Did your abuser ever acknowledge? Apologize?

[saylor]

**trigger**
I have a hunch, that’s impossible to verify (at this point), that if my F, who brutally beat me regularly when I was a young child, had ever acknowledged what he did to me and the long-lasting harm it’s done to me (and, ideally, expressed remorse), then I’d be much better off than I am today.
He’s dead, so no chance of that now.
Even when I did express my grievances a long time ago, he didn’t take the opportunity to try to make things better and own what he had done to me. In fact, he kind of punished me for my having estranged myself from him (as in, how dare I not be a doting daughter?) I won’t go into details, except to say he was a sick, demonic individual, right up to the day he died, and exacted one final abuse on me from the grave.
My question is, did you ever confront your abusive parent, and how did they react? If they did the brave thing and took responsibility, did that help?
In my reading, it seems as though it’s very common for the parent to refuse to do this. That just compounds the damage and propagates the pain. This is so mystifying to me—how someone can hurt an innocent child—one’s own child—so much, and not feel bad and want to make amends... I can’t move forward because of this

[Blueberry]

I've confronted and the aftermath wasn't exactly beneficial to me, in fact it was horrendous. It's typical for parents to go into denial-fueled rage or in some cases a 'waify' I-couldn't-help-it it was the other parent's fault.

I have a sibling who took responsibility for his share and apologised. But unfortunately he didn't really change. No more phyiscal abuse, but emotional/verbal and gas-lighting etc. And of course doing his level best to keep the status quo which means preventing me from rocking the family boat in any way. It took me a long time to see through that. It helped at the time that he apologised but in the long run it maybe held me back in my progress. 

This is emotionally all pretty hard stuff which you're going through. We understand on here. I think you will be able to move forwards when your healing time is right. Sometimes even just writing about it on here helps us inch forward.

If you want them, some  to take away a bit of that pain.

[Deep Blue]

Hey Saylor,

******* trigger warning PA and emotional abuse*****




My abuser would hit me and then convince me that I deserved it.  A favorite line was "you know why I had to do that right?"  I always said yes 
End trigger warning*****


In their minds they were justified for what they did... before, after, always.  I don't think an apology would ever had made things better.  In my opinion an apology from an abuser is rarely heartfelt and they lack the capicity for remorse.  If they were really sorry they would have stopped hurting me! Just saying...

I'm sorry you are having trouble moving forward because of this.  The thing is, sociopaths don't feel remorse so an apology would just be words. Take care

[saturnine]

I haven't spoken to my F for several years because I know in my soul that he will never acknowledge or apologize for the things he did. His addiction and mental illness kept him from seeing clearly when the abuse took place, and for all I know he's still dealing with both of those and would never be able to see clearly long enough to hear my perspective. Not once in my life did he ever really care what I thought or felt and that wouldn't change now.

I tend to think that the last thing evil can tolerate is being pointed out...people of poor quality will do anything they can to avoid the truth if it reflects poorly on them. They don't want to look in the mirror, they don't want to see and accept their own evil. It's all truly selfish on their part.

I can imagine how unfinished things must feel for you and how difficult it is to move forward. Take it day by day - I'll hold some hope for you that you'll one day find peace on this.

[Three Roses]

My parents didn't feel they were abusive. My sibling has expressed regret but still has trouble regulating his emotions. Parents are decreased and I am NC with sibling. I did once try to talk about stuff with my mom when she was still alive but she threw a loaf of frozen bread at me and then said it slipped out of her hands! 😂

IMO, if they are so damaged that they can't control their emotions, chances are slim you'll get anywhere if you try to discuss it with them. I've found writing letters to them - here and in my hand written journals - very helpful.

[saylor]

Thanks for your responses.
Now I'm wondering what I expected. I think I was looking for some vicarious redemption (?)
The betrayal, by parents, is so depressing and gut-wrenching. It shatters hope for trust. It guarantees (for me, anyway) an obsession with justice never realized. I feel so empty over this.
Thank you, also, for the supportive words. I wish you all as best as can be attained/expected on this journey through darkness (at least for me, that's what it keeps feeling like)

[LilyITV]

***trigger warning PA

There's no way my father would ever acknowledge or apologize because in his mind he was justified in beating me and my brother with a belts, switches and hands as punishment.  In our culture corporal punishment is accepted and even celebrated.  Not only does he not apologize, but he criticizes me for not doing the same to my children. 

In my case, my father's beatings rarely left lasting physical injury other than welts that would go away after a day or so, but still I don't think that makes it any more justifiable.

On to the question of whether it would help if you did get an apology, I think it really would.  My mother abandoned me emotionally at age 9.  She suffered from mental illness and it was definitely not intentional.  In time, she realized the enormous impact of what she had done to me and spent the rest of her life trying to make  amends.  Although I still suffer the impact of what she did, I feel it is easier for me to move on and heal from those wounds.  I don't feel angry at her--only sad, for her and for me.  She died 9 years ago and I am at peace with what happened as a child.

My dad on the other hand, I feel an enormous amount of anger.  I still have to come to terms with the fact that I'll never get an apology. He'll never change and never give me the acceptance and love that I need from him.  I'm angry even though he is a victim of his own childhood, he still has the ability to change and refuses. 

[saylor]

**trigger**
Lily, my F had apparently been abused, too. He never provided details, and I was afraid to ask.
I did, however, one time meekly insinuate that he was being hard on me in a seemingly excessive, unjustified way (his beatings were always way out of step with the severity of my so-called "crimes"). For some reason, on this particular occasion, I felt the need to speak up, though it terrified me. His response was something along the lines of, "WELL, SOME DAY I'LL TELL YOU WHAT MY PARENTS DID TO ME!" There was no debating with him. He pretty much shut it down, right there.
Once I was safe and away from him forever, as an independent adult, I reminded him of this as part of a letter I wrote expressing my grievances, and told him that if he felt he couldn't do better, he should never have had kids. And I still feel that way. It's incomprehensible to me that someone could decide that it's ok to beat their kids if they, themselves, were beaten. I realize it could simply be that "that's all he knew", and also that he was perhaps mentally ill enough not to have solid judgment or rage-control, but I still find that excuse weak and unconvincing. I really wish he had gone to whatever lengths necessary not to bring me into the world, if he couldn't resist beating me. He so clearly didn't want to make the effort to be a good-enough parent (a la Pete Walker).
On a related note, a HAVOCA survey (https://www.havoca.org/havoca-survey/havoca-survey-results/) that was listed in another forum member's recent post has a lot of discussion in the comments about whether we should cut our parents some slack for beating us if they, themselves, were abused. Most posters seem to think "no", but several have called for more understanding. I've tried to give my own F the benefit of the doubt based on what little I know of his own upbringing, but it doesn't really work for me. I'm still enraged and resentful

[LilyITV]

**trigger**
Lily, my F had apparently been abused, too. He never provided details, and I was afraid to ask.
I did, however, one time meekly insinuate that he was being hard on me in a seemingly excessive, unjustified way (his beatings were always way out of step with the severity of my so-called "crimes"). For some reason, on this particular occasion, I felt the need to speak up, though it terrified me. His response was something along the lines of, "WELL, SOME DAY I'LL TELL YOU WHAT MY PARENTS DID TO ME!" There was no debating with him. He pretty much shut it down, right there.
Once I was safe and away from him forever, as an independent adult, I reminded him of this as part of a letter I wrote expressing my grievances, and told him that if he felt he couldn't do better, he should never have had kids. And I still feel that way. It's incomprehensible to me that someone could decide that it's ok to beat their kids if they, themselves, were beaten. I realize it could simply be that "that's all he knew", and also that he was perhaps mentally ill enough not to have solid judgment or rage-control, but I still find that excuse weak and unconvincing. I really wish he had gone to whatever lengths necessary not to bring me into the world, if he couldn't resist beating me. He so clearly didn't want to make the effort to be a good-enough parent (a la Pete Walker).
On a related note, a HAVOCA survey (https://www.havoca.org/havoca-survey/havoca-survey-results/) that was listed in another forum member's recent post has a lot of discussion in the comments about whether we should cut our parents some slack for beating us if they, themselves, were abused. Most posters seem to think "no", but several have called for more understanding. I've tried to give my own F the benefit of the doubt based on what little I know of his own upbringing, but it doesn't really work for me. I'm still enraged and resentful

I think you are totally justified in being angry.  I do not believe anyone is born evil and I believe that everyone who is abusive learned to be that way.  However, in the end, we all have the power to  make choices.  At some point, we all know that hurting people is wrong, even people who have been abused.  It may be harder for that person to overcome his circumstances, but it still is no excuse to hurt other innocent people. 

The only people I would give a pass is people who for whatever reason do not know what they are doing is wrong--maybe they're in a cult or something?--or people who are so severely mentally ill or disabled that they are out of touch with reality.  Everyone else has the ability to make the right choices.   

I am all for getting therapy to people who need it, but what I'm not for is totally excusing them for choices they made.  I understand why my father is the way he is, but know he has irrefutable evidence that what he did was wrong.  What's worse in my mind he has me telling him how what he did hurt me.  That is what makes me angry.  I would feel awful if I were doing something to my daughter that made her feel this kind of pain.   My dad doesn't care about that and insists that he is right.  So why do I have to give him forgiveness if he doesn't even want to try to understand.  It is more important for him to be right than to make me feel better. 

[saylor]

I don't think you do have to give him forgiveness. If you're unable to, then you're unable to.
I personally can't comprehend what "forgiveness" would look like in the case of a perpetrator who not only shows no remorse, but can't even bring himself to acknowledge wrongdoing in the first place. My brain goes blank there

[Phoebes]

Saylor,
First of all, I'm so sorry this is your experience. I can relate exactly to all that you've said, as well as the others' responses. My Nm said the same stuff and reacted the same ways. She is not going to apologize, and I'm supposed to continually "forgive and forget" without any change from her behavior. Same abuse cycles. If she were truly remorseful and expressed this in a way that indicated she was truly sorry for how beating and berating me must have effected me, I could likely forgive, and try for a relationship. That is all I wanted. I probably would have even lived with the covert jabs and slights.

But, as her abuse amplified a few years back, I had not planned on confronting, per se, but felt throughout life that something needed to be "done." In a conversation she started and reacted in a rageful way, I had finally had enough of "accepting" her telling me what happened to me and how I feel about it (of course not the truth), and I said in a normal tone, that's not how I feel or the way it happened. The conversation of course escalated and she said "I bet you think I owe you an apology-well I don't and I will never apologize because I just did what was done to me and that's all I knew, and if you can't forgive that's YOUR problem." She also said "if" I was molested it was MY fault. Lots of things she blurted out that day.

I actually calmly said that yes, if she were truly sorry for the things she had done, it would help me a lot, be she doesn't sound like she is. She went on to confirm that she "never laid a hand on me" while justifying in the next sentence slapping me across the face for giggling with my friend in the mall. (Because she had said not to make a peep in the mall.)

After that whole thing she started texting and calling non-stop. I ignored, and finally a couple of weeks later I said I just need some time and space, and I will reach out when I'm ready. She continued to text and write letters and cards gaslighting me, saying how I was ruining the family and how once I turned 18 it was up to me to get over my childhood, and that holding a grudge is not christian. All the while telling others she has no idea what my problem is, that she apologized for things she doesn't remember and I won't forgive her. She always new there was something wrong with me, etc. The usual.

So anyway, all of that to say, I have grappled with your same questions..AM I being to harsh? WHY did she have me if she planned to make me feel the way her parents made her feel? Why couldn't she have TRIED to be different? Why couldn't she read books, go to therapists? Why didn't she love me enough to care? Why can't she apologize for how she treated/treats me?

After 3 years of really bad emotional pain, I still struggle with moving forward, but I have gotten over the worst of the hump. I think it takes varying times for everyone, but what has kept me moving forward (3 steps forward 2 steps back)  is continuing to learn intellectually about N-Abuse, C-PTSD, and what sticks in my mind a lot is it is important that I "unlearn" everything I have been brainwashed to believe, and "relearn" it according to my instincts, my heart and my own self. One thing I realize is that of course this is going to feel wrong, disconnected, and impossible to move forward, because essentially we are part of a tribe that does not love us. Our basic instinctual needs have never been met, and we have to do the unnatural and do this for ourselves, and find our own tribe, starting with ourselves as the parent figure.

I struggled with this all being on me (after all the "you're lucky you didn't have MY parents"etc.), my fault and my problem to forgive and forget, and forget about through gaslighting (did it even happen 2 minutes ago?) I'm finally realizing, the abuse was her fault, she is not sorry, she feels entitled to insist she had  the right to beat and berate me, still does. (Although I am NC so she doesn't "get" to.) Literally, if I ever had an issue with her putting me down as an adult she still said "I get to be the mother." (So strange). It was all brainwashing that I felt obligated to even listen or be around such a vile creature. I don't hate my mom, I feel sorry for her. But I am also learning that having self-respect means staying away from those who feel entitled to abuse me. That has taken time to sink in but it's helping me move forward, and feel a lot less devastated over time..Sorry this is really long..I really feel for you and all that you said, and all that the others said.. We can all relate and are here to support you.

[saylor]

Wow, Phoebes, that is so painful. All of you guys: my heart goes out to you. ;-(
If only the parents could understand (and care) that denying and deflecting just retraumatizes the abused person and widens the gap between family members, making healing and future closeness less and less likely.
And yes, the fact that they deny (gaslighting) so fervently can make you start to wonder, "ARE you overreacting? Maybe it wasn't that bad after all...?", which, in turn, makes the Inner Critic jump in and castigate you for being oversensitive/overly-demanding/spoiled/whatever, and the cycle of misery continues. Once again, it's like you're denied the right to feel (and therefore process) the pain and anger. It's hard to find a way out of the maze.
Good luck, and hugs to you all...

[LilyITV]

Saylor, yes such a good point how awful all the denying, deflecting and gaslighting is.  I struggle massively with feeling like I'm overreacting and with minimizing the severity of the abuse.  Sometimes it feels like the whole world is against me...

But then I think about my own children and the reality of what happened is made much clearer.  Under no circumstance could I ever do what my dad did to me to my children.  How could any parent who loves their child do this??  Getting beaten like that is so incredibly painful.   It's torture pure and simple.   Even as an adult, I shudder at the thought of getting beaten like that. And that bogus "this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you" line they always repeat makes zero sense and was the absolute worse thing you could say to someone, especially a child.  We don't even do that to criminals who have committed the worst of crimes so how could that be okay for a child who is just doing something completely normal and appropriate given their age??

[Blueberry]

Now I'm wondering what I expected. I think I was looking for some vicarious redemption (?)
The betrayal, by parents, is so depressing and gut-wrenching. It shatters hope for trust. It guarantees (for me, anyway) an obsession with justice never realized. I feel so empty over this.

saylor, I've long been pretty obsessed with justice. My obsession comes out in totally unrelated areas of my life, where FOO is not at all present. Towards FOO too of course. This obsession is lessening and I no longer feel so much internal rage when I'm being gaslighted and things like that.

What has helped me a lot has been writing Recovery Letters here http://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?board=43.0 Somehow directing a letter at whoever in "you" form instead of just writing about the issue has been very cathartic for me. When words used to fail me, I sometimes used this expressive little emoticon which was pretty cathartic too. As others on here told me when I was struggling: "it's good to get the poison out." There will be people on here to cheer when you write a letter, validate your feelings and support you if and when you're down after writing one of these letters.

I know your self-questioning well, e.g. "Was it really that bad??" It was that bad, in your case too. ime it can get bad again fairly fast. These FOO mbrs if they refuse to look at their own behaviour, then they're destined to repeat it. Just not to be trusted. The sibling I mentioned further upthread said to me a few years back that if anybody in FOO tried that emotional/verbal abuse on me again, they'd have him to reckon with. Nice sentiment, but the one time I really, really needed a bit of back-up in FOO, he refused, though he would have been well capable of making the other person back off a bit.

On our sister website Out Of The Fog http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php they even have a section of letters you wish you could receive e.g. from an abuser acknowledging how they hurt you. I personally am not capable of writing that - the pain is too much - but if helps you, that's an idea for Letters of Recovery too.

[saylor]

Thank you for mentioning that, Blueberry. I'm going to check them out