Somehow not destroyed -- repairing/restoring my boundaries

[SonOfTheLoveless]

Sorry Woodsgnome if I have been hijacking your thread.  (I easily get caught up in enthusiasm and in a conversation, forgetting the context of things.  Also, I seem to have a hard time ignoring things and fighting my automatic response to reply to EVERYTHING.  I have all the ADHD symptoms.:-))

So 'recovery' -- as in returning to a certain state of mind or time -- brings up a mind-space which can trigger my memory.

Understood.  However, these same memories (which are admittedly gruesome), don't they *also* generate energy, energy that helps bring you forward on the path of becoming your own person?  I mean, looking back and remembering is NOT ONLY an abhorrent thing, it is ALSO a helpful thing (despite being abhorrent).  The very gruesomeness of the things from the past push you forward.  At least that is how I in my own situation perceive (experience, feel) things.  Is it different in your case?

Bringing this thread back to where it started, my desire to re-establish firm boundaries with a bothersome sibling was my main point. Not without lots of internal struggle, I felt like this time I was better at firmly communicating this, but as I was dealing with a narcissistic sibling it remains to be seen if it truly took hold. I at least feel like this action helped me further down my new trail.

Yes!!  Definitely.  This is a success.  I would say, if the very *conflict* (the confrontation with that narc sibling) pushes the "Higher Self" to come out as an automatic response then you have, to all intents and purposes, basically recovered.  Your "wiring", the normal healthy wiring that a healthy person has to resist assaults upon their "self", has already recovered to a good base level.

which is what I meant by referring to what I call "higher Self".

Sorry.  You are right.  I have been nitpicking on words.  The word doesn't matter, it's only the meaning that matters.

Be well and be strong.

[woodsgnome]

No need for apologies -- threads can serve well as discussion starters. As such they might roam bit; which is a good deal, as the thread's originator is usually appreciative of a wider perspective. At least I know I am.

I probably didn't have to include my little off-beat comment on how the word 'recovery' can be a tad tricky for me. That aside is just indicative of my tendency to play 'outside the box' when it comes to definitions. Having survived radical abuse, it's my way of being a bit counter-radical. Or it might just reflect the notion that Walker has -- about 'freeze' survivors being drawn to mindful expansiveness.

I heartily agree, despite the pain, with the assessment that even the old hurts can be absorbed into one's new viewpoint. Awful as they are, I feel that while they can't be wholly eliminated from one's psyche, they can sometime be transformed. Like painting a new picture over an old previously illustrated canvas. While the original scene may be obscured, the memory of it is intact. And from that, it may hurt but it also makes one more discerning, and/or compassionate considering what went before.

This reminds me of the Japanese art form known as kintsugi, which involves literally picking up the pieces and starting over. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUTQkaSSTY&ab_channel=TheSchoolofLife

I like that outlook, and still repairing (recovering) the original vessel (myself). Healing it, as it were; but making it better.

Take care.

[SonOfTheLoveless]

Hello Woodsgnome,

Then I will immediately abuse your hospitality and go on roaming again:

but it also makes one more discerning, and/or compassionate considering what went before.

Lately the thought is sometimes crossing my head that the world can be divided cleanly into two kinds of people, namely (1) on the one side the abusers, the bullies; and (2) on the other side the people who are being abused/bullied or who have a history of being abused.  And that the only ones capable of compassion toward others are the ones with a history of being abused, because they are the only ones who understand what it is like.  My impression truly is that the people in group (1) seem not to grasp the idea of Love, and seem to truly operate on the basis of "big fish eat little fish" and to even truly take pride in their heartlessness.

And then since I have come to think that Love (the capacity for valuing people) is a wonderfully enriching thing for oneself as an individual, then I further think that this is a huge silver lining; and presupposed that we survive and heal, that maybe we in group (2) are fortunate to have found out what Love and compassion mean.  Or am I kidding myself and is this just a complicated mental knot I am making in which I effectively and unintentionally justify the bullies?

With best regards and be well.

[woodsgnome]

My response to your question, SonOfTheLoveless, definitely reflects my 'freeze' characteristic. Basically I'm sure the logic you lay out is solid, but personally I find it hard to fully take in as being relevant to my own situation. Where I once felt more at home with analyzing these sorts of things, lately I've noticed lots of dissociation about probing such details. Besides my normal 'freeze' stance, it just seems futile trying to probe into all the whys and wherefores of what happened.

All I really know anymore is what hurts. And work to heal it. I remember you saying you're more of a fighter/fawn sort, per Pete Walker's schematic. Maybe that's part of why I might appreciate the theory, but am not drawn to detailed explanations how stuff came about (although I find them interesting). I just prefer to work on what I might be able to do about it for myself.

Paraphrasing Walker, 'freeze' sorts just want to get out of the way -- beyond the flight response ... not fight or flight at all; more like just 'get me out of here'. As a deceased friend used to always tell me, "you (me) just can't stand conflict."

I know the story of the why, which includes lots of the old cptsd causes reflected in various symptoms. In my case these feature lots of what Walker labels as characteristic of the 'freeze' sort of personality.

I could expand, but would rather not, other than to say I'm quite fragile and shaky in making any response, as another trait of mine is the fear of being misunderstood.

I hope this finds you well. 

[SonOfTheLoveless]

Thank you for explaining, Woodsgnome.  Indeed I had not perceived that.  It is interesting to learn of the Freeze type.  Comparing myself with your description of the way you experience things, it seems indeed correct that I am not essentially a Freeze type.  So that is good to learn, namely it means that I can probably not really extrapolate from my own case to Freeze types.  But I do sympathize strongly, and very cordially wish you well.  Be strong and please keep faith in yourself.

[BeeKeeper]

I'm slowly allowing myself a chance to catch up on the time away-and was naturally intrigued by your subject about boundaries. All the mental anguish and fear of the COVID-19 intensity has brought those topics right to center stage. I can relate to your story, and your ability to bring your best self to the conversation, even if it felt disorienting and strange. I am totally inspired by your resolve and your courage in working through this experience. Thanks for feeling safe and trusting enough to tell your story.

Last fall I returned a piece of mail to my sister, unopened (it looked and felt like a greeting card.)  That one act did more to advance my boundaries than anything else I've said or done in the last 16 years.