Doctors and the law.

[thetruth]

Hi,

I have not posted in a long time.

I just want to ask a question.

Is it legal and ethical for a  doctor to refuse to attribute your stress to unfair treatment in the workplace, after they have been made aware of the problem for a period of years and after they have been informed that you are about to be unfairly dismissed from the job because you have had to protest about unfair treatment?


The shorter version of that question would be, is it legal for a doctor to refuse to say on a sick line that your stress is work related when they know it is work related and they have already said as much in their notes?

If that is legal in a developed country in 2018 how can that be ok?

Thanks.

[Boy22]

I dont know which country and or state you are in but as to ethics, yes it is acceptable. A doctor should only record on a formal document things they can state that they know to be true. So whilst you may have told them numerous times and they appeared to believe you they have not independently verified the situation.

So the doctor is behaving as if stating something will leave them legally vulnerable, which they dont want to be.

[thetruth]

Thanks Boy22.

I suppose  what my question is then is, how is it ethical for a doctor to refuse to state the true nature of a set of circumstances when not stating the true circumstances has such a detrimental effect for their patient?

The injustice that can result from a doctor refusing to state a truth he knows to be true has been severe in my case. By that I mean life and health ruining.

My gp effectively assisted in my unfair dismissal. He was very well informed on the situation but he rejected the truth in order to avoid inconvenience. I just cannot comprehend how this is possible in a civilised society. He knew I was going to lose my job and he didn't care. When I say lose my job I mean be unfairly dismissed. He withheld the only support available to me.

[Sceal]

It's difficult to give advice on this as each country has their different health care systems and different laws.

But you should be able ask for a print out of your entire medical journal, and if he has written down your situation in the journal, that could potentially help you legally. As a patient's journal is a legal document.

As far as ethics go, it's trickier. Your GP might simply not believe in you. And if he doesn't believe you are saying the truth it might never be a beneficial patient-doctor relationship. The trust do need to go both ways in order to give and get the best treatment. If you feel unsafe it might be better to find a different GP.

I've worked at a doctor's office, and I've seen similar situations you are describing from both sides. It is difficult.

[Boy22]

(Edited by Boy22 for clarity)
My gp effectively assisted in my unfair dismissal. He was very well informed on the situation but he rejected the truth in order to avoid inconvenience. He knew I was going to lose my job and he didn't care. When I say lose my job I mean be unfairly dismissed. He withheld the only support available to me.

I just cannot comprehend how this is possible in a civilised society.

You are here thetruth because our society is not fair. It is worse than unfair, it traumatises and retraumatises some of us over and over. And Doctors dont come ready formed as perfect human beings, in fact their training de-humanises them.

[thetruth]

Hi Sceal and Boy22,

Thanks a lot for your replies.

There is even more to it. Following having attempted to describe the trouble I was having with an employer, and after 4 years of traumatizing complex, varied nature harassment, in a state of sheer desperation, I gave my employer permission to speak to my gp. My gp had known me all my life and he knew my history of depressive episodes.

I fully trusted my gp to live up to his reputation of being a man of integrity. I trusted this man and I believed his involvement could only lead towards some long overdue fairness. I was so mistaken.

My gp has never told me what my employer said but it is now clear that my employer used the opportunity to misrepresent the stress i was experiencing as not being a product of unfair treatment. Despite what I had previously told my gp about the harassment I was enduring, my gp went along with the desires of my abusive employer. He sat back and did nothing as they unfairly dismissed me and he refused to say my stress was related to my employer. He served his own convenience regardless of the cost to me.

I have my doctor's notes. A year before he refused to say my stress was work related on a sick line, which would have prevented my unfair dismissal, he recorded in his noted that my issues were work related.

It's been 5 years and my mind is owned by the unfairness of the circumstances. It is my reality and I don't know how a gp has the power to reject truth if he doesn't like it. I don't know how he doesn't have a duty to take more care, a responsibility to behave in a way that protects the victim of harassment when they tell him that is happening.

It appears to be if a doctor dislikes ge reality affecting his patient he can reject it at the expense of the patients mental health. This is hardly fair and it means a doctor can cause harm to avoid inconvenience.

Is it not time doctors cannot deny reality to suit themselves? My doctor caused me massive harm. I don't know how this is ok.

[thetruth]

It appears to be hard to convey exactly what this doctor did. I find people are by nature, averse to believing he was as betraying as he was. He adressed my stress as if it was just the same as previous depressive episodes despite my telling him my troubles were caused by harassment. He used my having a history of depressive episodes as a means to avoid attributing my stress to the harassment that caused it because that way was less likely to inconvenience him.

And he did this in the knowledge that that was more accommodating for my abusive employer who he was in discussion with  at the time as I had invited my doctor into the mix to try to achieve fairness.

It is hard for me to convey how unjust my doctors behaviour was. He helped my employer misrepresent my difficulty to render them innocent of harassment.

I can't reconcile this stuff with anything that makes it bearable.

Around about June I benefited from someone sharing a thought on this forum. That was....'the human mind can cope with tragedy but it cannot cope with evil.'

This helped me drop my trouble for around 10 to 12 weeks. Alas my anxiety and preoccupation is back now and here I am again, struggling and close to having to withdraw from life again.

[Blueberry]

The thought helped you for 10-12 weeks? That's great. Sounds like some healing has been going on.

Now it has blindsided you again. Unfortunately ime fairly normal with cptsd. It sounds unfair and unjust and if maybe that's what is triggering you. It's really hard when our trust is betrayed. That can feel like the heart of the traumatisation.

I don't feel I can say anything helpful except standing with you.

[Boy22]

The betrayal of trust you have suffered is massive. It is going to take you some time to be able to move on.

Venting here, and with a therapist, is useful.

[thetruth]

Hi Blueberry and Boy22,

Thanks again for replying.

The thinking about the events of the past has become automatic again. The effect is constant anxiety. A kind of dread and sense of defeat. It's also heavily laced with frustration.

Just recently I went away for a week to a friend's house in Dublin. I had great freedom when there but thoughts of a need for justice crept in even when there. Moving back home opened the floodgates for difficult rumination and intense anxiety. There is a pattern emerging. Coming back home to the environment where the old employer is and where the medical practice of my betraying GP is, triggers me.

I am considering a holiday to a friend in up state New York to jolt my mind, to give me a good distraction.

The  broken record is playing again. The rumination is really bringing me down. Maybe a visit to another part of the world will be good for my mind.

Has anyone else used travel to combat C ptsd or C ptsd-like troubles?

[Libby183]

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with such a harrowing situation.  I have often been bullied at work - I was a nurse, and bullying in the health care system in the UK is a huge,  and accepted problem.

Recently,  my son who has minor learning difficulties,  was subjected to intense bullying at a law firm. The reaction of the GP to his mental and physical suffering was, well?  Nothing.  Not bothered,  not interested.  Son left job and is doing well,  and no bullying.

I simply don't believe that GPs have any role to play in helping us. They are not there for us, they are there to keep society running smoothly,  keep people working and off benefits.  There is no place for compassion in this set up, and I do not believe that anyone with compassion really makes it in the medical profession.  I have grave concerns about therapy as well.  NHS therapy earlier in the year has left me in a far worse mental state than I have ever been in (although EMDR helped a lot with chronic pain). Have said this to two GPS - both times,  they shrugged and sent me on my way.

I can offer nothing ( and am worried that my views are unacceptable)  but I want you to know that I understand your pain, and the intensity of your betrayal.  Venting here is a real lifeline.

Take care.

[Libby183]

Sorry to butt in again, but I just saw your new post,  regarding your rumination over this issue.  I understand completely,  although my main area of rumination is my relationship with my parents,  where my difficulties stem from.  It is so exhausting, isn't it?  But I think that travel,  and doing anything different is an excellent idea, and I hope very much, that you get to try this out.

All the best to you.

Libby.

[thetruth]

Thanks a lot Libby. Yes it is exhausting. So much so, withdrawing from life is sometimes the only way forward, complete time out.

What you say about GPs not caring or feeling any sense of duty to do the right thing rings very true.  I could give you many interesting quotes from my GP to show what I was up against but 2 will suffice. On two separate occasions, 2 years apart, after I had been wrongfully dismissed from my job and I was trying to explain to my GP what was so unjust about that he responded with typical indifference. This was after he refused to say my stress was work related on a sick line he was writing 2 weeks before my wrongful dismissal.

In  April 2015 almost 2 years after losing my job he replied to my describing the harassment I endured in that job with the statement, "Well I have no axe to grind with them."

1.5 years after that in December 2016 when I was back in his office again out of my mind with anxiety over the same injustices he said, "Are you going to move on or what?"

My being affected by the harassment which he ignored and the wrongful dismissal that he helped to happen  was a real nuisance for him.

The last thing on earth he was going to do, at any point in this now 9 year battle, was say that my grievances were legitimate.

He addressed me as if I was a nuisance.

[thetruth]

Sorry to butt in again, but I just saw your new post,  regarding your rumination over this issue.  I understand completely,  although my main area of rumination is my relationship with my parents,  where my difficulties stem from.  It is so exhausting, isn't it?  But I think that travel,  and doing anything different is an excellent idea, and I hope very much, that you get to try this out.

All the best to you.

Libby.

Hi Libby,

I can relate to your having difficulties with your parents also.

Have you described your experiences in other threads and if so can you link me?

Rumination is exhausting. You are already worn out when you wake up in the morning.

[Rainagain]

Hello again the truth,

I'm sorry to hear about the ruminating, it sounds a bit like the intrusive thoughts I also suffer from.

In my case I am unable to accept what has happened to me when I am feeling very low, when I am stronger it gets easier for a while.

I think of it like a stage of grieving - acceptance. Full acceptance will happen sometime and silence the voice in our head. I believe we can get past this stage and become accepting of the trauma, I don't know why I think that. I just sort of know it.