Natureluvr's Recovery Journal

[natureluvr]

I have a situation here, and I'd love some specific feed back on what you think is going on here. 

I was a member of a church, lets call it RC.  My husband and I left this church a year ago, and went to a new church called PC.  I was and am a member of a quilting group in the RC church since over 2 years ago.   This group meets 2-3 times monthly in the church fellowship hall.   

Honestly, before the incident I'm about to describe happened, I was already pretty ambivalent about the group, and had stopped going over the summer, and didn't intend to go back, but then the leader L called me, and talked me into going back.  This was in early August. 

There is this one elderly woman called G who also goes. She has been a member of the church a very long time. Last summer, I opened a windows in the fellowship hall.  G came in and asked "who opened the window?".  I said I did, because it was cooler outside than inside, and it would save money on air conditioning.  She scowled at me.  Instead of just taking it, I said aloud "Uh oh, G is giving me a disapproving look".  And G denied it, and said "No, I didn't".  I didn't say anything else.  My purpose for saying this was to stand up to her.  Another time, I was trying to describe my difficulties with getting a real ID at the drivers liscense office, and she kept interjecting and being a know it all, trying to say how she did it, and had no difficulties.  Just petty stuff. 

Last week, there was a meeting, and the 2 leaders were telling the rest of us about some mistakes we had been making.  They were speaking in a respectful tone of voice.  These were not major mistakes, they were along the lines of making sure the quilt pieces were cut properly, that the material wasn't too thin, etc.  They spoke in respectful tones.  However, then G spoke up, and told us "When you select squares you must make sure they are really square'.  However, she spat the words out in a venomous, disrespectful, and contemptuous tone.  Being as how I'm a junior member of this quilting group, and no longer a member of the church that hosts the group, I did not feel it was my place to say anything to her, as she was speaking the group, and not to me personally.  However, I felt how she spoke was offensive and inappropriate.  I felt anxious and uncomfortable the rest of that day. 

A few days later, I sent a text to the group leader L saying the following: "L I think at least for a while I should just come to the group when G is not there.  I was very taken aback by the tone of her voice in which she spoke to the group.  Her tone of voice was hateful and contemptuous.  At what time does she usually leave?" 

L responded back to me "I'm so sorry you feel this way.  Her leaving time varies.  More times than not she leaves before lunch.  Maybe it would be helpful for you to talk to her and voice your concerns.  I don't want to lose anyone, but I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable either.  I will put this situation in my prayers.". 

Now I feel like there is an elephant in the room that no one wants to admit to or address. 

Personally, I feel like the leader L is abdicating her responsibility to deal with this problem.  I don't feel it is my place to speak to G about her disrespectul attitude to the rest of us.  When someone says to me "I'm sorry you feel that way", it feels kind of like gaslighting.  I feel like this leader is letting G off the hook, and letting her get away with bad behavior, because L the leader doesn't want to deal with it.  I also know that I'm triggered by G's tone of speaking, because often this was how my abusive mother spoke to me. 

I was already ambivalent about staying in this group anyway.  Today, I went to the group after G had left, so I didn't have any issues, but I just don't feel like the group really has much to offer me.  I really don't feel like fighting a battle with this woman G.  I think it is very likely she would just deny speaking in that nasty tone, the way she denied giving me a dirty look about the open window last year.  And after writing all this, I realize it is all just very petty.  I'm thinking I should just walk away from it all. 

[Papa Coco]

I agree with your use of the word gaslighting. It sure sounds like it to me.

In my own life, whenever I have a G behaving like a bully, that's exactly what I call him/her. A bully. They say whatever they want, and then accuse me of receiving it wrong when I stand up to them. That is classic gaslighting, which is a malicious act. And because it's a malicious act, I call it bullying.

This is a rule I live by: Bullies hate one thing over anything else. They hate being stood up to by their victims. When stood up to, they either downplay their bullying, accuse me of being the bully, or they just plain lie and deny, or, in some cases, they seek revenge on my having stood up to them.

Since the group is supporting her behaviors, I'd leave if it were me. And I wouldn't let L call me again and ask me to return. I'd just cite Irreconcilable Differences and say thank you for the invitation, but I'm on a new path now.

Good luck with everything. You're a kind person. Maybe because of your kindness, you rejoined the group when L asked you to. I have a ton of respect for you, and I hope you're able to work through your decision to stay or leave that group. Whichever you decide to do, I'll support you in my prayers and posts.

[Moondance]

I agree with Papa Coco and your gut instinct Natureluvr.

It's difficult to do though - I know and understand.  It hurts that more connections are being lost - we have lost so much snd sometimes its just too much loss.

So yes whatever you decide for yourself I stand with you - I so get either way you go.

 

[natureluvr]

PC said "Since the group is supporting her behaviors, I'd leave if it were me. And I wouldn't let L call me again and ask me to return."

I've decided to not go back.  I was already ambivalent about the group anyway, and now this is the proverbial straw.  I a friend of mine had a good insight - this woman G might give a lot of $$ to the church, and no one wants to deal with her honestly. 

Moondance said "It hurts that more connections are being lost".  Ah, thank you for this.  I've been wondering why I've had a hard time leaving it.  I think this is it.  However, these connections are very shallow at best, and will be dysfunctional if I were to go back and  they were all pretending the elephant is not there.  I suspect G might be a narcissist.

[Moondance]

Good for you Natureluvr 

Your friends point about the $$ to the church is a really good one - sad but it is very prevalent in church system - just my jaded opinion though.

 

[natureluvr]

"Your friends point about the $$ to the church is a really good one - sad but it is very prevalent in church system - just my jaded opinion though."

I agree, in my own personal experience, this sort of attitude is common in many churches I've been to, unfortunately. 

[natureluvr]

I've been pretty inactive on this site.  I had a hard time finding the login.  I couldn't find my journal in the private journal section. Maybe it was deleted? 

Anyway, I'm doing OK today.  Just wanted to check in, and say I am still here.  I miss you all.  I hope to back in soon, to read others' journals, and to write in my own journal.

I'm still NC with my malignant narc mom, and 2 of my 3 siblings.  I do have some limited contact with one of my siblings, and that is going pretty well. She is respecting my boundaries.  I'm still going through a grieving process with all the losses I have had.  It is cyclical - I got through a period of grief, for a day or several days, then I feel a profound sense of relief from releasing all the pain that has been inside me for decades.  I can't say enough about how healing it is to truly grieve, and release and let go of the emotional pain. 

[natureluvr]

My younger son is in his last year of college.  The field he has chosen will take him far away from where I live.  My older son also chose a profession that took him far away. 

I cried for about 1/2 hour this afternoon,  My tiny daughter (my infant inner child) is sad to think of both my grown sons living so far away.  It reminds her of when she was all alone as a baby and neglected.  The adult me realizes it is important and healthy for both my sons to live their own lives how they choose, and I support that.  But my inner child is feeling lonely and abandoned.  Part of it is the time of year.  The adult me is reassuring the child me that I am here for her now, and she is no longer all alone.  I know I will feel better tomorrow, for having worked through some of the grief from my abandonment.  My husband is here for me, as well. 

[Papa Coco]

Natureluvr,

A big heartfelt hug to you: