therapy with a Narc

[Blueberry]

I ran into a male Narc on the retreat. What I'm really calling him in my head is somewhat different However Narc Woman at the two yoga places, Narc Male this time.

Now I understand what I've read over at OOTF about how a Narc will get even an experienced therapist onto their side or will blind this therapist or literally charm them.

The retreat place is a bit difficult to get to without a car so car-pooling not uncommon. I was collected half-way by Narc Male. In hindsight, I should have said "Let's wait till we actually get there" but I knew from what he said that he was pretty experienced in therapy of this type so figured he'd respect general rules of these places, like avoiding advice. NTS: Experience in therapy doesn't mean safe. At some point the conversation turned to the past and family roles and so on. After he'd taken the floor for a while, I mentioned some of mine and he started doing therapy with me, basically. I did stop the conversation but not as early as I needed to. I did some Justifying before that (JADEing = Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain - another acronym from OOTF) not to mention Defending (myself). Narc Male did a lot more of the Arguing (taking the side of FOO) and Explaining (my own reactions to me as well as family systems).  A bit on the late side for my own safety, I said it was time to end the conversation. 

....
I came out of the long weekend and indeed through the weekend in a much better state than even the second time with Narc Woman, and miles better than the first time with N.W. I'm doing fairly well, feel quite stable. 

[Bach]

Congratulations on your progress! It doesn't always feel great, but it's worth it.

[Tee]

  I'm glad you feel better coming out the other side? And you were able to stop him before he railroaded you into a bad place.   

[Not Alone]

Blueberry,

You recognized what was happening, you realized you were JADEing and defending, you put up boundaries. Huge growth. 

[Jazzy]

Great job!

[Snowdrop]

So impressed with how you handled this situation. 

[Anjulie]

 Yes, blueberry, that was really great that you could set boundaries, no matter it was a bit late. You could do it, and so you will be able in the future to do it, too. My experience is: If you get the knack of something then you can do that quicker and quicker.
And what a bad luck you have with that narcissists!!

[Blueberry]

Thank you so much everybody! You all pointed out the most important aspect: I came out the other side and have progressed though doing that. I also came out in a much, much, much better state than when I was railroaded by a bunch of narcs (last time I was with FOO) and of course the two N.W. occasions. It does get easier each time.

The first time I really noticed Narcs, though I didn't know the term at the time, was a run-in with my parents a few years ago. I ended up moving in and out of reality and have no memory of most of it. I ended up on the closed ward for a few days. It took me a further few weeks at home to really come back to earth and to stop it feeling as if parts of me were gliding in and out. Also for me to stop thinking I could be in two different places at once. Yikes. Pretty far along the dissociation spectrum for those few weeks.

Next run-in with FOO, including B1 and SIL2, was way worse because it was all adults in FOO except SIL1 protecting each other, gaslighting etc. etc. But I managed not to dissociate! I didn't end up on the closed ward, or anywhere else of that nature. I actually felt tons of pain and sadness instead and could hardly stop crying for a couple of days and especially nights until I got out of there. I travelled 1500 km home by myself, which hadn't been possible the previous time.

I don't think I managed to set boundaries either of those FOO times. But I did with Narc Woman, much earlier and more forceful by the second time with her too. So yes, I'm getting better at it. This time with Narc Male I was in some amount of emotional distress and feelings of endangerment, but not as much as with Narc Woman.

So thanks everybody for helping me realise it

[Scout]

Listen to your gut--it's there to help you, and it's right. If corrected, it can evolve, but generally you know what you know.

Therapists are not sacred or perfect, the same way parents aren't. You know what you know.

As I've grown stronger, it's easier to hear myself and see these people for what they are, and to improve avoiding them, or saying no. Sometimes we can't, and as we get even stronger I think we can better recover from that, too, like we are slowly building gas masks that let us survive the small mandatory amounts of time where they can't be avoided.

It sucks that it sounds like you were going on a healing retreat, and then these people are everywhere. I think that's just life, and a bummer, but as you get stronger they will matter less.

[MoonBeam]

Hi Blueberry. Just wanted to give a  for your amazing progress and say thank you for sharing your journey. You are an inspiration to me. 

[sanmagic7]

blueberry, having had my own horrific experience w/ a narc t, i'm just sorry you've run into them on retreats, no less! 

i am with everyone else, tho, in giving you so much credit for your progress in recognizing and setting/holding boundaries, and coming out the other side feeling better for having done the retreat.  that is amazing to me, how you did that!  i think i would've flown into an EF before that car ride was over, and it would've soiled my entire weekend experience.  i'm in awe of the progress you've made!  well done!   

thanks for sharing this.  it helped me see the work i still have to do, at the same time giving me a guide as to how to get thru something like this and end up more positive than before.     you are an inspiration.  love and hugs.

[Blueberry]

Thanks all for your replies and cheers.

I decided not to write more about Narc Male or interactions with him for the time-being. Partly I was helped by being able to email the therapist in question after I was back home. That way I felt heard even if she didn't understand totally, and I got it out of my system a bit. 

You're right, Scout, the stronger I get, the less these types of people matter. Annoying, yes, even triggering, but I no longer have to give them headspace for days and weeks on end. A sentence I got to repeat in various stages of the retreat was: "My perceptions are true" and variations like "My feelings are correct".

I know therapists aren't perfect, they're people too etc. etc. but apparently (at least according to experience and wisdom on OutOfTheFog) narcs are good manipulators. They can get people on their side pretty easily, even therapists.

During and after this run-in with Narc Male, memories started coming back up of times when I saw through somebody's behaviour days and even weeks before anybody else did, e.g. one time in inpatient therapy with my roommate. Not to mention years with B1.

[Tee]

Steps forward leaving him behind you.  Good for you.  Glad your were heard.