Understanding boundaries

[Wife#2]

I never was very good at reading other people's boundaries. I was that awkward person who would cross the boundary, completely oblivious, only to be deeply embarrassed when it was pointed out. Once it was, though, I had NO problem honoring it.

I used to feel like interactions with other people was like those movies about war with the hidden trip-lines. Only I was rarely with someone who could find them before I 'blew' myself up!

Could part of the reason I struggle with honoring other people's boundaries stem from the fact that I was not allowed many boundaries as a child? This is something that can be learned, right? Please say right!

[Three Roses]

Yes, I believe that too. As children we learn what to do by watching the adults in our life. If they don't honor boundaries and help us name our emotions, we won't learn the way society expects us to properly behave. It may be small comfort to know that this was probably their reality in childhood also; what they did not learn, they could not give us. For me, this takes some of the sting out of all the abuse I suffered.

Learning to have healthy boundaries is possible! The only people who are comfortable with no-boundary people are those who want to take advantage of that. When we have and express healthy boundaries, we attract others with the same.

I identify so strongly with your background - feelings of not belonging.  Keep reading, keep writing, keep sharing. We accept you for who you are. 

[Wife#2]

Three Roses - you are such a giving and kind person! Thank you for your responses! I know we can learn boundaries and I am getting better at seeing the boundaries of others. Not always, but better. There is hope....

And you are so right that uBPD Mom was ill-equipped by her alcoholic, probably uBPD mother and enabler father. I know that, and kept excusing her behavior because of that. No, it didn't make how she treated me right, but it does make it a little more understandable. My father, though not really PD that I can identify, was also raised by an alcoholic mother and an absent-for-work father. He did what he knew. Again, doesn't excuse completely, but does make it understandable.

Thank you for the hugs. They really helped. I'm having a really bad day today.  :: HUGS :: to you, also!

[Dutch Uncle]

I never was very good at reading other people's boundaries. I was that awkward person who would cross the boundary, completely oblivious, only to be deeply embarrassed when it was pointed out. Once it was, though, I had NO problem honoring it.

I think this is all there is to it? 
Everybody has specific boundaries. Apart from the very common set that is. But there are even people who are not the slightest offended by what most people would find a boundary violation.
So I think, and this has also been my experience, that now and then you discover in another person: "Oops, I just violated a boundary with him/her. Sorry about that."
This happens.
The "Once it was, though, I had NO problem honoring it." is key, IMHO. That's the whole point of letting somebody know (s)he has crossed a boundary.

Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.
Ian Fleming

is a quote that fits the bill as far as boundaries is concerned.
But I'm only in the process of learning this.

I know from my personal experience that one violation is OK. (I chalk it up to 'unwittingly'), The second time I think: "Wasn't I clear the first time? Or did (s)he forget?" The third time I get pissed, and will be on my guard from then on.

(NB: off course it depends a bit on what boundary is crossed. A burger is to getting away with "Oh, I didn't know"  )

[Wife#2]

Thank you for that, DU. I hope you're right.

By the way, I loved the burglar doesn't get to say, 'Oops I didn't know that was YOURS, thought it was in YOUR house and all.'

I'd also add that the nature of the violation matters. The gossip doesn't get to say, 'Oh, I didn't verify that with you because I just couldn't believe it!' after telling everyone what they heard.

Because I don't know the general public standards all that well, I tend towards too honest, too trusting (telling the gossip something I really didn't intend to get on the grapevine) and too much information. My best alternative is to HUSH MY MOUTH, which I am working on. 

[Contessa]

Could part of the reason I struggle with honoring other people's boundaries stem from the fact that I was not allowed many boundaries as a child? This is something that can be learned, right? Please say right!

I'm going to say right If you want to learn from that then of course you can. And by posting this question it is clear that you are already on the way.

For me personally, growing up I think I had a very poor understanding of boundaries because of the poor example I was shown at home. Feeling uncomfortable was the norm, so being comfortable about anything felt wrong somehow. It was a long time before I found out life was supposed to be the other way around. Once that was identified, interactions became a case of putting myself in the other's shoes by thinking in a pre-emptive manner: "when someone did *insert action*, I would be uncomfortable. I would be comfortable if *different action* happened", and used those actions instead. With time and practice, trial and error, the new behaviour became the norm. At the same time, I had established more acceptable boundaries for myself too.

I don't know if that is any assistance but i'd be keen to know it all progresses Wife#2

[Wife#2]

Thanks.

Strange thing today. For part of each day, I work on a special project along with about half the people in the company.

The lady sitting next to me is one of those who will befriend you only to use what you say in conversation against you later. I messed up with her, crossed a boundary in a stupid way. She busted my chops about it, I apologized and assured her it would never happen again. And it hasn't. Yet, she's ticked about other things at our office - and a gossip.

I knew sitting next to her that I should watch what I say, but in the course of conversation, and being glad that she FINALLY stopped glaring at me, that I probably spoke too much about myself and my family. BUT, I was aware that I should share any opinions of any coworkers with her. She did go back to another coworker to chat before returning to her post. The other person is also a known gossip. It makes me wonder WHY the glaring one chose to sit next to me and what they hope to learn.

The rewardingly funny part is that, right when she was beginning a topic that probably shouldn't be discussed at work at all, let alone with me in particular, she began making really bad mistakes with her work, which were pointed out by the leader of that work area.

[Contessa]

I'm sorry Wife#2. I think I understood boundaries from a different perspective.

Workplace gossip is the worst. Very difficult to deal with. Glad you got a bit of pleasure the other day in any case

[Wife#2]

Yes, I did mean that I have problems understanding where the general public boundaries are. What is 'shareable' and what should be private. And who qualifies as a close enough friend for the 'private' information.

It's part of why I hated participating in teasing. First, I'd been the recipient of mean teasing by my brother. Second, I didn't know what was funny and what was just plain mean. But, when a group of people gathers and there is light-hearted teasing going on, I WANT to participate! It looks fun when it's kept kind. I don't even mind if someone light-heartedly teases me. But, I'm nearly 50 years old and I don't know how to participate. If I try, I have to stop and review in my mind before I say it out loud - I have crossed lines and regretted it. By the time I review what I thought, the moment has passed and my witty comment is useless.

My boundaries are enforceable because I set them. I understand why I did and I'm getting ok to very good in defending them. I just dislike very much not understanding others' boundaries until AFTER I've crossed them.

I just know that it's got to be tiresome being my friend. And when I have trouble gaging who is my friend and who is just someone who talks to me sometimes, it makes me feel socially stupid and awkward, which drives me into myself. Then, I think I'm doing the right thing, because very few people notice that I've withdrawn and fewer say anything about it.

God help me, I'm frustrated and tired. This cPTSD thing, especially undiagnosed and with no therapist at the moment, really just stinks in a most foul way.

All of you here who answer and help - you are angels and life-savers! Thank you and thanks also for this site!

[Contessa]

Ah yes. Now I understand. It isn't an easy thing to gauge at all, especially when different social groups have different boundaries. Its a constant adjustment. The silver lining here is you seem to know when you have crossed it and so can figure out where the boundary is for future reference.