Daniel Shaw article about relational system of traumatizing narcissist.

[steamy]

This is a very good piece. I recently worked for a traumatising narcissist, he is a neuro-surgeon.

He was always de-railing any scheme that wasn't his idea and blaming everybody but him self for organisational problems. The worst part was that he felt, and often verbalised that he was paying for all the ancillary staff out of his own pocket, who were lazy ungrateful and were wasting his money. At the same time he would pay minimal salaries and a few times staff have come to me telling me that he refused to pay them for their work.

The medical clinic made $4 million profit in its first year, after paying for is start up costs, including an MRI and a lab. Income is around $1 million a month, the three directors take home $70,000 per month each, yet he was always saying that the business was on the verge of collapse and we must cut costs.


Westerners would only last a few weeks or months but Asians, who saw the salary as being 2-3 times more than they could earn back home would grin and put up with it. This is the problem when your boss is a narcissist, people often see them as being successful high achievers and give them a lot of credibility and  when people need the job and the money walking away isn't an option.

I totally agree that narcissistic people are  also victims and we can't always hold it against them. Although if you reach such a high level in society a bit of emotional intelligence world be expected. I do think that when people are giving the narcissist the recognition he craves it is difficult for him to see his faults, after all he is successful.

Society rewards pathological personalities when they are wealthy, whereas for the rest of us we struggle and because we make little progress in the world ask ourselves all the painful questions about how our lives are such a struggle.

[arpy1]

Although if you reach such a high level in society a bit of emotional intelligence world be expected. I do think that when people are giving the narcissist the recognition he craves it is difficult for him to see his faults, after all he is successful.

i absolutely agree, steamy. sadly, it's 'success' and not emotional intelligence that is valued, which is why psychopathological personalities do so well in business, politics, religion etc. they are good at gaining and using power over others.

and it seems to me that it is the whole relational 'system', which these people are so adept at creating and maintaining around themselves, precludes any possibility of serious, effective challenge to their hegemony. that's how they have organised it, and that's how they manipulate and bully for it to remain. how a  challenge could be successful in such a case is something to ponder.

[Kizzie]

I do think that when people are giving the narcissist the recognition he craves it is difficult for him to see his faults, after all he is successful. Society rewards pathological personalities when they are wealthy, whereas for the rest of us we struggle and because we make little progress in the world ask ourselves all the painful questions about how our lives are such a struggle.

I was thinking of my FOO when I read this and it very much applies.  My NPD B was the Golden Child and could do no wrong and he believes that to this day, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. I used to wonder how that could be until I learned about PDs at OOTF. The same PD that protects him from feeling past trauma and much of anything real or authentic in the present, stops him from feeling what he needs to to be truly, fully human.

He was successful in sports and his career and there was never any challenge to his behaviour, except from me (the Scapegoat) and that just made me look bad of course. Even when his marriage failed he managed to come out smelling like a rose (i.e., it was all his ex-wife's fault).  Amazing!

Although I wish I did not have to contend with CPTSD, I am grateful I did not develop a PD because I see him nowadays as an empty shell living a superficial life. I am recovering and letting my real self rise to the surface and connect with life and others and I'm good with that. 

What I'm not good with is the damage NPDs cause - widespread like Bernie Madoff or more local like my B, it all adds up to trauma that cycles through the generations. By being here at OOTS I think/hope we are contributing to blowing away the fog those with PDs cloak themselves. We are speaking up and raising awareness among ourselves and hopefully in those around us.  Maybe as a result fewer people will  smile when the NPD neurosurgeon behaves abominably.  And that is a contribution to be proud of imo.   

[Shadowlight]

What a concise description of "cultism". So much of it resonated for me. Our family was secondary to the "cult" of dog shows. I can use the "DOG SHOW" metaphor in my creative writing to great effect. Food for thought. Thank you.