i need loving relationships?

[reluctantastronaut]

i feel like i, as most people, need loving relationships to recover from trauma. but i get the message constantly that what i need to recover is to do a huge list of things, none of which are dependent on having someone else in your life, and if i can do those things ill be ok. but how can i do those things without any family i feel safe with, and without friends? if im completely alone in my inner life, how can i concentrate on loving myself or accepting myself when im starving for safe affection and intimacy?
ive been trying to make friends for the last 2 years, and i cant. very few of my familial relationships are healthy and the ones that are i still feel unsafe with because of the excuses and attitudes towards my mother. i cant stand feeling so uncared for and alone much longer. there are people i have positive interactions with but i doubt any of them would ever want an actual connection with me. but im barely functioning with my day to day life. i need something to change but i dont know how to overcome this obstacle

[Dutch Uncle]

Do you mean by "loving", 'romantically involved'? Which might include having sex?

I can relate to your longing, I have it too, yet I'm a 20-year long bachelor (I'm not going to get into my sexlife). I do have a few loving relations though, that don't include 'romance'. Yet we do say "I love you" now and then, and we do, and we know it.
The gates that open when you talk with somebody, and affirm somebody (or get affirmed by somebody) by simply saying: "That's why I love you." So very few people do this, and I had to make a conscious effort to start it as well. Most people don't reciprocate in kind though, but the few that do: Golden.
Or "I love this", when you see something beautiful happening. Or a beautiful thing, an object or a plant or an animal or a landscape or a sky etc.
I'm happy I have a few people that love me, even if I wouldn't have them as a life's partner, and I love them.

[I like vanilla]

reluctantastronaut that is a tough one, and I think an issue that many of us are struggling with or have struggled with; how to find safe, loving people to support us especially when our FOOs were not safe. How can we be in safe loving relationships when we not only have no idea what that looks like but also were often actively taught that unhealthy, unsafe relationships represented 'love'?

I have struggled with this problem myself, and while I have been making friends with healthy people (or one who at least are on their own healing journeys) I am still struggling against childhood messages that have generally 'forbidden' me from engaging in healthy relationships, and especially supportive relationships outside my FOO (and I have been NC with my parents for more than 5 years and LC for a good 5 years before that - sorry, did not mean to be discouraging. It DOES GET BETTER and it DOES GET EASIER but it also does take work). Here is a list of some things that have been helpful for me. They might or might not be helpful for you so please feel welcome to use, ignore, and/or modify as best suits you.

>learning to have good boundaries.
-Good boundaries make for good friends. Healthy, or 'healthy enough' people are uncomfortable interacting with those who have poor boundaries (too rigid or too weak).
-Predatory people, on the other hand, have an instinct to be attracted to those with poor boundaries.

>recognizing different levels of 'friendship'
-learning the difference between acquaintances, friends, romantic partners, close friends, buddies, etc. is important
-when I first started making friends, I did not know the difference, often telling too much to people who were not at a close enough level, but also not able to ask for help from people who would otherwise be close enough to 'expect to' be asked for help from me

>Remembering that it is as/more important to know if I like the other person as it is whether or not they like me
-I used to approach relationships with a 'I hope they like me, what can I do to make them like me?, like me, like me, like me!!' attitude.
-this is poor boundaries and often a turn off to healthy/healthy enough people
-now, I pay more attention to who the other person is as a human being, asking 'how does this person treat me?', 'how do they treat others? (e.g. the cashier at the store)', 'how do they interact with their friends?', etc.
-I refuse to 'fight' to have someone like me. If they do and I like them then I continue the interactions. If they do not like me, then I do my best to let it go and move on. If I do not like them then I let it go and move on.

>I listen to what the other person says about themselves
-this, for me, is particularly important in potentially romantic situations, but still applies in all levels of relationships
-e.g. if the person says 'sometimes I can be a real a$$hole, then I believe them. No one, especially at the start of a relationship has a reason to lie about being a jerk. If someone says something like that then they usually mean it. I have no wish to be with someone who is an a$$hole, so I know to take them at their word and move on.
-I have also had that one thrown back at me - 'I don't know why you are upset that I acted like a jerk, I told you from the beginning that I can be a real a$$hole sometimes'. So, really, now if someone says something like that then I BELIEVE THEM.

>Recognizing that no one is ever going to be a 'perfect friend', nor are most people 'perfect enemies' (personally, I exclude the Cluster B people - I do not really view them as 'perfect enemies' as I do not wish to invest that energy in them, but I do stay far away knowing they would be perfect enemies were i to stay engaged with them)
-personally, I was raised in a system of 'that person is a saint who can walk on water' or 'that person is a devil who must be denigrated and shunned' with nothing in between. NO person fits in either category. EVERYONE in healthy friendships will do their best but sometimes make mistakes in their interactions with each other. Making a mistake is NOT an indication that the person can never more be trusted. The way that they respond to the mistake, however, gives some hints.

>I follow 'the rule of three'
-recognizing that people in healthy relationships sometimes make mistakes and hurt one another, how to know if they are trustworthy or should be kept as friends? For me, the rule of three comes in.
-the first time someone does something that hurts/offends me it is an 'accident' (they might have different perspective and could not know I would be hurt or offended). The second time is a 'coincidence' or 'oops' (they are still learning to remember it hurts/offends me). The third time is a pattern and time to rethink the relationship
-For example, if someone does something that hurts me, e.g. teases me about a particular sore spot, I say 'when you tease me about that I feel hurt, please stop.' If the person apologizes and indicates they will do differently in the future then I accept the apology and move on in the relationship (they could not know that it hurt me until I told them so 'not their fault').
-if the person teases me in the same way the second time, I again say, 'please remember it hurts me when you do that, please stop'. If the apology is genuine and the attempt to change genuine then we move on.
-if the person does it a third time then I rethink whether I wish to maintain the type of relationship that I have with them (either scaling back to a more distant level, or dropping the relationship altogether).

>Getting out of the house more
-I am an introvert and enjoy my 'alone time'. BUT staying home is highly unlikely to lead to opportunities to meet others who might become friends/acquaintances/romantic partners, etc.
-BUT I do NOT 'hunt' for friends, etc. while there. I go to enjoy the activity and learn new things while doing my best to hold back from the idea 'I am doing this to make friends, what if I don't make friends, then I'm a failure, I need to make them like me!' spiral. Difficult yes, but the more I hold back from that, the more I have made real friends (and the less I am preyed upon by those who would do me harm)
-sticking to topics/activities that genuinely interest me helps with that. Getting into the topic relieves the 'I'm there to make friends' impulse because I am there to 'get something out of it - learning, fun, possible friendships, etc.)
-now, I volunteer with a group of people working on projects in my community. I have been with the group for years. So far, all of these people remain my 'teammates' which we are all happy with. Recently, one has started to become more of a real friend. That makes me happy too.
-I have also taken classes at the community centre. Some of the individuals in the classes are becoming my friends.
-I have participated in meetup groups related to my interests. I have developed several genuine friendships through these activities.

>I have been doing my best to take things slowly
-by going slowly, I have time to listen to my instincts about people and decide whether or not I wish to be friends with them. I am able to evaluate their behaviour towards me and others. I ease the pressure to 'make them like me' by giving us both time to see whether or not we like each other. I remove the pressure to tell too much too soon, etc.

I am learning to value myself
-I have been working with a therapist especially on this one
-by valuing myself, I am learning to KNOW and to BELIEVE that I DESERVE to be in HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS.
-without that belief I was continually being drawn into co-dependent relationships, which were harmful to me, and often to the other person
-now I know that I am worthy of, that I deserve to be in relationships where people value me for who I am.
-for that to happen, I had to first learn to value myself for who I am, or at least to value myself 'enough' to start healthy interactions and end unhealthy ones.

I hope some of that might be useful to you. Again, only you know your circumstances, feelings, preferences, etc. Only you can choose what works for you. Please use, ignore, and/or modify any or all of the above as best suits what you want and need.

Sending good thoughts 

[anon72]

reluctantastronaut that is a tough one, and I think an issue that many of us are struggling with or have struggled with; how to find safe, loving people to support us especially when our FOOs were not safe. How can we be in safe loving relationships when we not only have no idea what that looks like but also were often actively taught that unhealthy, unsafe relationships represented 'love'?

I have struggled with this problem myself, and while I have been making friends with healthy people (or one who at least are on their own healing journeys) I am still struggling against childhood messages that have generally 'forbidden' me from engaging in healthy relationships, and especially supportive relationships outside my FOO (and I have been NC with my parents for more than 5 years and LC for a good 5 years before that - sorry, did not mean to be discouraging. It DOES GET BETTER and it DOES GET EASIER but it also does take work). Here is a list of some things that have been helpful for me. They might or might not be helpful for you so please feel welcome to use, ignore, and/or modify as best suits you.

>learning to have good boundaries.
-Good boundaries make for good friends. Healthy, or 'healthy enough' people are uncomfortable interacting with those who have poor boundaries (too rigid or too weak).
-Predatory people, on the other hand, have an instinct to be attracted to those with poor boundaries.

>recognizing different levels of 'friendship'
-learning the difference between acquaintances, friends, romantic partners, close friends, buddies, etc. is important
-when I first started making friends, I did not know the difference, often telling too much to people who were not at a close enough level, but also not able to ask for help from people who would otherwise be close enough to 'expect to' be asked for help from me

>Remembering that it is as/more important to know if I like the other person as it is whether or not they like me
-I used to approach relationships with a 'I hope they like me, what can I do to make them like me?, like me, like me, like me!!' attitude.
-this is poor boundaries and often a turn off to healthy/healthy enough people
-now, I pay more attention to who the other person is as a human being, asking 'how does this person treat me?', 'how do they treat others? (e.g. the cashier at the store)', 'how do they interact with their friends?', etc.
-I refuse to 'fight' to have someone like me. If they do and I like them then I continue the interactions. If they do not like me, then I do my best to let it go and move on. If I do not like them then I let it go and move on.

>I listen to what the other person says about themselves
-this, for me, is particularly important in potentially romantic situations, but still applies in all levels of relationships
-e.g. if the person says 'sometimes I can be a real a$$hole, then I believe them. No one, especially at the start of a relationship has a reason to lie about being a jerk. If someone says something like that then they usually mean it. I have no wish to be with someone who is an a$$hole, so I know to take them at their word and move on.
-I have also had that one thrown back at me - 'I don't know why you are upset that I acted like a jerk, I told you from the beginning that I can be a real a$$hole sometimes'. So, really, now if someone says something like that then I BELIEVE THEM.

>Recognizing that no one is ever going to be a 'perfect friend', nor are most people 'perfect enemies' (personally, I exclude the Cluster B people - I do not really view them as 'perfect enemies' as I do not wish to invest that energy in them, but I do stay far away knowing they would be perfect enemies were i to stay engaged with them)
-personally, I was raised in a system of 'that person is a saint who can walk on water' or 'that person is a devil who must be denigrated and shunned' with nothing in between. NO person fits in either category. EVERYONE in healthy friendships will do their best but sometimes make mistakes in their interactions with each other. Making a mistake is NOT an indication that the person can never more be trusted. The way that they respond to the mistake, however, gives some hints.

>I follow 'the rule of three'
-recognizing that people in healthy relationships sometimes make mistakes and hurt one another, how to know if they are trustworthy or should be kept as friends? For me, the rule of three comes in.
-the first time someone does something that hurts/offends me it is an 'accident' (they might have different perspective and could not know I would be hurt or offended). The second time is a 'coincidence' or 'oops' (they are still learning to remember it hurts/offends me). The third time is a pattern and time to rethink the relationship
-For example, if someone does something that hurts me, e.g. teases me about a particular sore spot, I say 'when you tease me about that I feel hurt, please stop.' If the person apologizes and indicates they will do differently in the future then I accept the apology and move on in the relationship (they could not know that it hurt me until I told them so 'not their fault').
-if the person teases me in the same way the second time, I again say, 'please remember it hurts me when you do that, please stop'. If the apology is genuine and the attempt to change genuine then we move on.
-if the person does it a third time then I rethink whether I wish to maintain the type of relationship that I have with them (either scaling back to a more distant level, or dropping the relationship altogether).

>Getting out of the house more
-I am an introvert and enjoy my 'alone time'. BUT staying home is highly unlikely to lead to opportunities to meet others who might become friends/acquaintances/romantic partners, etc.
-BUT I do NOT 'hunt' for friends, etc. while there. I go to enjoy the activity and learn new things while doing my best to hold back from the idea 'I am doing this to make friends, what if I don't make friends, then I'm a failure, I need to make them like me!' spiral. Difficult yes, but the more I hold back from that, the more I have made real friends (and the less I am preyed upon by those who would do me harm)
-sticking to topics/activities that genuinely interest me helps with that. Getting into the topic relieves the 'I'm there to make friends' impulse because I am there to 'get something out of it - learning, fun, possible friendships, etc.)
-now, I volunteer with a group of people working on projects in my community. I have been with the group for years. So far, all of these people remain my 'teammates' which we are all happy with. Recently, one has started to become more of a real friend. That makes me happy too.
-I have also taken classes at the community centre. Some of the individuals in the classes are becoming my friends.
-I have participated in meetup groups related to my interests. I have developed several genuine friendships through these activities.

>I have been doing my best to take things slowly
-by going slowly, I have time to listen to my instincts about people and decide whether or not I wish to be friends with them. I am able to evaluate their behaviour towards me and others. I ease the pressure to 'make them like me' by giving us both time to see whether or not we like each other. I remove the pressure to tell too much too soon, etc.

I am learning to value myself
-I have been working with a therapist especially on this one
-by valuing myself, I am learning to KNOW and to BELIEVE that I DESERVE to be in HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS.
-without that belief I was continually being drawn into co-dependent relationships, which were harmful to me, and often to the other person
-now I know that I am worthy of, that I deserve to be in relationships where people value me for who I am.
-for that to happen, I had to first learn to value myself for who I am, or at least to value myself 'enough' to start healthy interactions and end unhealthy ones.

I hope some of that might be useful to you. Again, only you know your circumstances, feelings, preferences, etc. Only you can choose what works for you. Please use, ignore, and/or modify any or all of the above as best suits what you want and need.

Sending good thoughts 

Reluctantastronaut, just wanted you to know that I am struggling with the very same question - if that helps   Am guessing it will take time to figure this all out.  At the moment, it seems that people are avoiding me, as I am not exactly the most fun person to be around, have some depression & anxiety, and find it difficult to concentrate at work and be sociable - so don't have to worry about people "lining" up to be friendly and hang out with me

I like Vanilla - just wanted to thank you for this post, it made a lot of sense - and definitely something I can use also   Thanks also for the encouragement that it does get easier.  It has only been one month since I finally realized that my mum was uBPD and that I may have CPTSD.  Funny how for so long we never thought about how important it was what we thought about the other person - only worried about whether or not they liked us??  I am not there yet, but know that I need to start creating boundaries and taking time to let people get close to me etc.  Anyways, I am still in shock at the moment (and doing a lot of reading on these websites to try and make sense of it all).  I have days when I feel like I am getting better, then followed by more days when it feels like my CBT & mindfulness is not really working - as I am stuck in those bad old grooves.  But glad to hear that it will get better slowly but surely!  Thank you. 

[Pieces]

i feel like i, as most people, need loving relationships to recover from trauma

To recover from trauma you need a loving relationship with yourself. Feeling safe has to do with feeling confident in being who you are, it's not something people or things outside of you can give you.

Ask yourself what you need and then work on giving that to yourself. That will make your rich personality wise and give your something to share with others

[Jewel]

Hey, reluctantastronaut.  Great question.  I get it.  I've asked myself that same question previously.

Here's what I've noticed, based on my experience--food for thought only: The relationships I developed while I was experiencing but unconscious about my CPTSD have all gone away.  I divorced myself from those who got some sort of sick pleasure out of my being wounded.  And I've also moved away from friends who don't GET it, who just want me to "get over it."  And some friends let me go because I was "weird" and couldn't "get over it."

So at 53, I find myself alone.  Someday I'd like to be in an intimate, loving relationship.  And I'd like to have a circle of friends.  But I'm okay with my solitude for now.  I still have too many unhealthy, habituated ways of being.  I'm working on them and can see that someday I'll be in a healthier place.  I've given myself permission to put relationships on hold for a time, to give myself some time to heal further.  I definitely don't want to meet anyone now and potentially risk repeating old patterns of how I've been with others.

No matter who or who isn't in my life, I'M always in my life.  Right now, that's the single most important relationship for me, the one I have with myself.  So while I'm lonely, I understand that it's temporary.

Wishing you all the best in your journey--and peace.