Question about Psychotherapy.

[Gromit]

Hi Esmeralda,

I wish I had seen this thread before. I have some experience of psychodynamic therapy, I tried training to be a counsellor in that model and had to have therapy with a therapist in that model. They do concentrate on how it feels to be in the room with the client. In my experience the therapist was placing greater importance on how she felt than on what I actually said.

As I understood it they are trained in Freud's ideas, many of which have been superseded. It was not a good fit for me, & I actually complained to the BACP about her and also about the organisation I trained with. The training ended before completion for me too.

Have you changed T or are you back on a waiting list?

I have not had any luck with the NHS so far, I fund my own counselling, which can be hit or miss. However, you do seem to be more assertive than me which is a good thing.
G

[Esmeralda]

Thank you for your replies Sanmagic and Gromit.

Yes, the t seemed to pay too little attention to what I was saying and didn't seem to try and put herself in my shoes at all. In my view she used her own life experiences to assess my life situation and my feelings. Her reactions seemed to have little to do with what I was saying. I ended up twisting myself in a pretzel to try to explain to her how I was feeling and what my problems were and it was distressing. Talking about my most painful stuff would be difficult enough with someone who would understand but trying to explain it to someone who didn't seem to understand was soul-destroying.. It actually reminded in some ways of the times when I experienced emotional abuse.

There were so many other things that were very concerning, which I mostly descrtibed in this thread. It began with her asking me what I wanted to do in this therapy and when I told her what I wanted to do she said we would do something else first (put my past behind and look towards the future), then when I said that I didn't see how we could do that, she told me that I was blocking all her ideas!! Ok, there were some more details in the story but this is a rough summing up. She never followed up on what I had said I wanted to do in therapy.

And during the fourth session she said she didn't see the emotions I was talking about (sadness, anguish, fear, anxiety) while I was crying and trembling!! I mean - seriously??? How could I ever want to come back to this person, what would be the point after hearing this? This is just unbelievable.

Gromit, thank you for shedding some light on psychodynamic psychotherapy, but are you saying that this is how it should normally look? I am really confused about that and I asked the t this question many times but never received a straight and informative answer.

[Esmeralda]

What happened in the end was that I emailed the service and asked to speak to a supervisor. A week or two later I received a phone call from a lady who said she was a supervisor and she wanted to know quite in detail what I was unhappy about during the sessions. I told her and she did try to defend the therapy style and explain away some (or most) of my concerns.

She said, for example, that silences were allowed and I said but there were too many silences. She said that the relationship between a client and a therapist plays a big role as an indication of client's relationships and interactions with other people. However, (and I don't think I explained this to the supervisor, I'm just explaining it here) when I was talking to the t the last time I saw her, the issue I had was not that she kept bringing up the client - therapist relationship, but that I kept telling her what bothered me about her "style" and asking her questions and she kept ignoring all of that and instead turning it all on me and asking what bad experiences did the therapy with her remind me of and in this way taking the focus away entirely from herself and what I tried to bring to attention. I would say something like "you never followed up on my suggestions about what I wanted to do in this therapy after you asked me for suggestions" and she would be like "Hmm, I'm just wondering what our relationship reminds you of from your past".

I also told the supervisor about the "I don't see your feelings" incident. The supervisor tried to justify that too. She said that a t observes a client's reactions and might see things that a client is not aware of. She gave me example that her client was talking about an argument with someone and was saying she was angry but she (the supervisor, who is also a t) saw that the client was sad and the client agreed. I said but it has to ring true and it didn't in my case. And I repeated that at the time my t said she wasn't seeing my emotions, I was crying and shaking, struggling to keep my composure. She said "oh I see".

I explained that I didn't feel understood and validated etc. I told her that I'd felt physically ill after the sessions.

The supervisor heard me out, more or less, and then told me her suggestion. She said that in cases like that "they" advise that a client should go back to the same t and try again, once it is known what the problems are. She talked about it for a while, basically repeating it in different ways, and I finally kind of interrupted her and said that I'm not going back to this lady. I said it was too stressful for me, I tried but it was too much effort, too much organising and I didn't get anything out of it, I only ended up distressed. I think my voice trembled a bit at some point when I was saying that. I really felt upset at the thought of going back to this t.

The supervisor didn't sound impressed and she said she would have to speak to her colleagues and call me a week after and let me know what was going to happen. About a week later she did call and said they would put me back on the waiting list and I would see another t. She asked a few questions about what time and place would be convenient for me.

I've heard nothing since. I don't know whether they placed me at the end or the beginning of the waiting list. I should probably chase it up and find out.

Yeah, it looks like mental health services are really poor on the NHS. I wish I could afford private t.

I have recently referred myself back to a place where I had CBT for a while. I found it helpful to some degree at the time and I hope that it is a bit more accessible than the one I'm waiting for. Haven't heard back yet, though.

I notice that a couple of posters mentioned my ability to stand up for myself. It is definitely not something that always came easy to me - quite the opposite. It took a lot of effort, time and hard work for me to learn it and I'm still not perfect. Sometimes I can't do it, other times I overdo it (get very defensive and argumentative), but it's work in progress. It is nice to 'hear' that some of you noticed it. I can pat myself on the back.

Thank you.

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Esmeralda good for you, you have stated your concerns and got answers and that is really proactive, as you know I'm with the nhs too, I had to wait about a month before I was seen, but I'm really hoping you get a therapist you can relate to and feel different about, I'm pleased that they are able to provide you with a different one, I'm sure you're neither the first or last person to do this, I imagine it must be quite a normal thing to do as the therapeutic relationship has to be right for therapy to work. Good luck hope it goes well for you, keep us updated.

[Esmeralda]

Thank you for your support Eyessoblue. You wrote you had to wait a month before you were seen.. I'm not sure what that means. You waited a month to be seen by a therapist from the time you were referred? I know you are seeing a specialist trauma counselor, which is amazing. I have no idea how you got such great opportunity because where I am (a big city) I have been trying for years to access proper therapy and there was always something in the way, or not right for me (apparently), or not available for this or other reason, so all I ever got was a few months of CBT - which did help me to some degree.

To see the psychotherapist I had to wait for more than 10 months from when I was referred. Now that this hasn't worked out and I'm back on the waiting list, I have waited almost 14 months!! This is really discouraging.

So I referred myself to CBT and today I had a telephone assessment.. I knew I shouldn't have told them that I'm on the waiting list for psychotherapy, but I said it in the end. The outcome is that they won't offer me CBT because then  I'd have to be taken off the waiting list for psychotherapy and they feel psychotherapy will be better for my needs.

How frustrating and discouraging!! I need help, I want help, I do all I can do get help, but I'm getting nowhere. It takes a lot of effort, as many people on here will understand, to even fill in an online form to refer myself and a lot of effort to make time and prepare mentally for a telephone assessment and for it to achieve nothing YET AGAIN just makes me want to give up.

Again, I'm feeling dreadful today after having to talk about all of the stuff that is so painful for me and having nothing good coming from it. I think it gives me emotional flashbacks that last for a couple of days and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to make it stop.

Well, she said she would send me information about other services, including low-cost counseling, so we'll see but from experience I expect that it won't be as good as it all sounds. I'm getting impatient with this banging my head against a wall and not being able to get any help or treatment.

In any case, I am told, all therapies on the nhs are very limited in time (several weeks for CBT and 16 sessions for psychotherapy, which is described as long-term) while from what I've read about cptsd, the treatment should last for a couple of years.

It is also very interesting for me to read that you had EMDR Eyessoblue - was it also on the nhs and was it at the same time as counseling? I have an appointment with my gp tomorrow and I intended to ask if I can be referred for EMDR but now I'm feeling pessimistic and expect that they will tell me that I can't be referred to anything else while I'm on the waiting list for one thing. If it is even available in my area at all.

[sanmagic7]

i hear your frustration, esmeralda.  been there, done that too many times, and it never gets any easier.  hang tough, sweetie.  just hang tough.  it's all i know to say.  i don't know how the nhs works, but from what i've read it's really difficult to navigate, to get your needs met, and to get ultimate satisfaction.  i wish the best for you on all three counts.   big hug to you.

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Esmeralda, yes I only had to wait 4 weeks to see my trauma psychologist which I believe is really good for the nhs, yes I have emdr one week and psychotherapy the week after and it is working really well on the nhs. I'm only entitled to 12 sessions at a time, I did actually have 16 sessions to begin with she managed to extend it but after 16 she 'had' to discharge me even though I wasn't ready to be, she then told me that I could re apply for more therapy and basically told me what I needed to say, I had to leave it a month though before I did this. Luckily just waited 4 weeks and am back seeing the same lady again, it's very hard though because at about 8 weeks in I am settled and feel relaxed in talking etc then a few weeks later due to nhs guidelines I have to leave to go back again which sets me right back again! The EMDR is really affective for trauma and it is hard and takes a few days to work, but afterwards I have little memory of things that happen and feel more relaxed, my problem is I have so much due to a life time of abuse that I feel like I'm never getting to the end and then that's when my anxiety gets really bad! I am extremely greatful tho that I am getting the help on the nhs and it's been so quick, I live in a small village so I guess that's why I've been so lucky. I really hope it works out for you, keep me posted on how you get on.