Do we have to forgive?

[C.]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing today that I need to buy the book.  For me, I think it would be a good pre-quel to his book on CPTSD.  I feel like I'm getting ready for the other book with the ASCA workbook and the tsao of fully feeling.  I'm going to buy a paper copy but I know I've seen a kindle version on Amazon, you probably already know that thought! :0)

[anosognosia]

C, I haven't actually seen the kindle version and the hardcopy is 260$ on Amazon... let me know if you find better offers.

[Whobuddy]

I think you can order it right off of Pete Walker's website. http://www.pete-walker.com/

I ordered mine through amazon but it actually came directly from Pete. Signed by him, too! 

[C.]

I found a hard copy in the $20 range, but the suggestion to go to his web site sounds like the best deal for you.  Best of luck, sounds like we'll be reading this together

[Sandals]

* no, you don't have to forgive. You can still feel compassion for the other person, knowing that their actions were also likely fuelled by some sort of abuse done to them as a child. But it doesn't mean you have to forgive their actions.

[Dyess]

I think you can forgive, the forgetting is the hard part. I would love to be that strong to be able to forgive and forget. But I'm just human...*sigh* would love to have some super powers though.

[anosognosia]

I think you can forgive, the forgetting is the hard part. I would love to be that strong to be able to forgive and forget. But I'm just human...*sigh* would love to have some super powers though.

Oh trust me I will never forget. I may have blocked a lot of it out but my limbic system and fear center will never ever forget as exemplified by my hyperarousal, high state of anxiety, etc.

[apples]

As far as I know one should never forgive someone who do not say they are sorry. and then they should change their behaviour long lasting.

another word that could be used instead of forgive is to understand. does anyone here understand why their parents abused them?

my father heard voices in his head that told him to punish us as the voices told him we had done things wrong.
my father was mentally ill. and I do understand that he could not help what he did.

my mother how ever seemed to have a personality disorder. she didn't want to have any children. she wanted to become rich and married my father because of it. she said to me she didn't mind that he abused us as she wasn't abused. She just wanted to live a nice life.

my mother I will never understand. And since she had no remorse about what she did after I confronted her about it I will never forgive her.

[Gabrielle4500]

So my question is - I'm quite happy not having my parents in my life. I am ok with never talking to my family again.  Is it ok to do this?  Is it ok to not forgive?

It's about [i
Wholeheartedly: Yes, it's ok!
]you[/i] and what's best for you. 

I think it's important to do whatever it takes to get the feelings of 'bitterness' (for want of a better word; English is not my first language) or any other feelings that might be holding you back  from present or future progress - but I emphatically do not believe that absolving your f of his hurtful behaviour is in any way neccessary to your own recovery.

I was raised by Narents and like you, on some level I still wish I could make them see and understand the hurt they've put me through and the impact it had and has on my life. But alas, we're truly "children of the self absorbed" and there is no way of getting through to them. So the best option is to look ahead and take the best possible care of ourselves and allow ourselves to heal.

Forgive your f inasmuch as it's neccessary for your own sake - that's all you're responsible for IMO.

Hello!

I have not forgiven my parents, and I do not believe we 'have to'. And I am not 'resentful, angry,'... etc as many think.
My main objective is to forgive myself for 'not being able to be stronger' as a child. 
My mother, too, was a narcissist. I can well imagine we have suffered a lot!

[apples]

the one we need to forgive is ourself. that is what I have done a few years ago. I blamed myself for what my parents did. I tried to figure out what I did wrong that made them hate me.

I didn't do anything wrong. And I am not to blame and I am forgiven. I showed so much hate towards myself in the past for not being perfect. I tried to better myself all the time. I studied harder and harder and I learned how to speak really well. and I behaved really well and was a very nice child and still my parents had complains about me.

but its all forgiven. I didn't do anything wrong. its okay to be me "apples". I am an okay person what ever I do. I do my best every day and that is fine.

[Gabrielle4500]

I don't wish my Narents ill and I don't wish my them well, either. I just don't wish them to be a part of my life, that's all. --- And I don't even feel guilty about that. I deserve to concentrate on myself and my FOC and allow myself to heal and grow.

Well said KF! 

I agree! My parents are both dead. My mother was the 'main abuser' but my father abandoned me in her hands, never stuck up for me.
It is easy for society to judge us... us who somehow gained the courage to look after ourselves, and see things for what they are. If others choose to remain blind, I see no reason to accompany them in their way down!

[spryte]

I've had a lot of arguments about this with people, especially online because there are some truly ridiculous "forgiveness" memes that go around a lot of the healing and positivity groups on FB. They make me incredibly angry. They associate the concept of forgiveness with character traits like strength, empathy, compassion - take for example this one...
http://ukrchurchorlando.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/forgive1.png

It's a quote from Mother Theresa. "If we really want to love, we must learn how to forgive." So, if you never forgive, you will never know how to love? That's ridiculous.

There are tons of these out there, insinuating that if you DON'T forgive, or CAN'T forgive, then you:
-are not compassionate
-are not strong
-will never heal
-will never be as "enlightened" as Mother Theresa or any of the other spiritual icons that these quotes come from
-will never 'get well' or 'move on'

The strength one comes up again and again. Google "forgive" or "forgiveness" and go to images. You'll see the memes.

To me, it is revictimization for people who have suffered trauma's. How dare them tell anyone who has gone through emotional trauma at the hands of another human being that if they can't forgive them, they will never heal and that they are not strong. How dare them.

People say "Forgiveness isn't for them, it's for you. So that you don't carry around hate in your heart." It's become such a trite platitude. If you actually press someone, ask them..."What does that actually mean, "it's not for them, it's for me"? How does that help me with my symptoms?" They won't be able to answer you.

Because here's the thing, the definition of forgive that pops up  when you google it says:To either stop feeling angry or resentful towards someone for an offense, flaw, or mistake. That's the most accepted definition in this context. And people can say that it doesn't absolve the other person of what they did, all they like...but the synonyms of forgive are: absolve, pardon, excuse, exonerate, overlook, disregard, ignore.

I honestly believe that forgiving the abusers is a stage in denial and rationalization of what happened. I did it. I've seen other people do it. In an effort to put it all behind me, move on, and have a relationship with my abuser, I "forgave" her. I convinced myself that I'd let it all go. I did this before I ever had any idea what the impact of her abuse on me was and I put myself in harms way by allowing her to do it again.

Letting go of hurt and anger is something that MAY come with time. It may not. It's ok either way. Being angry, as long as you're actively working towards healing, won't destroy you. For me, it inspires me. My anger and outrage at my own treatment and the treatment of others is a catalyst for working through my stuff enough to be able to help others.

[mourningdove]

 

Spryte, you wrote everything I wished I could have said but couldn't because the forgiveness convo is so enormously triggering to me. Thank you so much. 

[spryte]

I'm glad what I wrote spoke to you. It used to be triggering for me too. I've gotten a bit better at articulating why it makes me so angry.

Here are some great articles you might be interested in.
http://emergingfrombroken.com/the-confusion-created-around-forgiveness-issues/
http://emergingfrombroken.com/forgiveness-and-child-abuse-when-suggesting-forgiveness-is-abusive/
http://emergingfrombroken.com/forgive-the-abusers-a-bit-of-a-rant/

[Dutch Uncle]

To me, it is revictimization for people who have suffered trauma's. How dare them tell anyone who has gone through emotional trauma at the hands of another human being that if they can't forgive them, they will never heal and that they are not strong. How dare them.

Letting go of hurt and anger is something that MAY come with time. It may not. It's ok either way. Being angry, as long as you're actively working towards healing, won't destroy you. For me, it inspires me. My anger and outrage at my own treatment and the treatment of others is a catalyst for working through my stuff enough to be able to help others.

Well said. I agree fully with all you've said.

During my trip out of the FOG I discovered a website that has been helpful for me, and it has an article on forgiveness.
Perhaps you'll find it helpful too.
http://www.traumahealed.com/articles/allow-self-forgiveness.html
excerpts:

One more task
Too often, people recommend forgiving others to sidestep appropriate rage and protect abusers from natural consequences of their behavior. "He's being nice now," they say, or, "She never bothers me." Forgiveness becomes a cruel yardstick for healing, one more task before survivors can feel good enough.

Forgiveness for vulnerability
In some cases, self-forgiveness decreases forgiveness for others. In our efforts to protect and forgive abusers, we blame ourselves for the abuse. When we can forgive ourselves for being vulnerable, trusting, or simply finding ourselves in the vicinity of an abuser, we may feel less forgiving of the person choosing abusive behavior, at least for a while.

It's a quote from Mother Theresa. "If we really want to love, we must learn how to forgive." So, if you never forgive, you will never know how to love? That's ridiculous.

If you want a deconstruction of the "Mother Theresa Myth", watch this documentary by Christopher Hitchens:
Warning: there's a good reason why it is titled "*'s Angel". Her image gets a threshing. View on your own discretion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4