Fawn Response

[rainydiary]

I've been frustrated with the thoughts from several different folks in my life that I am a "people pleaser."

While I don't necessarily deny that I do things that would be categorized as "people pleasing" I am also thinking about the fawn response and how people pleasing is fawning.

I think that calling it people pleasing feels judging to me and like it's something I am intentionally doing.  When people say I am a people pleaser I feel let down and unsupported and ashamed.

When I think about it as fawning, I recognize that my brain is trying to keep me safe.  It may not be a great strategy and not working for me anymore (or really ever have worked), but it is my brain doing its best to respond to the things that have happened to me.

I don't particularly want to ignore reality or not face uncomfortable truth about myself.  But sometimes other people just miss the mark of what is happening internally for me and that leaves me feeling more alone.

[Kizzie]

For sure rainy, non-survivors are not typically going to get it whereas survivors do.  What you wrote is so true:

it is my brain doing its best to respond to the things that have happened to me.

Absolutely 

[Beijaflor57]

Rainydiary, I struggle with this issue as well.

Even though I understand now why I fawn or people-please, I still feel a lot of shame over it. I'm working on being more assertive, and consistent with boundaries, especially in relation to my job, but it still hurts when others point out this aspect of my behavior.

[NarcKiddo]

Nobody has ever told me I am a people-pleaser, but I absolutely am. It's one of the reasons I avoid relationships - I fear the person might want something and then I would have to deliver, regardless.

Actually, thinking about it, my husband has commented occasionally throughout our married life that maybe I could consider not fawning over my mother quite so much but this usually resulted in huge push back from me.

Until recently I would probably even have thought that being accused of people-pleasing was a compliment. Like, why would I not want other people to be pleased? It would have taken a very brave person to enquire how much of myself was getting squashed out in the meantime.

[rainydiary]

Kizzie, I appreciate the validation and the reminder that folks perceive differently based on their experiences.

Beijaflor57, thank you for naming shame and the hurt that comes from having this pointed out by others.  Me too.

NarcKiddo, I appreciate what you shared.  I think some of my struggle is how "people pleasing" differs from being words people lift up like "selfless."  I feel like I am getting something wrong.

.........
I think this is all weighing on me especially because I've been told by two different people that I am people pleasing.

One of those people is the therapist I am currently seeing and I have gained support from our conversations together until last week. 

I think she is trying to help me, but used the same words to describe my behavior as the words she used to describe the behavior of abusive people in my life.  I felt compared to them and then feel like "am I actually any better than these folks?"

I do think over time I have done more because I want to and am prioritizing myself...but there are also very real reasons I have to continue to fawn that seems hard to be supported or validated in.

[Chart]

I like to use the word 'manipulation'. This, for me, immediately changes the tone of what is actually happening, since manipulation usually carries a negative context (which is actually not the case). I please others in order to manipulate them. They like me and thus I feel safe with them. I then "study" the situation at a distance and over time and try to figure out the dynamics of the situation. For me, there's nothing wrong with pleasing people. The question is rather, Am I sacrificing my needs for the security my Cptsd-brain dysfunctionally demands?
And, yes, there I realize that I am doing all sorts of stuff that is totally unhealthy for me. But once these things are identified, I can consciously work on them.

[Kizzie]

I guess what I was trying to say Rainy is that it is a survival strategy we adopt that kicks in often without time for us to choose a different way of responding ("brain is trying to keep me safe"). So perhaps if you just try and notice when you are starting to do it and shut it down, even a little at a time to see how it feels not to do it and to understand when it is kicking in.

I am all for being compassionate with ourselves so can I just say also it may be the case that some of what you think is people pleasing may just be friendliness and interest in the other person? It's important to distinguish between the two IMO.   

[Chart]

Yes. Being aware is the key I think.

[rainydiary]

Chart, I appreciate your perspective on the meaning of the words for you.  It's reminding me that words don't mean exactly the same to each of us depending on our experiences.

Kizzie, I appreciate the clarification.  I think what is bugging me is that multiple people have used this phrasing with me.  I don't disagree that I have often done things others wanted at the expense of myself but not always.  I think there is gray area and nuance it feels like others don't see.

[dollyvee]

Hi rainy,

I wonder, and this is not directly about your experience Rainy, but if there are times when perhaps people are giving us constructive criticism about ourselves, but maybe we are on the defence with cptsd and take it in the way that there's something inherently wrong with me for doing this? I know I have had times when t has said something which I've immeadiately taken in a negative light. However, I think I'm at the point now where I have to accept that the things which have kept me alive and allowed me to survive for so long, might not actually be in my best interest, and to be there for the parts that do feel ashamed etc and to process those feelings as they come up because they are mine, and I have to do that unfortunately. I think this is basically what you're saying rainy. It might be helpful to bring up with your t the situations where you feel the need to fawn as well.

If it were me, I would try to look at the intentions of and my experience with the person who this is coming from. Are they someone who's opinion that I value, and how did they broach the subject with me? I've had people tell me in the past that I need to be more confident etc without any knowledge of what I was going through, and yeah, maybe I do need to work on that, but they're not someone who's compassionate about my experience. So, I wouldn't take it as much to heart and would have been nice to have a boundary in place.

dolly

[Chart]

I think this is all weighing on me especially because I've been told by two different people that I am people pleasing.

One of those people is the therapist I am currently seeing and I have gained support from our conversations together until last week. 

I think she is trying to help me, but used the same words to describe my behavior as the words she used to describe the behavior of abusive people in my life.  I felt compared to them and then feel like "am I actually any better than these folks?"

RD, have you brought this up with your Therapist? I was rereading this and it struck me that it's a little "rough" for a T to lay out a judgment like that. I don't have all the details nor the exact context, but it is something you could come back to with her and express how it made you feel.

Don't know how you feel about that but it's an idea.

[rainydiary]

Hi Chart, I did end up telling the therapist what my experience was like.  I think she was just using words without understanding their impact.  I think she is a newer therapist too so is still growing.

[Desert Flower]

Hi everyone,
I think this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for bringing it up.

I understand Rainy you would find this term 'people-pleasing' derogatory, I might too, even though it may not have been meant that way. It takes a lot of insight to deal with survivors respectfully. Sometimes peope miss the mark, but I appreciate their trying (is that fawning? ;-).

For me, fawning is so much engrained into my system, I still have trouble recognising it. I was at a party the other day and only afterwards did I understand what I had been doing. Almost all of the people there were new to me, except for my husband. And even with him by my side, I still did almost nothing but fawn. There was this one guy who was obviously a bully and I did the most fawning with him. I'm almost sick with myself for doing so. But I know I must have been feeling so utterly unsafe there. Before, I would have thought that I was fine, but now I know that I absolutely was not. These survival tactics kick in so much earlier then I knew.

And then I think of my brother, who does not do any fawning, I'm always so proud of him, but I do realise he has his survival tactics too, and they may not be helpful either. We need a lot of work.

So for me, even if I cannot change it right now, being aware is the first step and I will try not to beat myself up for not changing my behaviour yet if I'm still too scared. And not feel ashamed for doing it in the first place. But be compassionate with myself instead.

 

[Kizzie]

So for me, even if I cannot change it right now, being aware is the first step and I will try not to beat myself up for not changing my behaviour yet if I'm still too scared. And not feel ashamed for doing it in the first place. But be compassionate with myself instead.

Spot on