Dissociation v depersonalisation v derealization

[Snookiebookie]

Hi

I just wondered what the difference was between these?  Are they all part of the same thing?

I only fully dissociate occasionally. But I think what I experienced regularly/daily is depersonalisation.  I kind feel that I'm not in my body.  When I do dissociate, I find it hard to believe that I'm me - does that make sense?

I find it hard to accept that I'm actually living my life. Like it'some mistake that I'm alive.  It's like I should not have the burden or responsibility of conducting a life.

I often feel that "I" don't belong to the body that I see. I'm often surprised by my refection and images. I often feel that my "being" is different to everyone else's.

I'm often not quite "present", whilst being aware of my surroundings.  I'm often elsewhere in my head, like a parallel universe. It's often said in in my own world.  For decades I used to do maladaptive daydreaming. That's been taken over by the automatic negative thoughts/intrusive thoughts.

[Cookido]

Hi Snookiebookie!

I relate to a couple of things in your post, especially that it's all very confusing. I was told by someone that there's a lot of missinformation about dissociation as well. OOTS has some good articles though.

One of them talked about different forms of dissociation. The two I remember (because I could recognize them in myself) was dissociating from your feelings and then dissociation with memory loss.

I think depersonalisation is when you lose sense of reality, who you are and the example you gave, not recognising oneself in the mirror.

When I dissociate I usually feel like the "I" is in my head and not my body. I watch things from a distance and don't feel in touch with what's going on around me.

[woodsgnome]

Whatever it's called, I often feel like a visitor from someplace other than what is known as reality. And no, I'm not talking about airy fairy theories about UFO's and all that sensationalized stuff. Just the everyday which feels off.

A lot of it I think is dissociation, in the sense of feeling not in synch with much of society. Early on I seemed to have an inside voice whispering "what's wrong with this picture?"; growing into the panic of "get me out of here". This started with abuse, when dissociating was my escape route to avoid at least some of the pain and hate I seemed enveloped in; I was recoiling from the disconnect, the mismatch between what I was told mattered (love, god, etc.) and the hypocrisy that was called ordinary.

I suppose that made me an idealist reactionary in my front row seat with the hypocrites, especially as I grew older. More often it seemed like I was  fading in and out  , something I still do depending on what triggers me. If I ever thought about it, depersonalization seems along the lines of what the abusers wanted--to make me more like them than the rebel they considered me to be because I dared to ask questions and really believe the story that it was alright to think. If you sense a religious tinge to all of this, you're right; so that adds whole layers of confusion, guilt, and shame--from their skewed perspective.

How does this work for me now? In practical terms, let's say I'm talking to someone and some word or phrase that was once used to hurt me is in the mix, perhaps innocently but still there; and/or the other person just reminds me of some of my past abusers. I might notice a cringe for a moment, and I just might do a fadeout where I miss entirely what they're saying, as if a cocoon has been thrown over to protect me.

That seems more akin to dissociation than being wholly depersonalized, as I seem to still have a sense of self within, which reacts to the trigger, and then "I" might seem to be standing there, but in fact I'm bracing in protective stance or maybe worse, there but not there...but with personality still intact, even if hidden inside. Sometimes I feel that if I didn't dissociate, I'd explode  or react over-the-top.

I hope that's not too convoluted, and/or true to the established definitions, which in my experience are more flexible than they're often regarded; i.e. they're guidelines, not hard and fast rules. Hopefully they can help with understanding.

Something else, for me, is to consider dissociation as an internal response (even if involuntary) while regarding depersonalization as something inflicted from outside.

[Rowan]

Hi hon.

Depersonalisation is a form of dissociation where you are not a person/ part of society, or other sense of significant detachment from the rest of humanity.

De realisation is a form of dissociation where it feels fake/artificial, distorted, unbound (especially time).

Dysphoria is a form of dissociative experience where your self image doesn't reconcile to the physical reality of your body - it's sort of like derealisation, but can be very specific (for example, I have dysphoria regarding my genitals - my brain doesn't believe that they are there; and my voice sounds wrong). This is typically experienced when we do not recognise ourselves in a mirror.

For me, my dissociative experiences fall into all three. When an event happens, there is a pervasive feeling of being alien, perspective, size and time all fall apart , so simple things can take 20 minutes, and my 1 hour therapy sessions, disappear in a blink - underlying that is my dysphoria that is 24/7 - hence why I fall under the transgender umbrella... hopefully that makes sense.

Another view is (to borrow an expression from the autistic world) that whatever neurotypicals think they are, and what is, we think we are not, and it is not. Effectively self isolation and exclusion - we re-examine everything, and don't trust or take anything for granted. And we then have to relearn those skills....




Rowan- still not sure if that makes sense....

[radical]

I had been both depersonalised and derealised for decades. Less now, but I have a long ways to go.

For me, they are about not really living from the inside (myself) outwards, but a bit like the reverse - feeling myself to be an object to rather than subject.  This has always been central to my CPTSD

Depersonalisation has been about not feeling a solid sense of self, not being fully embodied or occupying space, clearly.  Derealisation arises from depersonalisation, - the world feeling unreal - like the painted props in a play, two rather than multi-dimensional.

The self-consciousness related to social anxiety is a bit of a misnomer.  In depersonalisation, it's about the opposite in  a way - other people's feelings, attitudes, desires etc., outweighing mine, defining me, because of not having a solid sense of self,  and therefore experiencing myself more as an object to others (even a peripheral one), and only weakly, the subject of my own life..  Being genuinely self-conscious - ie living and being in the world as subject,  the centre of my own experience rather than an object (useful or not, liked or disliked etc,,) in the more powerful experience of others, makes social anxiety pretty meaningless.  There may be a fear of others but not engulfment by others, or extreme encroachment where others experiences desires etc., eclipse my own.