Out of sorts as a way of life (Ugh) ...

[woodsgnome]

I used to think it was weird -- that I haven't ever been able to live a whole, single day and not slip down a peg, or two or three, from any good vibes I've got going.

It's as if I check good stuff off, as if I'm not  supposed to have those, and that having them is not allowed, for a whole host of reasons. And yet, all of those reasons were planted in my psyche/soul by outside sources, coming under the blanket term of heavy years of abuse from FOO, to schools, to a bunch of ruffians disguised as holy church men (and women).

Toting up a day as leaning, say, 10-20% positive is enough to set what I call a reverse trigger -- I don't feel real unless I feel down or trying to fix a wrong; stuff like that returne me to my steady state.

The point being -- I DON'T WANT THAT ... ever. Yes of course there will probably be setbacks, but why does my life feel incomplete unless I'm suffering?

No answer. Probably best that way. But inspiration is always nice. Anyone? I keep hoping, maybe beyond any reasonable hope, that a corner can still be turned, but defeated and (of course) that only revs up the blame myself engine; and if/if and if fills the regret barrel and can't/can't can't takes care of the future.     

[sanmagic7]

hey, wg,

i truly believe that our bodies/minds get used to abuse, feeling 'out of sorts', suffering, and it is within such a realm that we feel comfortable.  not by choice, but by repetition, habit, and no other way to see or feel the world for too long.

it's just like those i know who have boundaries in place, have a healthy view/perspective of themselves and relationships that if they encounter something abusive, unkind, even 'off', they feel uncomfortable, and take steps to rectify the situation so as to feel positive once again.

when we are used to people around us who do not have our best interests at heart, it sets up an entire dynamic of being used to those feelings of being less than, diminished, denied, swirling in negativity of many types.  it doesn't feel comfortable, trustworthy, or safe to feel any other way.

when i first moved in w/ my d, over a year ago, she and i had some rough patches because of this very dynamic.  she was kind, gentle, and we lived in an area of nature and calm.  i was the one to roil the waters, as it were.  i wasn't used to such an environment.  when she talked to friends about this, wondering if she and i could make a viable co-existence, she was told by several of them that her mom needed time, that i was experiencing an entirely new way of living for the first time in nearly forever.

she hung in there with me, we talked, and a year later we're quite comfy together, laugh a lot, enjoy respect and peace and quiet.  quite different from what i'd been used to for years and years, one environment after another.  but, dang, it was hard for me to trust this, to begin to know that it would be ok, that she would continue to be ok with me, and that i would be ok living with so much less stress.  it was like i was on an alien planet.

i think you're doing a lot of pos., albeit difficult work, wg, and i'm hoping you're finding that slipping down those pegs are getting to be fewer pegs as well as less intense.  this transmutation of ourselves into healthier human beings really is a process, but progress is determined by the little things.  to my mind, even the way you're sharing here on the forum is different - more personal, riskier with your vulnerability.  i see that as progress.

sending love and a hug filled w/ time for healing.

[Bach]

I suffer from a similar thing. I realised a few years ago that I have something that I think of as an emotional autoimmune disease. It's like I'm allergic thoughts of self-love and hope. I noticed one day when I was swimming that I had been thinking pleasant thoughts of how healthy and strong I would get because I had found a way of exercising that I expected to be able to do more enthusiastically and consistently because it felt good and didn't hurt, and that those thoughts made me start thinking "What if?" thoughts. I noticed that I had had an entire conversation happen in my head with the negative voice coming up with a further- and further-out "What if?" every time the positive voice came up with a reasonable response and for a while I was hanging in there, but then I started to waver. I snapped to when I heard the negative voice escalate to global disaster just to take away my excitement at the thought of being able to swim to increase my health and happiness. I remember hearing the anxious voice in my head saying "Well, but what if society collapses and there are no more swimming pools?" and finally starting to get upset and then thinking "Wait a minute, now, WHAT are you thinking?!?", realising how far-out and ridiculous my mental dialogue had gotten, laughing at myself and coming out of it. That was very instructive.

Being aware of the fact that this is a thing that happens in my brain has made me a little less susceptible to it, and a little more able to catch it and derail it before it really gets going when it does start up. It is still a daily challenge, but it is improving with continued awareness.  So don't lose heart!

[Jazzy]

I agree with sanmagic. Our bodies/minds crave what we are accustomed to. With time and effort we can set new norms, but it is a process. If you're having trouble going a whole day, try just keeping your positive vibes going for another hour, or even a few minutes longer than normal. Hope you feel better soon, and make some good progress on this, now that you have it identified. Take care!

[Three Roses]

Woodsgnome, I'm right there with you on this one. I have an appointment with a psychiatrist coming up, I want to ask about going back on an antidepressant (Welbutrin this time) or if I should wait to see if my chemistry will re-adjust after ceasing Prozac.

For the moment I'm riding it out. It's a struggle but within each day there are moments - a pretty flower, the sound of rain, the smell of baking bread or a baby's smile. These days I'm trying to just accept where I am in my journey and just be authentically present, even if that means I'm less happy on a daily basis than I want to be right now.

Standing beside you in this, my friend. 

[woodsgnome]

Thanks, friends. Lots of good insights to mull.

Sanmagic7 -- Indeed, those surrounding clues of those who we thought were caregivers have an astonishing and long-lasting effect on all of this. It's like absorbing a shower and finding out later the water was polluted. You note that over time perhaps my sharing on here has indeed become more vulnerable. I concur and it does make a difference, and is wholly different from the huge shell I'd built way back when for protection. Here I can trust peeking out, even though the old protective masks ever ready should I feel I need them (not as often as formerly).

Bach -- yes, it's exactly like you describe, of seeming allergic to thoughts of self-love and the notion of hope that wants a place, too. The "what if" thoughts pop in constantly; and my mistake is regarding those more highly than my heart's counterintuitive instincts. It's a learning curve, and I get impatient to move faster than life sometimes allows. Until one day, as you shared, a person can gather enough mindfulness (I like to call it 'heartfulness') to see the silly naysaying thoughts for what they are -- just passing thoughts that don't have to take over our already strong selves (even if we don't always realize that). It is a daily challenge and I'm back to hoping that even when it seems like one big battle, that I can prevail; and can give up obsessing about it, too. We'll get there.

Jazzy -- Moving forward can seem so long. We tend to think in these linear ways about time, which adds to the frustration and blows the expectations out of the water. If one learns to condense the time, like you suggest, all is not so dead set against us. My short positive looks can grow, but I have to kickstart them, and remember to keep that up, until perhaps the original habits will be flipped, and none of it will matter so much. While global warming can result from hazardous inputs, so too can mental warming. Then there's the other sort of warming -- heart warming. And that's the warming I'm needing, but not to forget keeping the candle lit even during cool-downs.

Three Roses -- Acceptance is a huge part of this. Riding it out, as you say, while also knowing that it's a pretty large project to turn ourselves around in a hurry. It can begin to feel like being turned inside-out, and sometimes it can be aided by medications as well. Either way, it's still the inside work that determines what's up with being so down, and how indeed self-love and care (also very new to me) don't just show up intact, but result from our unique path across the barrens at the edge of meaning. That all sounds lofty, but the loftiest are indeed those moments -- the patter or rain, the flowering world, aromas of cooking, all those sensory things that put oomph into the hackneyed phrase 'living in the moment'. But they're there, at some point every day, and it's up to us to notice, absorb, and apply what we can through the up-down pace we thing we have to pay attention. Those moments of peace point out a different, alternative path.

Inevitably, we ride these moments alone. Here we can also share and find comfort from our loneliness, for sure; but also joy in the creative ways of finding our way home -- again, or for the first time.

So here's to everyone here -----------------
               

[Three Roses]

So here's to everyone here -----------------
               

[SharpAndBlunt]

Dear woodsgnome,

Your topic had been in my thoughts since I read it and I've not been able to formulate a reply. What I think your post speaks to me of is, the notion of cptsd being an injury.

You have heard of the expression "Pain is just the body's way of telling us that something is wrong"? Pain is a way of the body signalling to the brain that something is wrong, physically.

Bring continually "out of sorts" can be seen, I think, as the psyche's way of communicating to us that something is "wrong". Emotions can get in the way of processing these wrongs, at least until it feels safe. We might be aware that something is wrong, we need much time to process, so we can't immediately heal.

That doesn't mean that we want to be injured, any more than having a cast on our leg means we want to have a broken leg. With a broken leg we still need to care for it e.g. use a crutch, keep weight off it etc. Even although we don't want to be out of sorts we still have to care for it and tend to it. Having to deal with the injury falls to us and its not something we choose. It takes time because it is hard, and it runs deep.

[Kizzie]

Woods, I just had a thought as I read this that what if you are protecting yourself, b/c if good things come and then get taken away again it will just be too much?    Maybe that's simplistic but thought I'd share it anyway.

The other thought I had was that being positive, happy, joyous, optimistic, happy, calm .... are not normal states for those of us who were abused as kids. We don't know what that feels like b/c we were never in that state if the trauma started at birth. To move into something we don't know, aren't familiar with can be threatening, frightening ....  Half a thought there again but wanted to post in case it resonates.

[Bach]

Woods, I just had a thought as I read this that what if you are protecting yourself, b/c if good things come and then get taken away again it will just be too much?    Maybe that's simplistic but thought I'd share it anyway.

The other thought I had was that being positive, happy, joyous, optimistic, happy, calm .... are not normal states for those of us who were abused as kids. We don't know what that feels like b/c we were never in that state if the trauma started at birth. To move into something we don't know, aren't familiar with can be threatening, frightening ....  Half a thought there again but wanted to post in case it resonates.

Both of those thoughts resonate with me.  It really hurts to have to accept that.  I can improve but only so much, because some of what I want most in the world was left out of my programming.

[Jazzy]

I just keep working on improving, and hopefully things keep getting better. Maybe one day you will get what you most want Bach, even if it is out of your programming... maybe you can learn it another way.

[woodsgnome]

All of the encouragement here has been sorely needed. Thank you!!!. 

My confusion can sometimes get out of hand and knock me over. The fact that the old way crossed over dreadful inner torments didn't help. Until I risk looking around -- and realize I'm not actually in that old place anymore. But I still carry wounds from the injuries encountered there.

The injuries are, if not fully healed, free from becoming a repetitive injury IF I can transform into accepting the impossibility of returning to undo any of the implanted hurts.

There is one way, though, that I find rather appealing -- returning through the power of imagination, as can happen when delving into inner child work. Naysayers are prone to laugh at that as wishful thinking, disregarding the result -- the wish can soothe one's present self, which is the whole point, as far as real outcomes are concerned.

Some call this attitudinal healing. While the wounds were inflicted and can't be repaired, the subsequent attitudes can. It's not like donning rose-colored glasses, it's more like taking them off and seeing with entirely new eyes.

I can choose to view my daily ups/downs swathed in sadness, or I can know that this might just be a temporary condition; and that I really have entered a new road. With speed bumps, yes; but my inner road crew, headed by Heart, is working to remove those, as I speak.

My form of wishcraft, perhaps; revolutionary, too -- yet it's what may be most necessary while striving to find and absorb the attitudinal healing that now points to the new road, past the lingering pain and doubt.

If that's even slightly true, it's enough to put truth to these favourite lines from an old, revived song: Morning has Broken.

[sanmagic7]

wg, i'm in the process of re-scripting my childhood, which sounds something like what you're speaking about.  i am imagining that things were different, giving that scenario to myself at the age where it happened, and am, in fact, feeling better in the now because of it.  no, it's not real, i can't really return, have my parents, whoever, actually 'fix' what happened, but our minds are incredible at imagining and responding in kind.

i heard this recently - a t tells his clients, when they speak to this as just being all in their minds, to imagine biting into a lemon, and notice what happens with their mouth.  our minds can help us mend unimaginable hurts thru the imagining of mending them.  i hope that makes sense, and also that it's on par with what you're speaking about.

getting into our reality, but using our minds as a tool for change - well, as far as i'm concerned, it's do-able.  just like becoming a different character on stage, we can then 'feel' what that imaginary person/animal/thing is going thru, and respond accordingly.  i hope you keep up this difficult but, to my mind, extremely productive work.   you are sounding more hopeful, and i'm really glad of that.   i have faith in you.  sending love and a hug filled w/ courage.

[Bach]

woodsgnome, thank you for making this thread.  It has been so interesting and helpful to read other experiences with this kind of problem.  I'm glad to see that you're feeling encouraged by the discussion.  I am, too.  Aside from how it is always encouraging and comforting to know that I'm not alone, what you said above about the imagination and inner child work was really good for me to hear.  Especially this:

Naysayers are prone to laugh at that as wishful thinking, disregarding the result -- the wish can soothe one's present self, which is the whole point, as far as real outcomes are concerned.

In the past, I have been that naysayer.  I feel a lot of shame and reluctance around things that feel like an attempt to fictionalise my experiences, and so I have always been extremely leery of inner child work and have not permitted myself much in the way of that kind of thinking.  Recently, though, I've been exploring it here, and it feels promising, so having an answer to that naysaying is powerful for me. 

[Not Alone]

That doesn't mean that we want to be injured, any more than having a cast on our leg means we want to have a broken leg. With a broken leg we still need to care for it e.g. use a crutch, keep weight off it etc. Even although we don't want to be out of sorts we still have to care for it and tend to it. Having to deal with the injury falls to us and its not something we choose. It takes time because it is hard, and it runs deep.

S&B: This is a really good way to look at it. I'm a visual learner, so this is helpful to me. Thanks.