not sure if this is common

[MountainGirl]

Again, I didn't know exactly where to post this question, but this area seemed about right . Please move if it's not. Somewhere on this site I saw a post about how painful it is for C-PTSD folks to encounter "normal" families, relationships. I would have thought that after all these years I would no longer feel pain at seeing normal mothers and daughters interact. But it really tears me up when I encounter families doing family stuff happily at the beach or mall or whatever. I never learned about traditional female culture - cooking, make up, dressing etc because my mother was always drunk - 24 hours a day every day, seven days a week month after month year after year until she died. She was wildly abusive so I avoided anything to do with female culture - it was clearly dangerous. But even now, after decades, seeing normal interactions just makes me feel like I want to howl with pain. And the normalcy of the therapist I rely on is now causing me problems. I want to cancel the whole therapy thing because this woman is so darn normal, with her life ahead of her, and my life has been so messed up. The contrast is painful. This is envy - and I worry it will mess up the therapy if I don't deal with it. Except - how? How humiliating to admit to jealousy. I figure I should just keep that info to myself, and yet the basis of the therapy is supposed to be honesty. Has anyone dealt with such a situation, and if so, how? Thanks for listening.

[Blueberry]

Maybe you're grieving the mother-daughter relationship you didn't have? Grieving is one of the steps on the road to recovery. I suppose most religions would tell us that envy is bad. But actually it's just a feeling and feelings aren't bad or good, they just are. What we do with them could be bad, but having them? No.

Admitting to the sides of me I'd rather not even look at, far less open up to people, has been a process for me. Mostly I have met people (therapists and others) along the way who have said that these sides of me are not the base evil I believed them to be but rather very normal human reactions. You've started opening up on the forum about it - first step   More steps will come.

I think any therapist worth their salt has sensed and/or heard about a whole run of feelings their clients have experienced vis-à-vis them AND can deal with it in a non-judgemental and helpful way.

[Maria S]

I agree with Blueberry: these are perfectly normal human feelings. Please do not be ashamed of them.  Of course you grieve the loving mother you never had. Of course you grieve the safe childhood you never had. Of course you want a life free of C-PTSD. I am so very sorry. But it is normal what you feel. All of it. These are the most basic things. Every human being longs for them. I think our families and societies often want us to calmly smile in lamentable circumstances. But sometimes howling is the normal response.

I would not even put this under the label of envy. To be honest. Even religiously. It is not that you want her pretty hair or wish to steal her husband. You mourn over something huge. . And need healing. Your therapist must understand this, and help you heal. I think you need not be afraid to share this. If your friend had lost a child, and got sad when seeing mothers and chlidren play? Would you judge her? Call her envious?

There's days I am fine. And there's days I have very sad and jealous and angry feelings about people who have normal lives. Especially if they judge me, for not being able to cope...with what they never had to deal with. There's days I have such angry thoughts about that, that you'd be startled to hear them. I think it is okay to have all these feelings, as long as you do not hurt people.

 

[MountainGirl]

Thank you for the insight Blueberry and Maria. Yes, there is real grief for the mother I never had, and yes, I think you're both right, these are normal feelings in the circumstances. Whether I have the courage to own up to jealousy in a therapy session though I don't know. But I guess I will try since honesty is needed in such a space.  And this young therapist's  superpower is caring, empathy. It's her strongest suit, so it is probably safe to acknowledge it. Thank you both for your replies. I don't feel quite so bad now with your sensible feedback.   

[NarcKiddo]

It honestly doesn't sound like envy to me, partly because if this is a normal therapeutic relationship you don't actually know all that much about her. So your view of what her life must be like is just that - your view. I agree with the suggestion that you may be grieving the lack of the mother you needed and deserve. There is nothing wrong with admitting that to your therapist, if you feel able to, and talking through with her the feelings that she is triggering.

I could be totally down the wrong path here, but might there also be an element of her being kind and empathic that is setting you off because you are not used to that? I am familiar with the situation where anything "nice" my mother did was laced with danger. So now if someone comes across as kind or caring or interested in me my first reaction is to be suspicious.

If you don't feel able to come out with all of your worries to your therapist in one go maybe you could think about whether there is one aspect that you could maybe touch on and see where the conversation leads? It may naturally grow into your feeling able to discuss the whole thing, but if you need to come at it several times from different directions over different sessions there is nothing wrong with that. You could maybe even consider finding some third party to discuss, if there is someone else that triggers these feelings, and tell your therapist you think you might be jealous of that person because of xyz. That way you can start discussing the issue without you feeling it is directly related to the therapist.

[MountainGirl]

Actually NK, you are correct that empathy freaks me out. I'm not sure why. I guess because I expect it to be snatched away and not be reliable. Same thing happens with compliments or people expressing affection for me. Totally freaks me out. It's nice, but also very scary so I try to avoid that. Thanks for pointing that out. It could be a factor. And no, I don't know a lot about the woman, but I do know that anyone who has her super power - caring - is unlikely to have been completely mangled by childhood or life in general. I do know she is on track to acquire the standard California "normal" life - family and a white picket fence home in one of the most expensive housing regions in the nation. A job at one of the most respected medical institutions not just in the nation but in the world. Yeah, this is at least in part envy. And grief for what never was in my life and which it is too late now to
find. Thanks for the reply NK. I will ponder your input.I think it is relevant. And today when I see her I will take your suggestion to start the conversation with a "third party." She is not the only person as you rightly guessed to have dredged up these feelings. Thanks Blueberry Maria and NarcKiddo . It helps, a lot, to have people who know C-PTSD respond. It helps to tamp down the confusion and, well, pain.

[AphoticAtramentous]

She was wildly abusive so I avoided anything to do with female culture - it was clearly dangerous. But even now, after decades, seeing normal interactions just makes me feel like I want to howl with pain. And the normalcy of the therapist I rely on is now causing me problems. I want to cancel the whole therapy thing because this woman is so darn normal, with her life ahead of her, and my life has been so messed up.

Hey MountainGirl, you're definitely not alone with those kinds of feelings. This section ^ especially resonated with me. It's so hard talking or interacting with people who are just... healthy, mentally and physically. It is not envy, just the natural desire to survive and live as expected of our species, the desire to have these healthy social connections we were meant to have - as the others have said very well.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[MountainGirl]

Thank you for your input Aphotic. It is such an enormous help to know that others have these feelings and reactions
too. It really amazes me that so many of us thought we were the only ones who struggled with such things, sometimes being alone with these problems  for decades. And then one day it turns out...Oh! There are others ? Lots and lots of other folks who know what this is like? That one realization by itself was tremendously liberating for me. So thank you Aphotic, and everyone here for being there...