She wants to come here :/

[Phoebes]

Well, as I had explained in a post a couple of weeks ago, I finally told my mom how I feel (well, a small part), and she had offered to "see a therapist" with me, which some of you helped me hash out that that would be a bad idea,due to experience having taught me about the denial and manipulation which would surely take place.

I have not talked to my mom since then, but now she sent a text saying she wants to come to my town (a rarity) and hash out any hurts between us..then proceeds to say how it's just too upsetting for her to recall and admit things she has done in the past, and once she starts crying she can't stop, etc..

It seems to me in her mind it is still all about her. Part of me wants to tell her EXACTLY and ALL of what I want to say. The other doesn't want her to come and knows how we will be in a room alone, and things will get said that she will deny and turn around on me. Maybe I am saying that out of fear of what might happen, but it seems she only pulls her shenanigans when we are alone.

I don't do well talking to her anyway. It is engrained in me not to, and to not say how I feel. Even in other relationships, it's like I freeze when important, self-preserving things need to be said. However, this could be a chance to stand up to that fear, and for myself. I am sure she will be all waif-y, and then have the fact that "she tried" to use against me. I might sound harsh but only going by past experience.

I don't know. I am seriously concerned about how this is bound to go, but at least my mom is making SOME sort of effort to try to resolve something, and did make the above admission, which she has never done. She has stated not that long ago that she did not own anyone an apology, and that she has already been forgiven by God, the only one that matters. 

Has anyone just stated the facts of how your PD has effected your life to your PD? That seems to be a bad idea...

[schrödinger's cat]

Oh yikes. Sorry to hear that you're in such a quandary. So if I understand you right, then you think this is a good idea in theory and in general - but that your mother might not be able to actually go ahead with it, since she's lacking the ability to... well, to not be manipulative?

Sorry, I hardly know how else to put it. There are so many of us here who have narcissistic mothers. What you say of your mother just reminded me of what they told about their mothers - particularly of something called Hoovering. It's what happens when you've gained some much-needed distance to your abusers, who then feel alarmed and try to pull you back in. They shower you with honeyed words, or with gifts, or they rein themselves in very tightly and seem absolutely normal, like you'd finally be able to talk reasonably and get along. But it's just a strategy, or an unconscious reflex. If you take all this at face value and let the relationship become closer again: WHAM, the old patterns of behaviour pop up again like rats in a toilet.

I really, really wasn't sure whether to say that. If your mother's words are honestly meant, then it would be churlish to say anything that would ruin things. But I had the impression that you're worried that this precise thing will happen.

A question (one you don't have to answer): If you agreed to this talk - would you have any real options? Has she left any route open to you that would let you honestly stand up for your own needs and tell her about the reality of your life?

Your mother is likely to turn your words against you... she casts herself as the waif, the victim, the "reasonable one" who is unjustly accused... she strongly leans on your compassion, making it look like any attempt to tell her the reality of what she's done would be taken by her as an unjustified attack on her poor nerves and she'd just cry and cry... Wow. I'm not sure how anyone would have an open talk with someone who does all that. I mean - just how would you do it? I'm stumped.

Sorry if this is too long, my kids have been wandering in with questions, and if I lack time I'm always wordy. Sorry. I hope your situation will resolve itself soon. All the best! 

[lonewolf]

Phoebes, remember to honor your inner self/child as you assess whether this is a good idea or not. Will you be safe? If you do decide to take her up on the offer, what safety mechanisms do you have in place for yourself? For example, will she stay at a hotel opposed to staying with you so you have control over your environment?

You wrote:

It seems to me in her mind it is still all about her. Part of me wants to tell her EXACTLY and ALL of what I want to say. The other doesn't want her to come and knows how we will be in a room alone, and things will get said that she will deny and turn around on me. Maybe I am saying that out of fear of what might happen, but it seems she only pulls her shenanigans when we are alone.

It pains me to say this, but if your mom is a narcissist (which it sounds like she is) it IS all about her. It took me a long time to accept this about my own mother.

I probably sound quite dark in my response (I hesitated on whether to even post it), but mostly I am suggesting that you follow your instincts. Maybe it is too soon? If you are ready, then please ensure that you have plans in place for anything surprising that comes along or just to honor your emotional safety. Do you have supports around you and people you can talk to?

I'm sorry if I am being so melodramatic. I may be responding to my own fear here and just projecting too much onto your own experiences. Forgive me if I am and please feel free to ignore. I just want to make sure you are safe 

[Phoebes]

Thanks, Cat and Wolf

Cat, yeah, in the past, there have been hoovers, and using my words against me. Even when I would try totally validating her and humbling myself to my "mistakes", hoping that would "work"..I think in the past she was totally more intense in denying her role in my upbringing. It seems like she, through dealing with the last months of her own mother's alzheimer's-riddled life, that MAYBE she is trying to, in her own way, bring peace to the situation with her and me. That, OR she is trying to get validation that she is indeed a good mother, and wants to hear me say all is forgiven and she is off the hook. I actually WANT to be able to say that, and I think for the distant past stuff I can (mostly), even though she has admitted, say, ONE thing she has ever done, when it was extreme abuse on a regular basis. But it's the current lack of validation, undermining comments that she will deny and blame on me, if I bring that up. I am assuming based on the past.

Wolf, I do think at this time it is all about her. I could actually go into the conversation with that in mind. It just gets hard when in the throes of emotion sticking with the "program" of boundaries and not allowing her to hurt me.

I'm not sure what doing this in public or with a T would solve. It may suck to be alone, but at least she would be honest and I could go from there, if NC is where it needs to be. She can be total witch, queen or waif, depending on the situation. I tend to shut down and not say what I "should", need or want to say when she starts escalating her BS. I shut down, and she thinks she has "won". She MUST be in control. I don't think that will change (at least in her mind. I know she is not in control, neither of me, or of her mind.)

At this point, I have not answered her and don't know how I will. I don't think denying her the "talk" will solve anything moving forward. I'm not really wanting to go NC because I don't want to make things uncomfortable for my sister, niece an nephew, if I can help it. I also am very wary and fearful that this so-called talk to solve things could do more harm than good.

[lonewolf]

I deeply admire you Phoebes. I would never go there with my mother. Not in a million years. I just can't.

My personal stuff aside  , in the end, it all comes down to what you need to do for yourself. It's about your well-being and what helps you to move forward.

It really doesn't matter what your mother thinks, wants, does or says ... it's really about how this meeting works for you. It's truly about you and honoring you. If asserting yourself ... giving voice to your feelings/fighting back about all the harm that was done to you ...is needed to heal, then go for it. In the end, it is really about healing yourself ... and so, don't hold back.

I'm cheering for you. Sometimes things just need to be said so that YOU can move forward. It's not about them.