Conscious vs. unconscious SI? *TW*

[ah]

I've stopped SI about two decades ago. It was driving my self hatred power-crazy so I decided to quit cold turkey and ignored all urges to repeat it, till the urges all subsided over the years. It was rough but totally successful.

But there's another level of SI I can't do much about, it's uncontrollable, passive, unconscious: I bite my gums, not hard enough to do any real harm or even register as "SI" in my mind because it doesn't really hurt. It's maybe more a control thing, like a pet gently biting you just to make a point, not to hurt you. Maybe.

A dentist noticed it a few years ago and advised me to "lower my stress levels", naive advice that left me newly guilty. As though you can just say to yourself "Stress begone!" and ride toward the sunset, no circumstances beyond one's control (according to a self-satisfied doctor with a family and security, yeah, I guess there aren't any. For them "stress" is possibly a matter of choice, yoga and bubble baths). But I was docile, I was a good patient so I tried hard. I dutifully fought my body and felt mad at myself whenever I noticed I "failed", but finally gave up. It seemed counter-productive, just fed self hatred.

Eventually I decided to leave my body alone - it seems to know what it's doing. It is what it is. I don't like it, but it's a mechanism that's out of my control, like sneezing. And maybe the body knows best. After all, it's got 5 billion years of evolution under its belt and I've just got one dentist and guilt to guide me. Maybe.

I guess there's also something to be said for a tortured body being tortured. I know I'm tortured; knowing it can't stop it, reality isn't all in one's head, it's objectively out there, sadly for the tortured.

It's too easy to engage in endless victim blaming and to tell myself it's weakness, but I overcame all overt, conscious, active SI for good with no help and withstood every desire to relapse. I changed my conscious habits in the long term, so I'm not sure "weakness" fits well either.

I guess my habits could have been transformed into a gentler form of SI, but there my doubt is whether SI, by definition, is something that you do. If it isn't something that one does, if it's something that is happening to you, is it SI? Not much "self" in the SI left, just "injury", maybe.

Just wondering if anyone else has these levels of SI too.

[DecimalRocket]

Well, I notice when my inner critic is especially harsh on myself, there's a part of me that works to tense my muscles on purpose to an extreme.  When I finally relax, my muscles start aching and I need to lie down. So I can choose either emotional pain or physical pain. Great.

Stress tends to trigger my SPD, which can range from pretty random physical symptoms from lack of balance to oversensitivity to taste. People recommend exercise for stress, but the disability makes it err. . . more stressful. The physical therapy for it is more of a form of work than something relaxing, but I'm not that oversensitive to lights and sounds now at least, my fine motor skills has more stamina and well, I can walk in a straight line more often.

Sometimes it feels like my inner critic has a sort of pleasure with making me feel this way physically, and it feels like a part of me has an addiction to making me feel terrible. But I made the same choice as you. All I can do is accept it and go along with it like I've been taught in body meditations. No resisting. Just allowing. Even though I'm embarrassed about my self-hatred and disability sometimes.

It's not an all-cure thing, but it's a step forward.

Oh well.

[Deep Blue]

Ah,
I find myself wondering something similar to what you described. 

**** trigger warning self harm***




My mode of self harm is cutting.  It got harder and harder to hide it through the years. I tended to use my watch To hide the marks.  I am more in control of the battle but I still slip occasionally.  Now if I slip, I try to self harm in a less dangerous spot... hope that made sense.

Anyway, I was talking to my therapist about something I was doing, and asked if it was self harm.  I was going to sleep with a heating pad or leaving them on even when I felt my skin burning underneath them.   Her answer was that yes, it is still self harm.  I didn't set out to use them as an additional form of self harm... and yet here I am.

[California Dreaming]

You pose an interesting question ah. My SI started around 16. I am 50 now. I have dealt with SI throughout my life and have pondered its role in my life. For me, SI was an important coping mechanism. Apparently, I no longer need it because it hasn't occurred in about 2 years now. It could reappear of course. SI gave me a sense of having a choice, some sense of control if you will. My SI was always strongest when I felt trapped by my life, which used to be quite often. SI definitely appeared in my consciousness without my control. Once it appeared, I could choose to cultivate it or let it pass. So, it both happened to me, and it was something that I could do if I chose to.

[Blueberry]

ah, I don't know. I'm impressed that you managed to go cold turkey on self-harm 2 decades ago. Wow! These past few days, week maybe I have less self-harm impulse and so do less of it. I can't really imagine a time when I could just stop altogether for ever. But you did. 

I used to grind my teeth day and night, as a teenager when I was still living with FOO. It's not totally unusual - dentists know all about it. Maybe biting your gums is a bit like that? The fact that it's not unusual doesn't make it healthy or anything of course.

I just want to add for you and California Dreaming that on this forum SI actually stands for suicide ideation (not self-injury) and SH for self-harm. (I started out referring to my self-harm method as SI on here too).

[California Dreaming]

Thank you for the clarification Blueberry. My post is referring to suicidal ideation.

[ah]

Thanks Blueberry, I meant SH 
But SH and SI are so closely linked that everything I wrote above applies to SI too.

Now that I think back, I didn't start biting my gums till I tried very hard to stop gnawing my teeth so it makes perfect sense the two are very similar.
Blueberry, imagining you doing it day and night as a teenager leaves my heart aching. You must have been in so much pain.

Maybe SH that isn't conscious is actually sadder than conscious SH because it's so habitual that you no longer need to think about it.
But yeah, I bet this type is very common though if I had to see a dentist I'd be very ashamed at what it must look like. I don't think there's one millimeter in my mouth that's not bruised and scarred... oh well... 
(This is why I fought so hard to stop the stronger types of SH, because of the shame that I felt about them. It was so painful that the relief from doing them stopped being worth it anymore. If that makes sense?)
It felt like my urges to SH, strong as they were, were lying to me. They were trying to make a promise they couldn't keep.

California Dreaming,
I love what you said about choosing to cultivate SI or let it pass, what a powerful statement. I wish I had that much mental power! Wow!

Deep Blue,
I wonder... you got me thinking about the heating pad. Do you feel self neglect is SH? Like for example not eating well or not taking care of one's health?
I guess there are much more layers to SH than I thought.

Rocket,
Thanks so much, I feel less guilty about just letting my body be now.

Shameful topic, this, I guess. And I'm not good with shame - or should I say I'm exceptionally skilled and experienced at feeling shame

[Blueberry]

ah and Deep Blue, when I read about the heating pad I remembered somebody in inpatient T who would 'not notice' how hot the shower water was at particular times and of course not notice that it was far too hot. I remember that she would get her bed neighbour to test it for her in those times. Self-care.

I also think there might be a bit of a slippery slope from self-neglect to actual self-harm. Like I used to allow myself to get so cold including in my own apartment that I got chilblains on my fingers and toes. Chilblains are actually a very minor form of frost-bite. Imagine getting that in your own apartment  They itch like *.

ah, thanks for the clarification on your use of SH and SI, and thanks especially for your compassion towards my teenaged self. I was an older teenager by then, 18-19, and yeah it was a very difficult, painful year in many ways.

My heart aches for you too, now, with a mouth bruised and scarred.   

[California Dreaming]

Thank you for the feedback ah. One day you will have the mental power to let it pass!

[Deep Blue]

Ah,
Yes I think self neglect is another form of SH.  Self care is a hard thing when we have urges to harm ourselves.  My self neglect is usually around food or pushing myself or not sleeping.  SH comes in so many forms but it is usually for the same reason.  My T told me she used to have a patient that would purposely make dogs angry so they would bite him.  That was his form of SH.

Blueberry,
Did the person really not know the water was too hot? Had they dissociated?  I often feel it burn my skin and ignore it.  It's been a couple weeks since I have done it.  Now that I recognize it as SH I am trying to stop. 

to you all

[Knowunknown]

With regard to conscious v. unconscious, it is ultimately obvious.  That of which I am presently aware is conscious, otherwise, not so.  Consciousness itself means present-awareness, so whilst dissociated to whatever degree, one has become unconscious.  If one becomes aware that one has dissociated, one has become conscious- the witness to the desire and or acting out of SH.  Suicidal ideation, with which I too struggle, are thoughts.  All thoughts CAN potentially be seen as "passing clouds" and let go.  The feelings, however, seem much more difficult to deal with.  I feel ya.
Two anecdotes:

1) Shortly after I began meditation (timelines are not my specialty, so for how long must remain a mystery),  stopped biting my nails.  More accurately, the mouth on my face stopped biting the nails on my hands.  I was utterly surprised, with no intention to discontinue this behavior.  One day, I just thought, "strange, I need to cut my nails?"  This led, originally to great hope that, as was stated in this thread, "the body knows what its doing".  Eventually, it seems, to a "magical thinking"-of-sort, as I assumed that any other compensating (neurotic) behavior would also fall away by spending time on a cushion and experiencing the in and out breaths for the 10,000 times.......not so far

2)  I also used to grind my teeth at night.  One day I noticed that I was now aware of it during the day, but it stopped at night.  I thought, "great, it is here for me to work with in the light of day".  To this day, I still have tension in the jaw that won't abate, and which periodically returns during sleep.   

Thanks for the feed, and I truly feel empathy for those of us for whom the body is quite clearly keeping the score. 
I am new to this site and have yet to put my profile in place, but I understand, unfortunately, the shame that I hear resonating here.  I remember reading OSHO, "Using the Mind to Heal the Body", where he states that all animals use their claws and teeth when angered.  We poor humans; what other animal uses its teeth on its own claws.  C-PTSD sucks!

With sincerity and compassion.