes perfect sense. And also helps not to blame myself for being like that. So thank you.