PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*

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Phoebes

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PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« on: April 24, 2019, 04:44:35 AM »
I notice many articles or websites all about Narc Abuse talk about emotional abuse, and may mention how EA is as bad or worse than PA. I can appreciate how damaging the EA alone is, of course.

From my experience, when there was PA, there was also EA, so to me, it was a lot worse, because the sadistic, rageful messages and expressions were cemented with the PA. I feel like this combination over such a long time is what literally ruined me into not being able to make decisions, get away, feel worthy, express myself.

My NM would have me believe that this was all normal, and that I deserved what I was getting. Made to believe that expressing a thought or opinion was indeed being disrespectful and deserving of very harsh punishment. That making a "mistake", aka having some sort of accident, was definitely reason to "get the belt."

After 4 years of getting a much better understanding of NA and how it's affected me, as well as processing and grieving some of the more major episodes, I feel that these flashbacks are a lot less visceral than they were. But sometimes it leaves me feeling at a loss for what to do with that experience or memory.

I easily go back to anger or resentment when i'm triggered with these memories, and I don't know what else to do with the physical abuse aspect. Since I keep hearing the emotional abuse is worse, it's confusing since so many times it went together. I just lump it all together, but I feel like as much as I'm reading and processing and feel better at times, I think I've swept some of the physical stuff under the rug because I've felt there's just no point. How does one heal from the emotional wounds of being hit so much and so often, and gaslighted into having to immediately pretend it never happened, now and immediately when it happened. It's like my horrifying experiences were immediately and forever erased (for everyone but me). And I am the bad guy for wanting space, and now for going NC.

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Three Roses

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 06:28:52 PM »
Quote
From my experience, when there was PA, there was also EA, so to me, it was a lot worse, because the sadistic, rageful messages and expressions were cemented with the PA. I feel like this combination over such a long time is what literally ruined me into not being able to make decisions, get away, feel worthy, express myself.

My NM would have me believe that this was all normal, and that I deserved what I was getting. Made to believe that expressing a thought or opinion was indeed being disrespectful and deserving of very harsh punishment. That making a "mistake", aka having some sort of accident, was definitely reason to "get the belt."

I identify strongly with these statements. I'm sorry that today I don't have an answer for you in how to escape these feelings as it seems beyond me today. I'm going to crack open my Pete Walker book today and do some work on this flashback, 'cuz I think that's what it is, this time anyway.

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Blueberry

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 09:28:57 PM »
I notice many articles or websites all about Narc Abuse talk about emotional abuse, and may mention how EA is as bad or worse than PA.

They may talk about the damage of EA because it used to be overlooked a lot. "Abuse" used to just mean PA and SA - or at least that's what people thought.

I've heard survivors themselves saying the EA was worse than SA (even some who experienced really bad CSA). That's OK for a survivor themselves to say about their own past, but I don't think anybody else should presume to decide for you or me what was worse or not. When people do that to me, I get annoyed. It's certainly not OK for your NM to decide on that - then or now. When she's saying it now, she's continuing the abuse in another form.

At least on here we understand about going NC and accept that that is certainly what some of us have to do. I'm still VVVLC myself, but you know yourself that you need NC, and that's it. I fully support you in that decision. You know best what you need.

How to heal? That's maybe a rhetorical question? If not rhetorical, all I can say is: you heal bit by bit. My own anger and feelings of resentment have gone way down, fortunately.

From my experience, when there was PA, there was also EA, so to me, it was a lot worse, because the sadistic, rageful messages and expressions were cemented with the PA. I feel like this combination over such a long time is what literally ruined me into not being able to make decisions, get away, feel worthy, express myself.

I feel at a loss for words here - the way you write it is the way you experienced it and it sounds terrible! If it helps, gentle :hug:

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Elphanigh

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2019, 01:56:23 PM »
I would like to just come here and echo what everyone else has said. I honestly read this yesterday and did not have the words to express my thoughts, and I am not sure I do today either but I will try.

As someone that experienced horrific CSA and PA, what you wrote really hit home for me. With both of those came EA and manipulation that was certainly a contributing factor to the harm done, but I could never say that my EA was worse or more damaging than anything else I experienced. They always came in combination so it is hard to separate them for me as well.

How to heal? That is a large question, but please know it is possible to heal from PA. I have done a great deal of processing on mine, and am continuing to do so. The flashbacks have mostly subsided and I am so much less jumpy than I used to be. For me working through EMDR and especially Somatic modalities has helped the PA specific memories a great deal. It takes time and a lot of compassion for yourself, but it is possible. I would say NC is probably a great step towards that. Like others I am LC not NC,  but commend anyone that goes NC if it is right for them and it sounds like it is for you.

That all sounds pretty jumbled coming out, so hopefully it still helps. Know I am sitting with you in this  :hug:

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Kizzie

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2019, 02:10:08 PM »
IME one type and/or degree of abuse is not worse than another - they all result in a core wound to our sense of self, our safety, worth, belonging, esteem, of being lovable ....  But I have heard members of OOTF talking about what you've brought up Phoebes. 

I have a bit of a different understanding b/c I am the child of parents with covert NPD.  It was crazy making in the sense that I didn't know for a long time - decades actually - if they were actually abusing me. As I came to figure out I have CPTSD as a result of their covert EA, I felt like if I had been physically and/or sexually abused I would have  known earlier on and not taken as much time to figure things out.

So EA by those with covert NPD is clumsily described by some as 'worse' in this sense I think, versus a worse form of abuse in general. 

Just my thoughts but I hope this will shed some light on why some survivors do say things like they do IMO. In the end it's all damaging and that's why we're all here unfortunately.   
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 02:12:04 PM by Kizzie »

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Phoebes

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 02:36:26 PM »
I think I've been really focused on understanding the covert EA for much of my NC time (because it has been such an eye-opener and shocking to uncover the depths of it) that I put the PA aspect on the back burner. But then, realizing the PA wasn't something separate from EA, as it was intertwined.

It's just another layer to recover from, and when I first went NC and started learning and realizing this stuff, the worst PA episodes were the first flashbacks I had to work on. I do feel a lot less jumpy and triggered now. But, having gone through a lot more emotional triggers and realizing the degree to which the EA was INTENTIONAL, I find myself once again relating the manipulation and EA solidified by the PA, and the constant threats of PA.

I've been triggered by my constant inability to express myself and stick with something. I get so disappointed in myself and feel like such a failure. And I have remembered many instances where my starting to express my likes and desires was very very harshly taken away and repressed. I'm just trying to work through all of that, and it ranges from covert EA, overt EA, to PA, to sadistic PA. Wish I could just do what society says and "let it go" and all be well but that has never gotten me there.

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Blueberry

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2019, 06:45:31 PM »
Those in society who advise us to "let it go" don't have cptsd, or they do but are in denial about it.  :hug: :hug: for what you're going through now and what you went through as a child. I find after really rough phases in the present, I jump forward in my healing. I hope that is the case for you.

It sounds as if you're certainly processing a lot atm and realising things. That's part of healing too. :yes: 

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Kizzie

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 03:36:48 PM »
 :yeahthat:     :grouphug:

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bluepalm

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Re: PA not usually mentioned for NA.. *TW-PA-EA*
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 10:03:32 PM »
Phoebes, I just want to say thank you for writing what you did. My heart is with you. I understand what you say: "I feel like this combination over such a long time is what literally ruined me into not being able to make decisions, get away, feel worthy, express myself." Yes. This was me too. By my early twenties I felt myself to be utterly without substance or a 'voice'.

And thank you to the others for your supportive comments. The cruelty of telling someone to 'let it go', 'just get over it', never ceases to amaze me. The injury is embedded in our mind, body and soul. It's beyond our willpower to 'let it go'. The process of healing is painful and never-ending and jagged. In my experience it is as Blueberry says, "I find after really rough phases in the present, I jump forward in my healing." I too hope this is the case for you Phoebes.