Dysregulation around N's

[Kizzie]

I have one area of recovery that still rises up for me and causes me to dysregulate. It's having to interact with someone who is an N. If I get caught in a situation with an N I do try and stay online, but if the person starts gaslighting and using circular logic, etc, I will often go offline, into the back brain that says stay as far away from this person as possible. It's particularly bad when I get caught off guard as in when it's a covert N and I don't realize until after a few minutes.

Up from the depths comes a deep, deep anger that knocks me off kilter for days and I know it is because I grew up with N's. In particular my B used to run me around in circles and used gaslighting and manipulation to shut me down.  I hated it then and it appears I still hate it today decades later. It infuriates me.   

I did make some progress with my NM by managing her (and moving to the other side of the country), so I'm happy about having a reasonable relationship before she died, but my NB forget it.  Ten minutes in a room with him and I'm toast.  The same goes for any N's I bump into in the course of my life that I can't immediately get away from. 

I honestly don't know if I will ever "recover" from this entirely. The thing I hate the most about trying to deal with an N is not being heard, of being dismissed, gaslit, manipulated. I am a decent, reasonable, caring person and I try to deal with others honestly and respectfully, and I ask that people treat me the same way. I can't abide those who don't do the same. All you can do really is walk away. 

[NarcKiddo]

 

[Papa Coco]

Kizzie

With respect to your post, you and I look to be cut from the same cloth. Narcs trigger my flight response with zero tolerance. The second any circular logic starts, I simply turn and walk away. Conversation done. They don't deserve for me to even say "excuse me." They don't deserve for me to even tell them off. I just turn and walk away.

They're not worth the effort. When I walk away, which is against my nature to do to people, I coach and calm myself with the words, "Live and let die." If they want to waste their lives living their lives out in the sweltering goo of hatred and lies, let them. I'm not an emotion-cop. If they can't behave, I have a very easy time making good friends somewhere else with good people.

Hugs to you. 

[Kizzie]

Agreed Papa Coco    There is just no sense talking to them and I know that from years around the N's in my family but sometimes you're just stuck dealing with someone.

My H and I were just talking about his sister who was the executor for his NM's estate.  His NS told us their M left us money but after a couple of months and nothing my H started asking her about it.  She then started saying there was no money even though we had emails from her saying there was. She said she never told him there was money even though we had it in writing, and she just continued to run him around. After a while with him trying to get her to tell the truth she would no longer speak to him. Soon after she bought a lovely condo in Victoria.

We were going to use the money for our son's university so naturally we were quite angry with her. We didn't have a copy of the will or any of his M's accounts and figured it would be too expensive to take her to court so we just let it go.  Somehow in all of this we were the bad guys as is the case with N's and their smear campaigns. We were being mean to her.

My H being the good guy he is tried reaching out to her a few times over the years but she would not talk to him even when she was sick and dying. 

So as you say, "Live and let die". 

[NarcKiddo]

Ugh. That story about your H's sister is grim, Kizzie. But so typical. And I notice that N's tend to be very grabby around wills and estates. I was just visiting FOO and my N mother was talking about a friend who is planning to sell up and move to a distant part of the country. She has some sick relatives there. My mother was saying she could not understand why the friend was moving. The relatives are really very sick "so she won't have them around for company for very long. And they have children so it's not as if she is in line for any inheritance." Charming.

I've been thinking about your dysregulation, Kizzie, when having to deal with an N. I am not sure if I get it when dealing with all Ns. I certainly go straight on alert. But I've noticed my dysregulation moving around a bit recently, in respect of members of my FOO. It seems that I have my boundaries and protections against NM and NF working pretty effectively these days. They still have the ability to get to me, but not nearly so much or so hard. However, NSis is triggering me on a regular basis. Just hearing from her can make anger flare. I think maybe before I was so concerned with the main danger that I simply did not have the capacity to react to her. I dunno. I'm rambling now, so will stop.

[Healing Finally]

Thanks for sharing Kizzie!    - sooo glad we can share this kind of stuff with each other here.  I mean, some people would be like what's the problem?  If you don't like someone, just walk away!  No big deal...but WE know it IS a big deal because our bodies get triggered and then we have to work to sooth ourselves.

And that story about your H's sister, geeez

I plan to do some EMDR this week with my psychologist on my uNPD sister, in hopes that I don't get so triggered by her actions in the future.  Lately she's been off the charts narcissistic, and I see it hurting my mother all the time (but she won't acknowledge it, ugh more dysfunction.)

Fortunately I've distanced myself from my family now for the past few months and it's soooo GREAT.  But I still get triggered.

Have you tried EMDR? I imagine so.  I'll let'cha know if it works for me afterwards.  HUGS

[Blueberry]

My H and I were just talking about his sister who was the executor for his NM's estate.  His NS told us their M left us money but after a couple of months and nothing my H started asking her about it.  She then started saying there was no money even though we had emails from her saying there was. She said she never told him there was money even though we had it in writing, and she just continued to run him around. After a while with him trying to get her to tell the truth she would no longer speak to him.

Sounds like my parents and all that run-around they gave me   In my case it turned out a little better. At least for now.

I'm sorry you and your H had to go through it all. It's so draining - all the gaslighting. Ugh.

So as you say, "Live and let die". 

   That's a new one for me.

[Kizzie]

Honestly, sometimes it seems to me that Ns are everywhere and I cannot relax because of how off kilter/back brain I become if I get caught out by someone I didn't realize was N at first. It's the one thing that can still set me off, often when I least expect it which is frustrating.

I did learn to manage my NM so that's something as she loomed oh so large in my life so I'm almost proud of that as for 100 pound 90 something years she could still pack a punch when she was alive. Like you Edna I no longer would play her games and she knew it so she mostly stopped all the really N stuff with me (my NB not so much). It took a while for her to understand I wasn't having it but eventually she got the message and behaved more or less.

I did try EMDR by the way Healing Finally, when Trump got into power in the US (I'm from Canada) and he was on the news 24/7.  It actually did help as I was able to take a step back. I couldn't watch the news mind you as it was too much.

[Cascade]

Honestly, sometimes it seems to me that Ns are everywhere and I cannot relax because of how off kilter/back brain I become ...

Kizzie, I hear you completely and fully believe that narcissists are everywhere!  I have the same reaction to these inescapable beasts.

A shining example in my life (other than my father) was my ex-husband, with his frequent expressions of superiority, vaguely disguised put-downs, and contradictions until I was spinning and left so confused I never knew which comment(s) were the lies.  He would come up with names for people that were ugly, racist, or mocking their difficulties in some way.  All of this he did while using some good deed he performed to show what a wonderful person he was.  He was an expert manipulator for sure - did intelligence in the Marine Corps.  The only time he could ever ask for help was when he was in crisis, which was just a trap because he ended up berating the helper (usually me) when the help wasn't good enough and didn't fully satisfy his needs.  My attempts at therapy were a joke to him.  At least now, I know deep down he was just afraid of being discovered as the pathetic weakling he was.  I'm grateful every day that I never bore him children and got away free and clear.

Communication was futile, so your strategy of walking away and Papa Coco's strategy of saying, "Live and let die," are best.  Do not engage.  Of course, this is easier said than done when they're in areas of our lives that we want or need, such as work or neighbors.

I'm sorry you had cause to start this thread about covert narcissists.  I also thank you for your openness about your own struggles.
   -Cascade 

[Kizzie]

So I had an encounter with an N in full blown N rage at me and wow, not at all the way to start one's day.  Normally this would have triggered me but because it was so over the top I knew it was something called DARVO.  Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. In other words making me the offender and themselves the victim. Definitely not called for and the whole attack was rather appalling. No effort or desire to try and work out the conflict on their part so I am now No Contact with the person. There's absolutely no point in trying, it will just bring more abuse.

 It appears I do have more knowledge and skills around dealing with N's than I thought.  I thank Out of the FOG for that as they have a toolbox of ways to manage N's and the tools do work. There's DARVO but also JADE; don't justify, argue, defend or explain to an N because it just keeps you on the hook and they will keep on in fight mode no matter what.

Anyway, note to self - stay as far away as possible from N's. 

[NarcKiddo]

 

[Healing Finally]

So glad you have a handle on this particular Narc encounter! 

I will remember these, thanks Kizzie!

DARVO: Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender - When a Narc does this be prepared!

JADE: Don't justify, argue, defend or explain - When talking to a Narc - so true!

 

[Kizzie]

They're really quite helpful Healing Finally, you just have to remember them in the heat of the moment lol