Demoralized...

[meursault]

This stuff is so damned complex, I can hardly articulate all the different aspects of what I'm working through.  So I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed by it, too.

It's like I FINALLY found someone who cared enough (last therapist, and maybe the current one) and believes me how bad growing up was for me, and thinks I'm worth something, and doesn't think I deserved it, or laughs at me, or invalidates me, or dismisses me with simple fixes or platitudes.

Someone gets how much my Mom, sisters, and Dad hurt me growing up.  And now I feel sort of nihilistic or something.  "Now what?"  I've wasted my whole life trying to maintain the belief I didn't deserve that and was actually treated badly, expecting everyone to invalidate that.  My entire way of thinking is defence against that attitude.  I guess maybe it's a need to grieve for everything I could have been, everything I lost, and everything I never had.  It's not huge, but it's constant... this sense of the waste and futility and lost time.  What does anything even mean?  My fundamental assumption that I'm unlovable may be wrong, and I feel like King Lear coming back to his senses to discover how his kingdom fell to pieces during his phase of madness.

I've been having the Tennyson line: "...though much is lost, much abides..." go through my head quite a bit.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do next.  I still get triggered, I'm still fundamentally terrified, especially of women.  All the emotional responses are in place, but now I can accept that maybe, at my foundation, I have worth and am lovable.  Maybe it was just all the abusiveness and hatred of my Mom that makes me think I'm worthless and expect the same from everyone.

Basically, I think I lost a core belief, and feel kind of tetherless.  What will that all mean?  My Mom hated me not because I deserved it, but because she had her own issues.  My Dad took it out on me because he wasn't strong enough.  My sisters were abusive to me because they also believed my Mom that I was worthless. 

Mostly, Women since have not  wanted me.  Lots of one-night stands, but rarely any intimacy.  Could it also be because of what I was taught I was worth, and not them seeing through me with some magical, feminine insight to see I am just garbage and disgusting?

The emotions haven't been processed yet, but the world view I adopted to survive growing up looks like a lie to me now.  I'm feeling like a f* up, but also kind of scared about not knowing what to do next.  And then there's all the stuff about my Dad's death which I can't even look at yet.

I think it all started by learning my therapist loved the boy still in me, and I did too.  She showed me how I was allowed to feel about myself.  This stuff seems like I'm trying to herd a bunch of greased cats, though!  It's all so emotionally charged and fundamental in my psyche.  Ugh.

Anyhow, mostly just venting, I guess.  Feeling demoralized.

Meursault

[Three Roses]

Could it also be because of what I was taught I was worth, and not them seeing through me with some magical, feminine insight to see I am just garbage and disgusting?

There is no magical feminine insight that sees through people. Although some women would like you to believe that myth.

You are not garbage! You are lovable! But, you haven't believed you were, and so you cast that shadow onto every potential relationship, perhaps reading things into others' behavior that was only what you expected.

When you push against a barrier for so long, you may stumble when that barrier finally falls.

I'm so sorry you were treated so badly as a boy and young man, and never taught or shown how much you have to offer, and how beautiful you are.

[sanmagic7]

wow.  your therapist showed you that the boy inside you is lovable, and you now believe that.  you know, that's a pretty big shift.  i'm not surprised you're overwhelmed.  may i suggest that you take it slow for now, allow this to be processed within you, understand what that might mean for you and your life, and just keep putting one foot in front of the other.  the rest of it will fall into place when you're ready for it, is what i believe.  in the meantime, it's ok to be 'messy', not know exactly what to do or how to feel.  i've had this experience many times over the years, and i've found that it eventually will sort itself out. 

and, i agree with 3 roses, we women don't have some magical insight.  we deal with what is presented to us.  but, a person will present what and how s/he believes about self and others.  so, it seems to me that as your worldview changes and your perception of your self changes, you will present something different to others in the world.  i see someone who is struggling, perhaps for the moment, but who is overcoming adversity with determination, intelligence, perseverance, and a willingness to be vulnerable - all traits that will eventually attract others of like substance.  hang tough!  we're hanging right beside you.

[meursault]

Thanks for the comments!  Both of you!  I feel kind of stupid with the irrational belief about women's magical insight.  I even know where it came from.  Women were ALWAYS good, right, pure, worthwhile, internally powerful, lovable, men ALWAYS monsters, scum, subhuman, weak-minded, stupid, disgusting, deserving of death.  It was a constant litany from my Mom growing up.

I grew up with that, so my little kid mind searched inside me and didn't find ANY of that to be true for me, but I was still being abused by my Mom and sisters, so that must mean I was missing something because (as they said) women are always right, and they wouldn't POSSIBLY be abusive unless I deserved it.  It was logically impossible from my little kid thinking.  I desperately tried to introspect myself to find out what they saw as so bad about me that I deserved it all.  I guess I have to find the language I can use to help the little boy part in me understand it, because he essentially went to: "I don't understand, so they must be magical.... Only a woman is allowed to define whether I am being treated abusively or deserve to be, I'm not allowed to know that."  I've wasted so many years believing that!

Sorry for the blathering on...  The thousand heads rising up with this are pretty daunting to me.  I hope people don't mind me posting this stuff. 

I suppose I'll just have to sit with this until the little boy can feel safe enough to trust some more and process more of this.

Meursault

[Dutch Uncle]

Women were ALWAYS good, right, pure, worthwhile, internally powerful, lovable, men ALWAYS monsters, scum, subhuman, weak-minded, stupid, disgusting, deserving of death.  It was a constant litany from my Mom growing up.

I grew up with that, so my little kid mind searched inside me and didn't find ANY of that to be true for me, but I was still being abused by my Mom and sisters, so that must mean I was missing something because (as they said) women are always right, and they wouldn't POSSIBLY be abusive unless I deserved it.

I do so relate to this. 
My DramaMama and DramaSis (whom I presume to be both Histrionic Personality Disordered, and/or NPD/BPD) have instilled this idea in me too, and not only as a kid (which would have been bad enough) but have continued to install this throughout my whole adult life. And every time I was on my way of breaking free from this (for example my dating women who did demand men would treat them as equals, yes, but considered themselves equal to men as well, and not superior and/or the permanent victim of all men and/or masculinity and/or patriarchy) I would receive put-downs.

It's hard to free one-self from these lies, and I have been a bachelor for long now. I do have girlfriends, but without sexual intimacy. But with some I have emotional intimacy, which is wonderful.
I carefully shield them from my FOO though. They will be held against me. (much like DramaSis' wife is being held against her by DramaMama, but that's another story for another place and time.)

So I hear you, meursault, and if you want, we may have a  -session now and then, together. And with the other folks here, whatever gender, who do not fall for this sexist nonsense either.
In any case, know that you are not alone. I'm where you are. 


Dutch.

[sanmagic7]

no problems with the rants, raves, or blathering.  it's all good.  it's especially good to be able to get the crap of that stuff out of you - i think it takes some of the power of it away when you can see it in black and white.

i'm a member of a feminist book club (online), and while we have lots of topics of discussion about equality, we also discuss the actuality of equality.  meaning, neither men nor women are better, more, or less than the other.  i also went to a feminist college way back when, and there, too, the discussions were about equality.  the fact that women are making their sons and brothers feel 'less than' is quite disturbing to me.  they may have had their own issues re: men, but that's no reason to put someone they supposedly love into a neg. category. 

i truly feel bad for you men who have had to go through this.  it's just wrong, they were and are wrong to do that to you.  as a child, of course you are attempting to process that information with only the capabilities of a child's mind, and you get stuck there with those beliefs.  you end up fighting for your very being, your essence of being a man.  it's just plain cruelty, in my mind, to lay such neg. on a child, who has no logic or resources with which to fight back or defend himself. 

i'm just glad you both have found your way here, and have been able to begin exploring the reality of those messages that were forced on you before you even knew yourself.  kudos to you both!  this is how i see it.

[meursault]

It's good to be able to come to a place where I don't feel so alone with all this.  I have my therapist, I suppose, but that's different.  My two best friends are women, and they seem to get it pretty well, but not quite.  They're both very supportive of me.  One of them was a national volleyball champ, and coaches some university women's volleyball team now.  She jokes around about inviting me out with her team, but can't because I'd be so easy to walk over.  I say "I'm willing to accept that!", and she responds: "That's exactly the problem!" 

I guess I have intimacy, albeit non-romantic, with a few women, but it's not the same.  And sex seems to just happen, completely out of my control.  I'll go a few months, and then some woman will chat me up and pretty aggressively pressure me into sex.  No intimacy there.  It's sometimes okay, sometimes awesome, but most of the time I wish it didn't happen, or even while it is happening.  I can't think of the last time a woman treated me decently during sex, maybe six or seven years ago.  Basically I become so desperate to feel like someone wants or loves me, I let myself be treated like crap, hoping since they like having sex with me, maybe there will be more about me they'll want.

My Mom is a VERY politically minded second wave radical feminist.  Stuff like my Dad calling her "my wife" was not allowed because "I'm not a f*ing possession!"  "Person-hole cover", that sort of thing.  It still bugs me, when the first test tube baby was born in, I think, 1984.  My mom was at the table and made us all shut up as she read the newspaper article, then raised her arms in a cheer and cheered: "We can finally get rid of all you male barstewards!"  I have so many memories like that.  The newspaper thing was constant.  Any news about a rape was the same thing.  We'd be made to shut up as she read it, and then she'd fly into a hate filled commentary about what men deserved.  No wonder my sisters hated me!

Strangely, although I think there are a lot of idiotic feminists out there, and think the entire concept of privilege is off the mark, I consider myself a feminist and think the movement has been almost entirely positive.  I think my Mom just used it as a weapon, and camouflage, to attack me and others.  I think she saw it, in her APD way, as a good tool to attack people with.  She assured herself she always had the moral high ground.  On the upside, I can see a lot of the misogyny around me, I suppose, even in my own putting women on a pedestal, which is at the very least unfair.

When I'm out with female friends that have new baby boys and feel proud, I feel confused as *, though.  And sort of sad and ashamed of myself because I never had a Mom that felt that way about me, and how broken I must have been, even as a baby.  And then how that was reinforced by my sisters adopting the same view, and my Dad too scared of my Mom so he never supported me either.  Or whenever I see some Mom out with her boy and actually treating him like a human being.  Throws me right off.  It seems surreal.

I'm feeling all cry-ee now.  My eyeballs are leaking!

Writing this out, I can see the absurdity of it, I just can't seem to apply it!  I guess I'm just going to have to keep supporting the little boy in me, and hope this stuff starts to come together better at some point.  And now I'm sad and ashamed for a different reason: I spent forty years believing them all, when I should have been helping the little boy.

Again, sorry for the length,
Meursault

[sanmagic7]

you didn't have much of a choice, did you, but to believe what you were told.  a complete imbalance of power that took advantage of your child's mind's capabilities and vulnerabilities.  there is no shame in being a child believing what we were bullied into believing.  the shame is with the bullies for doing what they did. 

you may have spent 40 years mired in one belief system, but you're finding your way out now.  and, congratulations to you for that.  not everyone has the strength or willingness to do so.  not everyone makes it out alive due to a variety of reasons.  i'm really glad you found your way here.

i used to do a lot of sex just to get touched.  i'm very tactile, and feel that i was touch-deprived as a child.  so, if it meant giving my body away just to feel that skin contact, i went for it.  as i've continued on this journey, that feeling is becoming less and less.  i give out plenty of hugs, even to myself at times! 

keep being with your little boy, teach him what he really needed to know.  he's grateful, of that i'm sure, and doesn't hold you responsible for not knowing what he needed in the past.  just my thoughts.

[Sandstone]

How sad for you to be shamed and to have to grow up with such terrible views of being a male and having no support from your sisters or dad. Im not surprised you seek love/affection/approval from women. You were never broken, your family were.
Dont feel bad for not helping the little boy back then, you didnt know any better. You know now and you can parent him the way you should have been parented. You are worth it.