Miscellaneous ramblings of NarcKiddo

[Hope67]

Hi NarcKiddo,
I felt really angry about hearing that your M tried to burn your finger when you were a child, using that gas tap, to supposedly teach you a lesson - she was literally monstrous to do that.  I really wanted to say that.  I hope you don't mind my expressing my anger about it, but I do feel angry.  (I hope my anger isn't triggering). 

Anyway, you mentioned that you feel generally better about things (at least on 14th June) and I hope you are okay.   

 

[NarcKiddo]

Thank you ZR and Hope

I really wanted to say that.  I hope you don't mind my expressing my anger about it, but I do feel angry.  (I hope my anger isn't triggering). 

Thank you for being so caring in connection with anger, Hope. I know I've posted in the past about problems with anger, since my M was such a ball of rage and fury most of the time, and nobody else was allowed to have anger at all. My H tends to have outbursts about minor things, plus a bit of road rage from time to time, and that affects me very badly. So it was interesting to me to see my own reaction to your comment, and then to your acknowledgement that I might be triggered by it.

I wasn't at all triggered by it. In fact it was really helpful to see someone's measured response to what was, indeed, a monstrous thing to do to anyone, let alone a primary school age child. It is good for me to see that anger is a valid emotion in certain circumstances. It is right to feel angry about what my M did. It is good for me to be in a situation where anger has been generated over a situation I was involved in and yet to know with certainty that it wasn't my fault, and the anger is not directed at me, nor will it spill over onto me. In fact you took care to say that you hoped I wouldn't mind. This is a really good example of why interacting on this site is so therapeutic.

 

..................

I've been ridiculously worked up over one aspect of something my S said in a message. She listed domestic chores I can no longer do (in her opinion) due to my lung condition and said she assumed I have a cleaner to do that. It was framed as a question, though, and thus more like a requirement. You had better have a cleaner, or else. That's how the Littles took it, at any rate, and got really worked up. I don't need a cleaner and I don't have one. I don't want one, for all sorts of reasons. In any case, domestic tasks are actually good for me because they involve a certain amount of physical work but can easily be paced or done in chunks.

The Littles became terrified about having to say we don't have a cleaner and what the fallout from that might be. I chose simply to ignore the part about the cleaner when I replied about some other points raised in the message. Which was on family chat so M will have seen it. This was a couple of days ago so I thought I'd got away with it.

Then yesterday M sent a message on family chat about cleaners. She thought it looked oh-so-casual. Telling me about her new cleaner and then asking me about mine, with an apparently breezy assumption that I have one. Wanting to know how often she came and was she good. I made some comment about being glad she was pleased with her new cleaner and again ignored the questions about mine. The Littles became terrified again. M had already made offers in her gooey messages to pay for transport that I don't want or need and the Littles were terrified that if I tell her I don't have a cleaner she will insist on paying for one. I did my best to tell them that I can and will refuse a cleaner just as I refused her offer of help with transport costs. All these are things I can perfectly well afford if I want them and M knows this. But M has a habit of throwing money at problems she perceives, and providing money for things means she is entitled to ask about them and have contact for the purpose. I slept badly last night over this issue. It's so minor, and yet it's so huge.

Today I got a message from S asking about a safe subject (in her view) which may have been a prelude to asking about the cleaner business. I don't know. That's what the Littles thought, anyway. Then I saw I had missed a call from M and the Littles became even more convinced M wanted to know about the cleaner. So far I have simply been dodging a question I don't believe is their business, but if I get asked directly to my face I will say I do not have and do not want a cleaner and then deal with any fallout. The Littles were not happy but I rang M and we had a very stilted conversation. She made no mention of cleaners. Nor did I. Then I dealt with the message from S and so far nothing has been said about cleaners by her either.

In hindsight what I probably should have done when S first raised the issue was simply to say I don't have a cleaner and leave it at that. I didn't really want to answer her question because I felt it intrusive and also because it made me angry. The reason for that is that it's yet another example of FOO never asking what I want or need, and not listening to anything I say. They just make assumptions and dictate their view of the world. If I hold a different view I am the awkward one. I have made it clear since 2011 that lung issues need more exercise than less and, frankly, very few medical issues are improved by lying back on a bed with a hand to my forehead like some tragic heroine. But they have not heard me because they do not care to listen. It does not fit their world view.

[zen_racer]

I really wanted to say that.  I hope you don't mind my expressing my anger about it, but I do feel angry.  (I hope my anger isn't triggering). 

Thank you for being so caring in connection with anger, Hope. I know I've posted in the past about problems with anger, since my M was such a ball of rage and fury most of the time, and nobody else was allowed to have anger at all. My H tends to have outbursts about minor things, plus a bit of road rage from time to time, and that affects me very badly. So it was interesting to me to see my own reaction to your comment, and then to your acknowledgement that I might be triggered by it.

I wasn't at all triggered by it. In fact it was really helpful to see someone's measured response to what was, indeed, a monstrous thing to do to anyone, let alone a primary school age child. It is good for me to see that anger is a valid emotion in certain circumstances. It is right to feel angry about what my M did. It is good for me to be in a situation where anger has been generated over a situation I was involved in and yet to know with certainty that it wasn't my fault, and the anger is not directed at me, nor will it spill over onto me. In fact you took care to say that you hoped I wouldn't mind. This is a really good example of why interacting on this site is so therapeutic.

 

I want to thank both of you for this, Hope and NK.  I did have a reaction to reading about that part as well, but I didn't even know how to recognize what it was, and was worried about bringing it up.  Like NK, I was never allowed to express anger.  But I was the odd duck in my family with that.  It was okay for my M to rage at everyone.  It was okay for my D to rage at M.  It was okay for my brother to be mad and beat me.  But if I was ever angry, then it was a huge issue.  I too don't know how to express anger appropriately, or recognize it as a good thing.

But even more than that, this exchange is a great example for me to learn from so I can become better at validating experiences and feelings when I'm responding here, and probably in life away from the forum as well.

NK, I'm sorry that happened.  Intentionally burning anyone, let alone a child is monstrous. 


I also relate to this part soooooo much.

"In hindsight what I probably should have done when S first raised the issue was simply to say I don't have a cleaner and leave it at that. I didn't really want to answer her question because I felt it intrusive and also because it made me angry. The reason for that is that it's yet another example of FOO never asking what I want or need, and not listening to anything I say. They just make assumptions and dictate their view of the world. If I hold a different view I am the awkward one. I have made it clear since 2011 that lung issues need more exercise than less and, frankly, very few medical issues are improved by lying back on a bed with a hand to my forehead like some tragic heroine. But they have not heard me because they do not care to listen. It does not fit their world view."

My FOO always assumes I don't know what's best for me regarding anything.  In the past few years, I've started throwing so much stuff away when I directly tell them I don't want something and they bring it to my house anyway.  At this point, I don't care if it was expensive and brand new.  If I told them I don't want it and they bring it here, it does not enter the house.  That 100% refusal to ever hear anything I say or accept that my view point matters, especially when I'm the subject expert, is a lot of the reason I am starting to feel that NC is the only way for me to make any progress in healing.

I'm sorry that your FOO is so similar to mine.  I definitely understand how that is.  The way you explained the questions they've been asking raised alarm bells for me, so I definitely understand your Little's reactions.

  

[NarcKiddo]

In hindsight what I probably should have done when S first raised the issue was simply to say I don't have a cleaner and leave it at that. I didn't really want to answer her question because I felt it intrusive and also because it made me angry.

I had a session with T today and was talking about the latest visit, the walking poles, and 'Cleanergate'. I was also chatting with someone from here the other day and they made an observation that I had not thought of. They very astutely pointed out that if my walking poles, dizzy spells etc were brought up over lunch or during the visit, that would have put all the attention on me. By saying nothing during the visit and then messaging me to say how worried she was, M kept the attention firmly on her.

T and I spent a fair bit of time on Cleanergate because the Littles had such a strong reaction to it. T was exploring that with me. As I said myself in the quote above, if adult NK had been fully in charge here I would nipped the discussion in the bud as soon as S raised it. But I didn't and then when M raised it later I became entrenched in refusing to answer the question. That does not feel like an adult response, and I had started to wonder if teenage NK had got in on the act. Little NK was abjectly terrified that we were going to have a cleaner forced upon us, but that's her only involvement, I think. But my first reaction to the suggestion was angry, not scared. I realised that the reaction was angry because someone (Teenage NK) had immediately smelled a rat. She knew the cleaner issue did not come from S. This was S doing M's bidding, and part of the refusal to respond to S was to flush out M. Which of course happened when M messaged on the subject later.

I realised this because I was exploring what about the cleaner issue had made me angry. The message from S was very long and the cleaner was only a small part of it. The rest of it was her usual questions about my condition. She has always done this - asked endless questions to appear interested. But I had time to answer them and although they were a bit annoying I was OK with replying, and I did. At length, until S got bored and stopped. The questions that were genuinely from S did not trigger me in the way the cleaner question did. They were irksome, but straight from S. Teenage NK had spotted the triangulation in the cleaner question at once. Unfortunately adult NK did not, because I was so busy dealing with Little NK's worry.

Thank you, Teenage NK, for spotting what I did not and for making sure M was flushed out so your point could be proved. I think you were a bit spooked by Little NK possibly falling for the gooey, hoovering messages, and wanted to make sure the situation was exposed for what it was.

[Blueberry]

Just want to say I read your post, NK. Good for you on figuring out what went on between Teenage you, Little you and Adult you.

[sanmagic7]

 

NK, it infuriates me when FOO or adult children try to run the lives of adults. my friend has 2 adult daughters who are always on her about every little thing, whether it's something about her health, her mind (mom, you need to get checked for dementia - you forget too much), how she spends her money - any little thing.  and to save herself from having to listen to it, she goes ahead and does what they think she needs to do.  or tries to hide it.  either way, they don't allow her to be herself for herself. sounds like the same as your FOO.  meddling.  i'm angry for you, but not in any rage way (i also had a husband w/ rage issues and it's very different from normal anger - scary)

so, if your hindsight is correct, maybe now it's just something to learn from for the next time, if there is one.  love and hugs

[HannahOne]

NK, so glad you can keep track of little's experiences and make adult choices for the best for yourself. The meddling is just inane! Have they nothing better to do than try to control other people? You know what's best for you and are entirely capable of accessing resources if you want opinions.

[zen_racer]

NK, your ability to understand what's going on is so impressive to me.  For the LittleNK, TeenageNK, and Adult NK because it's still such a mystery to me, but also for how you spotted what's going on with your FOO.  I like how you recognized how TeenageNK was acting for your benefit to help keep you safe.

 

[NarcKiddo]

Thanks, everyone. 

ZR - it's taken me a long while to work out what Littles are there. There may even be more than I currently name, but most things fit with Little or Teenage. Teenage is a bit of a conundrum at times and I cannot always spot when she is around or influencing matters, partly because it seems to be Teenage at the root of most, if not all, of my dissociation so the minute she gets triggered Adult NK is often shoved out of the picture. Even in this latest debacle I initially thought Adult NK was making decisions that Teenage NK was in fact responsible for. One of the things I find so helpful about journaling, here and privately, and discussing with T, is that I have learned to pay close attention to all emotional reactions, however fleeting, and all slight feelings of doubt about a situation. When looked at more fully they usually reveal the involvement of a Little that I may not have noticed at the time. I don't necessarily find it all that helpful to notice if a Little is there at the time because it's usually a FOO horror show that demands my full attention and worrying too much about the Littles at the same time is beyond me when things are going South fast. But it is helpful to know at some point, because then I can work out the triggers better and sometimes I can defuse situations in advance. For instance when visiting FOO I have taken to telling Little NK in advance that she need not come to the visit at all. It's my visit and I will handle it. That doesn't necessarily stop her being there but it's more like a kid watching the adults through the stair banisters rather than her thinking she has to control the situation and then panicking.

................

I thought I should phone FOO for Father's Day but I don't want to so I haven't. M has just started spamming chat with inane messages. Last thing on there is an uncomfortable direct question I asked her last week. She has declined to answer and I think she wants it off the page.

I've started reading Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It's been on my desk since 2023 and I don't know why I have only just started it, as I have bought and read several trauma related books in the meantime. There are various questionnaires throughout the book about parental behaviours, and the idea is you tick off which ones apply (you do a separate one for each parent). Then the author says that if you have ticked off more than one, the likelihood is you are dealing with an emotionally immature parent. So far I have ticked most of them in every single questionnaire! Lucky old me! Gold star ranking in the emotionally immature parent stakes. I am slightly bothered about the fact that I could tick quite a few concerning myself, though. I am so far being kind to myself on the basis that those reactions in my case are more emotional reactions than actual behaviours. They likely come from the Littles and why should the Littles not be emotionally immature? They are, after all, children, who never had any emotional guidance at the time.

[zen_racer]

 
That seems like a lot to keep track of with the Littles.  I like how you described being thorough in writing down all the emotional reactions to look at later.  It makes sense that trying to figure it all out in the moment might be a bit much, but understanding it later would be a benefit.  Thank you for sharing that.

There are various questionnaires throughout the book about parental behaviours, and the idea is you tick off which ones apply (you do a separate one for each parent). Then the author says that if you have ticked off more than one, the likelihood is you are dealing with an emotionally immature parent. So far I have ticked most of them in every single questionnaire! Lucky old me! Gold star ranking in the emotionally immature parent stakes.

I relate a little too much with this.  I do have that book, but switched to reading Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving.  I've also found some of the sheets and questionaires on the forum regarding cptsd, and I scored very high on those.  I think there's only one type of trauma I'm missing.  Yay. LOL

[HannahOne]

NK I too have avoided that book and recently revisited it. I too sometimes feel anxious when reading these kinds of books as of course I am not a paragon of emotional maturity---most people aren't. And I too start to worry if I am like my abusers. I think that's a natural concern. Of course, narcissistic people never worry if they are abusers.

So I just wanted to say that yes, little ones are emotionally immature. The difference that we are trying to live into between us and our abusers is in part that very compassion that you have for your little ones, that you don't expect them to be adults, abusive people lose compassion in the moment. As you are having compassion, you know that you are exhibiting maturity. The other difference I think is that very awareness that there ARE little ones---and that you, the Adult, are in charge of and taking care of them as much as possible. That's different than people who let their little ones run the show, act out without remorse, without awareness and without repair. We're only human, join the party, none of us behave perfectly all the time. And, the awareness and compassion are differences that make a difference to us and to those around us.

[sanmagic7]

NK, i admire your self-awareness, especially w/ your Littles, and I agree - those are the emotionally immature parts of us who weren't taught how to successfully grow into mature adults.  those are the parts that were left behind when our growth and integration into an ever-increasing emotional maturity as we aged, that were never taught, either by word or action, what it takes to mature, what steps to take when it's time for us to move up the ladder of emotional maturity.  if our parents weren't emotionally mature, they had none of that to hand down to us.  so, we were put out to sea in a boat w/o a paddle.

lots of great work here - keep it up, ok?  it sounds to me like you're learning exactly what you need to keep healing and recovering.  love and hugs

[Marcine]

Hi NK,
"I thought I should phone FOO for Father's Day but I don't want to so I haven't."

Should
Don't want to
Haven't

[Blueberry]