Can't do friendship

[owl25]

I've been reading some of the threads here about people's struggles with social interactions and friendships. It all is so familiar. It drives home the point that my experience as a teenager - not really feeling part of the group, clearly not being included in conversation, clearly not being invited - is part and parcel of CPTSD. It was always painful, but to see it here In black and white, to see it as a natural consequence of the trauma in my childhood, is hard. In a way I think that kind of experience is another trauma.

I have become more isolated since then. I get along fine with people on a surface level, and seem to be well liked by people I meet for the most part. But I can't take it to the next level. I don't know how to not be too much. I am so fearful of being too much that I keep people at arm's length. The teenage experience of being part of a group but not really being included has made me withdraw more from people. I always likened it to being a kid outside a store, face pressed up against the glass watching everyone inside having a good time and being happy. Not getting to be a part of that.

I have tried to open up a bit to one or two people here and there. But inevitably something always happens that makes me retreat. The realization that other people have their own problems, which makes them unlikely to be there for me. Or red flags that pop up that make me feel unsafe. At the slightest hint of danger, I retreat.

Everyone is wounded, and those wounds feel like such a barrier. I think I am desperate for some kind of parental figure, someone who is wise and caring. Someone who gets it. Someone who can step in and help me with the problems that are overwhelming me. Instead I see nothing but limitations in people. I have spent years working on myself, trying to heal. Then when I run into people saying things like "you need to focus on the good", I get discouraged because it feels like they have so much of their own growth they need to do, and they can't meet me where I am.

I'm so desperate for friendship, love and support. I feel so terribly alone. I don't know if I am being too picky about people. It's really hard. I have two people I tried to connect with, but I think they keep people at a distance too. Then a third, she said some things that made me want to pull back. And a fourth, I just started to try and connect a little. But because I am feeling miserable I want more than just a surface level, nothing-too-personal-connection, and so I don't want to reach out and talk about "nothing" because I need someone to really see me and support me.

The pain of the isolation and being alone is too much. I'm too scared to change it. I'm too scared of being disappointed. I end up feeling hopeless and in agony.

[periwinkle]

I feel you. We need supportive friendships to get better and having formative experiences of people as dangerous really messes with our ability to trust people and feel included. It's a logical outcome of being hurt, in a way that messes with our perception of ourselves, of other people, of how to interact with people. I struggle with isolation similarly and I know how hopeless it gets. I want to say like... we can overcome this isolation and it's worth it to keep reaching out to people, I hope that's true at least, but sometimes I'm not so sure.
Hang in there. For what it's worth, you're not alone in feeling terribly alone.

[Bermuda]

I sympathise with your words. It can feel very lonely, and I know very well the look on people's faces when I'm just TOO much.

But... There is space in the room for everyone, and we deserve enough space for ourselves to be as much or little as we'd like. We are worthy.

[woodsgnome]

This is such a hard issue to deal with comfortably. After many rounds of push/pull relationship distress, in looking back I realize that the only time when I experienced meaningful relationships were also those times I had no expectations.

But mostly there were times when yes, I definitely had hoped for better, but which soured quickly. I was like (still am) a turtle in a shell after those, scared to ever stick my neck out again. And I rarely have; it hardly seems worth the effort. A couple of glimmers, but mostly I found people who act okay but seem very wary of really wanting much more to do with me -- I've no idea why, if I seem needy or too shy or what. It might even be a fear of 'too good to be true' factoring in. 

I'm still desperate to find something that goes beyond wishful thinking. Yet there's those examples from before, when the friendships (they didn't last, due to death) just happened, and when I least expected them. I sorely miss those times, but I also know myself too well to expect things might happen again. I know they can, and might, but the pain of the other side of the coin keeps me under that turtle shell.

Sorry I have no magic wand on offer. I'm sad on the one hand, without expectations but open to surprise myself in the process. Just not banking on it.

It seems the best thing is not to self-blame too much. We know we're worthy and have loads of empathy and compassion on offer, but alas we have some rather deep wounds too. Yet -- we're not alone in this. Relationships are sticky no matter what.

I hope you can find your way to finding some peace with this, while staying kind to yourself, owl25.   

[buddy9832]

I'm sorry you fee this way. It really does sound like it goes hand and hand with cPTSD.  I can relate so much. Owl, it feels like you described my experience to a t. It's tough. I can't say I've found a solution yet. I can't really connect with anyone other than my wife at this point. Friends I've had for decades when I do spend time with them I feel empty.

We obviously have our friends on this forum who understand but I do understand that's not the same.

[Jemini]

I get along fine with people on a surface level, and seem to be well liked by people I meet for the most part. But I can't take it to the next level.

This sums it up for me. All of your post I relate to. But this point, it is agonizing. I feel like I grew up either learning to avoid closeness to avoid being seen for how messed up I was, or maybe I just never learned how to develop friendships in some normal way. But yeah, I meet people, they warm to me, like me, but every single friendship or relationship falls apart for one reason or another and I've found myself completely alone. It was traumas in my adulthood that finally pushed me off a cliff, including losing my family of origin. I feel like I may never get back on the horse and feel in the world again. I don't know if my response helps at all, but I do relate so much to all of it. I'm here hoping to make some friendships in the safety of knowing people may relate to all of it.

[dollyvee]

Hi

I realize that the only time when I experienced meaningful relationships were also those times I had no expectations.

I relate to this...you don't want to have expectations and hope people will be there for you (that wise, mothering figure) but at the same time, I feel like the it's too scary to open up to people without some assurance that they're to be trusted. This is where I think I have high expectations of people that fall flat because not many have had these experiences growing up and people are selfish, petty and fallable but doesn't mean they're like our family.

I find myself too, subconsciously choosing people who are unavailable or narcissistic, getting in situations where I'm trying to prove my worth at work and encountering bullies. This is really hidden stuff though for me and hard to recognize it. I have started to recognize that if I have anxiety there's an old "program" running and my default response is to push people away, so I can deal with that anxiety which might not be easy for others. What I'm left with is underneath it all my self worth feels like garbage, I think and that I'm really angry with my family (which seems to be something I can't address)

I just wanted to say, I get where you're coming from and it's not easy. I've come to like my independence and the life I made for myself but yes, it would be nice too if there were more people around me with more substance. Maybe if I dig deeper and face that anger something will come out of it 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Rainydaze]

I really relate to this. I think shame isolates us. Plus friendship is very difficult because it really is a lot of work to maintain even at the best of times. When you have periods of being withdrawn due to emotional flashbacks it's very easy to lose your handle of existing friendships, let alone try to make new ones. 

Ideally I'd wave a magic wand and lose all the inhibitions and fear which prevent me from opening up to people and being more laid-back about socialising. It's the inner and outer critics being too strong. They became strong for a reason though and there was a time when my lack of self identity and zero concept of boundaries meant I was far too open to attracting toxic people into my life, so I'm learning to be more compassionate towards myself for it. When I was a child/teenager I had a very toxic, emotionally abusive 'friend' who I devoted myself to at the expense of meeting healthier people. Throughout my twenties and into my thirties it's left me very wary of opening up to and trusting anyone. I can see how the abuse and conditioning to be submissive within my dysfunctional family has left me very open to attracting toxic people like that into my life.

To be honest I still don't trust my judgement enough to not be manipulated to that extent again. Maybe that's ok for now. Maybe I need to learn to be a best friend to myself first and learn a healthier sense of boundaries and assertiveness before I try opening up to anyone.

Everyone is wounded, and those wounds feel like such a barrier. I think I am desperate for some kind of parental figure, someone who is wise and caring. Someone who gets it. Someone who can step in and help me with the problems that are overwhelming me. Instead I see nothing but limitations in people. I have spent years working on myself, trying to heal. Then when I run into people saying things like "you need to focus on the good", I get discouraged because it feels like they have so much of their own growth they need to do, and they can't meet me where I am.

Yep, even the most well meaning people will struggle to every truly understand because C-PTSD is so far outside most people's frame of reference. This is where forums such as this are so amazing because we can truly relate and empathise. To be honest when I look at a lot of the friendships that people around me have they don't realistically seem to be that deep. A lot of people are satisfied with just the 'fun' aspects of socialising and are happy to keep it at that base level, so I think deeper, one on one connections (which I much prefer personally) are actually quite rare.

[dollyvee]

I really relate to this. I think shame isolates us. Plus friendship is very difficult because it really is a lot of work to maintain even at the best of times. When you have periods of being withdrawn due to emotional flashbacks it's very easy to lose your handle of existing friendships, let alone try to make new ones. 

Shame is a large portion of feelings with CPTSD. I've felt it a lot - why am I different from these other people? Why can't I just lighten up? Am I reading too much into this?  And then I feel not good enough - that there's something wrong with me.

Three Roses posted a YouTube link in another part of the forum which I only just listened to and was very revealing. It talks about our internal parts - the critic, and what it's protecting, how they function, why they were created and how they function abnormally in the present. I've felt these parts (recently I felt myself as a child mimicking my NPD mother as a way of trying to function in the world at that age) before but this helped articulate their place more. I'm hoping it's a start to understand how they over protect sometimes in friendships and relationships. I think it's called Internal Family Systems. Link below:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UfmGwENz9M&t=2297s

[dollyvee]

Someone has also mentioned the Beyond Bitchy podcast on another thread. This is a really good intro to setting boundaries and what they are. I've been getting better at standing up for myself but it helped pick out some of the negative thinking that comes along with it for me and her "least pathological explanation" is a good approach to get around some of that thinking. Ie it's not about me. It also helped me to see that sometimes it is about me and there's something else there there I need to look at (ie going deeper to deal with the inner feelings that come up when dealing with bullies because they are out there and it's not just in your head)