Self-referencing

[schrödinger's cat]

I came across that word in several texts on CPTSD recovery. Apparently, we have to become self-referencing in order to heal. I didn't pay much attention to that at the time. It seemed like just another abstract concept.

It's starting to dawn upon me now, though. And I'm pretty excited by it. Because once I know what the problem is - and that it's not any character failing of mine, nor simply the way this world works for everyone - then it follows logically that it can be changed. It can be slowly nudged towards a more bearable state of affairs, or given a good kick, whatever, but it can and will be shifted. This feels like I've lived all my life in a house that had a piano stuck in the hallway, and everyone had to crawl around it, and everyone thought it couldn't be moved, but now, huzzah, a solution is within reach.

Which might just be the usual enthusiasm one gets before falling flat on one's face. Who knows. But the concept is interesting. So I thought maybe we could talk about it? Just in general, sharing our stories. Because I still think that the word is too abstract to be easily understood. So sharing our experiences might clarify the matter. I'm still groping about in the dark too.

So! Here's what I found out. Since I'm nervous about writing this, it'll be brief, because I want to rush through this before I lose my nerve.

Possible causes: narcissistic family systems => the entire family is focussed on the needs of the parents => the child grows up having the parents' needs as her focal point. Her own needs are sidelined, maybe even seen as mere obstacles for parental needs. Abuse undermines your sense of self, your sense of self-worth. It undermines your ability to trust in your own voice - after all, you constantly experience yourself as weaker than others. Some kinds of abuse purposely try to make you other-referencing:
-- name-calling and labelling (the abuser sends us the underlying message: "what I think about you is true")
-- trivializing and minimizing ("how I assess your situation is correct")
-- giving "advice", asking probing questions, analyzing, offering solutions ("there's no need for me to listen to your side of the story", "I know best", "I solve your problem")
-- invalidating, gaslighting ("I know what happened, I decide what's real")
-- withholding, withdrawing, stonewalling => a form of exerting passive-aggressive control: an attempt to switch us off
-- countering: ("my point of view is the only acceptable one, so align yourself with me")
-- minimizing: ("I know how your experiences have truly affected you")
-- trivializing: directly devalues and belittles our contributions, our perceptions, our experiences, and our normal human dignity

Effects:
-- you constantly second-guess yourself - "was it really so", "maybe I'm just being oversensitive", etc
-- difficulty making decisions
-- it's VERY hard to accept criticism, because we've been taught to connect our sense of self-worth directly to other people's reactions to us - so if a neighbour or the kid next door looks at us funny, we're sunk
-- for that reason, we become people-pleasers
-- we think in terms of "should" and "ought to"

Phew! I'm done. Was this okay? This is what I remember from the books I'm reading. So it's not a complete list, and it's not official, it's just "things Cat had buzzing about at the back of her head".

No clear idea yet how to fix things. So far, I'm trying to become aware of what caused this. That helps me realize that these are just introjects - things someone else wanted me to believe. And that makes it easier to show them the proverbial middle finger. I'm trying to see when and in what ways I'm other-referencing, and to see how I could do things differently. Even just finding out what I'm feeling is a bit of a task.

It's easier to do silly little things. Like a self-referencing to-do list. Just writing down "laundry, shopping, mop floors" feels like yet another list of OUGHTs. I can almost see my mother's admonishing look and her raised index finger. So instead, I wrote down "Cat wants a clean house" and "it's inconsiderate not to do laundry" and "Cat REALLY needs to buy coffee". Aaaand... I actually got a few more things done than I would have with ordinary lists. Knowing myself, I'll probably forget about that bright and shiny idea soon enough, but it was a funny experience.

So how about you? What are your experiences with being self-referencing? Or with NOT being it? What are the areas this affects? Do you have any strategies, any favourite method, any one experience that felt particularly liberating?

[Rain]

This is brilliant, Cat!

Thank you so very much!!!!   I needed this.

Perfect!!

[Butterfly]

Great! Love it. Thanks.

[schrödinger's cat]

Thanks, both of you.    I was so nervous about writing this.

[Kizzie]

I didn't realize it before reading your post but I have actually started to do this, I just didn't have a name for it - tks Cat!    It does make things easier when I can name something.  to "Oh look at that, I am self-referencing" or "Whoops, I am other-referencing again."   

My H and I were just talking about what the constant intrusion of NPD FOO into our life does to us (me in particular) how it forces us into the position of what I now understand is "other-referencing" so you can never quite relax or be alone in /with yourself. I don't know if the last part makes sense but that's kind of how it feels, like I always have someone else in my psychic space I have to be concerned about. In a PD FOO you have to be other referenced to survive and then it becomes a habit around other people in general.

Wow, had a big aha or connect the dots moment just now. Part of the reason I don't like to let other people in is because they take up too much space, I feel pulled out of myself because I have to be other-referenced.  I get it now - I am not unsociable or narcissistic as I feared, I just don't know how to self-reference around other people.  I lose myself when I am around other people not because there is no real me, but because I have been trained to submerge myself in favour of others.  Holy cow, this explains so much 

Tks for gathering the courage to write about this Cat   

[schrödinger's cat]

Oooh wow, yes, that ah-ha moment of yours explains a lot for me, too. That's precisely what it feels like: as if others are taking up too much available space, crowding me out. And so I have to leave those situations and be by myself to get some breathing space and feel less squished. That's it. Happy dance! Maybe now I've got one tiny little tool more in my attempt to become less hermit-like. Self-referencing when around others. I'll have to see how one does that. Thanks, Kizzie. 

[Kizzie]

It's such a huge piec of the puzzle that is my CPTSD Cat, I can't thank you enough. 

I really want to learn how to be in the same space as other people and not be crowded out, to feel I have to leave to find myself, be myself.  I am starting to do it but it will be so much easier now that I know what exactly I am trying to do (and not do). 

Yes indeed, happy dance time! 

[Trees]

This is a wonderful discussion, Cat.  I did not know the term "self-referencing".  I think this is what I have been thinking of as "people-pleasing,"  a compulsive need driven by fear and shame to get approval from other people.  And it forces me to spend a lot of time alone because otherwise I am not strong enough to be my own self in the presence of other people.

I have been having those same experiences with re-wording my to-do lists so that, hopefully, they become a list of things that would make me happy instead of a bunch of onerous obligations. !

You know, I could never understand why my mother could be so judgmental of me and so very respecting of other people who didn't seem much different than me.  But there was just no way for me to earn her respect.  And that is why I am still so other-referencing.

It's really validating to see other people are dealing with this same issue.

[Whobuddy]

That's precisely what it feels like: as if others are taking up too much available space, crowding me out.

This would explain why it feels so great to have some alone time. Even thought they are not really asking me to do things, I other-reference if they are here. It is the only relief from other-referencing in my head instead of self-referencing. Thanks!

[Butterfly]

Do you have any strategies, any favourite method, any one experience that felt particularly liberating?

So I've been thinking about this thread for a couple days now and bouncing off your idea of self referencing the to do list what I've come up with is to ask myself the following questions:

- what do I want?  (as in the case of your to do list example or when making decisions)
- what is my goal?
- how do I feel?
- what do I believe? (About myself, others, places, things)
- is this my own voice? (And not someone else's in my head, just to verify)
- what do I think? (Asked as if I'm my own best friend, trying to be objective)

[schrödinger's cat]

Excellent list. If it weren't potentially embarassing in case a visitor sees it, I'd print that out and stick it to my refrigera---- ah hah, now I know: I'll translate this into Russian and stick it to my refrigerator, because no one we see regularly speaks that language. The unexpected upsides of being a translator.

I especially like the point about whose voice this is. So thanks for doing all that work.      

[Butterfly]

Next project is for me to rewrite my to do list Cat style. I love the idea of making it goal oriented around my wishes. It elevates things above just a plain task list.

[Charlotte]

I can hear myself growing.  Thanks for the shares!!    A couple of thoughts.... For this bright and shiny idea.   Around other people, especially if they are overwhelming me, I imagine an impenetrable bubble around myself.  Their words bounce off the bubble and ricochet into space.  That's not with bigger groups though.  I avoid those or ground myself.  Also, about the list on your fridge... May I pose this- is it embarrassing, considering non-cptsd folks do that naturally?     To most, isn't it a lovely reminder of how people operate?  (May be my bias here, you know your experience). 

[Mimijean]

Cat, that is an awesome post.  I think I've been starting to work on this, too.  So many good things in your post. 

 

Wow, had a big aha or connect the dots moment just now. Part of the reason I don't like to let other people in is because they take up too much space, I feel pulled out of myself because I have to be other-referenced.  I get it now - I am not unsociable or narcissistic as I feared, I just don't know how to self-reference around other people.  I lose myself when I am around other people not because there is no real me, but because I have been trained to submerge myself in favour of others.  Holy cow, this explains so much 

Kizzie, that is brilliant.  It explains a lot about me, too.  I like being around people, but they can pull so much out of me.  I really really don't self reference around others. 

[Rrecovery]

Great thread - thank you SC 
Inner-child work helped me learn to be a strong self-referencer/ inner-child referencer.  She's my number one priority and she has been empowered by me to speak up loud and clear about her feelings, needs and wants.  I'm a fierce defender of her; if anyone disrespects her I stop them in their tracks.  I'm her momma bear.
I'm also her cheerleader, mirror and friend.
Inner-child work rocks!